[Athen] Athen Digest, Vol 11, Issue 17

[Saroj Primlani]

Very interesting article on the dev-accessiblity list about IAccessibile2
which is a extension of MSAA that shows great promise
I have cut and pasted the original message

Saroj

-----Original Message-----
From: dev-accessibility-bounces at lists.mozilla.org
[mailto:dev-accessibility-bounces at lists.mozilla.org] On Behalf Of Aaron
Leventhal
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 3:59 PM
To: dev-accessibility at lists.mozilla.org
Subject: Introducing IAccessible2: an evolutionary accessibility API

IBM and the Free Standards Group (FSG), today announced IBM's donation of a
new accessibility API, called IAccessible2, to the Free Standards Group.

** Why a new API?

The need for the development of this new accessibility API was clear:
1) Crucial features added: the first generation Windows accessibility API,
called MSAA or IAccessible, lacked crucial features, such as support for the
caret and selection, accessible relations, rich text editing, multiple
actions and many other features necessary for quality support in assistive
technologies.
2) Accessibility efforts preserved: an
evolutionary path was needed for applications which already had MSAA
(IAccessible) support, to support these new features. Rather than throw away
the MSAA support that applications already had, it was considered less
expensive for both applications and assistive technologies to grow new
solutions on top of today's code.
3) Harmonized with other platforms: an API was needed that did not require
separate accessibility implementations for each platform. The amount of
different code between the ATK/AT-SPI implementations for UNIX
accessibility, and
IAccessible2 implementations, will be minimized, thus saving resources.

This API draft was developed with consultation from a number of groups,
including assistive technology vendors, application developers from Mozilla
(Aaron Leventhal), developers working on ODF accessibility, and others.

** What is IAccessible2?

With the new API, an assistive technology will be able to QueryInterface
from an IAccessible*, to IAccessible2*, and to any other supported
interfaces.

The IAccessible2 interface itself collects important ATK features from other
areas, as well some completely new methods and features. These tend to be
methods that you may need on any object. For the most part, features were
added either to bring Windows capabilities up to the level of ATK/AT-SPI, or
in order to support the features of ARIA (previously known of DHTML
accessibility). For more information on ARIA, see the links at the end of
this email.

There are also specialized interfaces which are used only on objects with
the given capabilities of that interface. These interfaces generally have a
very close equivalent under ATK.  In the following list of interface
matchups, ATK interfaces are prefaced with "Atk" and
IAccessible2 are prefaced with "IAccessible":

AtkText ~= IAccessibleText
AtkEditableText ~= IAccessibleEditableText AtkHyperText ~=
IAccessibleHyperText AtkHyperlink ~= IAccessibleHyperlink AtkImage ~=
IAccessibleImage AtkTable  ~= IAccessibleTable AtkAction ~=
IAccessibleAction AtkValue ~= IAccessibleValue AtkRelation ~=
IAccessibleRelation

That should give a rough idea that what we're doing is expanding MSAA while
matching ATK/AT-SPI to a very helpful degree.

For more detail than that, please see the draft interfaces, available here:
http://accessibility.freestandards.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/

** How does IAccessible2 help Mozilla?

1) Support AJAX applications. for example, we will now have the ability to
provide any information necessary for completely accessible live regions.
There are features for the deliver of advanced ARIA features, such as
extensible roles, relations and actions.
2) Support selection and caret. this will help with features such as "select
and say" in Dragon Naturally Speaking -- which is currently not supported.
It will also remove the need for screen reader hacks to find the caret.
Currently, Windows screen readers must replace the video driver on the
system and look for screen draws of vertical blinking lines. Over the long
term, IAccessible2 is a rich API that will simplify screen reader
maintenance, and it will minimize interference with the low level drivers on
end user systems. It will also help provide much better screen reader
support for rich text editing.
3) Maximize code reuse. in the summer of this year (2006), we moved most of
the ATK/AT-SPI support code out of the Linux-only files into a
cross-platform area. The code now supports ATK, but it is ready to help
support the IAccessible2 interfaces.

** When will Mozilla support IAccessible2?

It is expected that Mozilla will be able to deliver basic IAccessible2
support in the Gecko
1.9 / Firefox 3 time frame (something like Q3 2007).

Because it is backwards-compatible with MSAA, the current support of Windows
screen readers and other assistive technologies for Firefox will continue to
work. However, the new capabilities will be exposed, and newer  assistive
technologies will be able to take advantage of them.

Where can I learn more about IAccessible2?
1) FSG IAccessible2 Home Page:
http://www.freestandards.org/en/Accessibility/IAccessible2
2) IBM Announcement on IAccessible2:
http://www.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/20773.wss
3) Showing the Accessibility Way: IBM Contributes Project Missouri to the
Free Standards Group by Andy Updegrove:
http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20061214050334
512
4) IBM project aims to help blind use ODF applications - InfoWorld:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/12/13/HNibmblindodf_1.html
5) IAccessible2 announcement in Japanese:
http://release.nikkei.co.jp/detail.cfm?relID=148610&lindID=1

Where can I learn more about ARIA and
accessibility for rich internet applications?
1) Roadmap for Accessible Rich Internet Applications (ARIA Roadmap):
http://www.w3.org/TR/aria-roadmap/
2) Roles for Accessible Rich Internet Applications (ARIA Roles):
http://www.w3.org/TR/aria-role/
3) States and Properties Module for Accessible Rich Internet Applications
(ARIA States and
Properties): http://www.w3.org/TR/aria-state/
4) Mozilla ARIA documentation:
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Accessible_DHTML

Where do I learn more about ATK, AT-SPI and UNIX/Linux accessibility in
general?
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/

Where do I learn more about Mozilla's
accessibility work in general?
http://www.mozilla.org/access/

This is an exciting time. A number of people worked very hard on this API,
and as the press release indicates, a number of organizations have come out
to declare support.

At the same time, in the Mozilla open community tradition, I'd like hear all
kinds of feedback -- praise, questions and concerns.

Thank you,

Aaron Leventhal
IBM web accessibility architect
Mozilla accessibility lead
_______________________________________________
dev-accessibility mailing list
dev-accessibility at lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility






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> Today's Topics:

>

>    1. Re: Dragon and training (Ed. Rosenthal)

>    2. Re: Dragon and training (Stacy L. Smith)

>    3. Re: Dragon and training (Wink Harner)

>    4. Re: Dragon and training (Ed. Rosenthal)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:44:17 -0800

> From: "Ed. Rosenthal" <edward at ngtvoice.com>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

> To: "'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'"

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <002d01c71f19$00f52de0$0859183f at eros>

> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

>

> Yes, you need to use a .bin  file format and place it in the same

> locationas

> the other DNS .bin files. They must contain only words already in the DNS

> vocabulary.

>

> But with DNS 9 you can skip the training with good success. -ed.

>

> Yours Sincerely, Edward S. Rosenthal, ATACP Graduate

> President and CEO, Next Generation Technologies, Inc.

> 20006 Cedar Valley Rd. #101, Lynnwood, Wa. 98036.

> EM: edward at ngtvoice.com    WWW: www.ngtvoice.com

> PH: 425-744-1100 ext. 15        FX: 425-778-5547

>

> This document was generated using handwriting input on a Motion LE 1600

> Tablet and/or Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional Solutions 8.1 speech

> recognition technology (please disregard any odd formatting or remaining

> misrecognitions).

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On

> Behalf Of White, Phillip B.

> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:24 AM

> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

>

> Consider using one of the transcribers working with the deaf students in

> your classes.  They could type the whole thing pretty quickly.

>

> Phillip White

> Adaptive Technology Coordinator

> Cal State University los Angeels

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On

> Behalf Of Stacy L. Smith

> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:26 AM

> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

> Subject: [Athen] Dragon and training

>

> Does anyone know if it's possible to *create* a training script for

> Dragon?

>

> I'm transcribing a recorded lecture from an instructor, and thought I'd

> give

> Dragon a whirl -- even if I only get 50% recognition, I'm ahead of

> starting

> from scratch.  The problem is that I doubt I can get the instructor to

> leave

> her grading long enough to create a profile.  I'd like to use a transcript

> we've already created to train the program.

>

> Is this even *remotely* possible?

>

> Thanks,

> Stacy

>

> Stacy Smith

> Adaptive Technology Specialist, Disability Support Services

> 532-6441

> stacylee at ksu.edu

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art

> of

> Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to

> train.

>

> --Morehei Ueshiba

>

> _______________________________________________

> Athen mailing list

> Athen at athenpro.org

> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>

> _______________________________________________

> Athen mailing list

> Athen at athenpro.org

> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:38:45 -0600

> From: "Stacy L. Smith" <stacylee at ksu.edu>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <1166060325.4580ab25a22ad at webmail.ksu.edu>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>

> It doesn't want to let me set up a recorded user without training....is

> there something I'm missing?

>

> Thanks for the help -

>

> Stacy

>

> Quoting "Ed. Rosenthal" <edward at ngtvoice.com>:

>

>> Yes, you need to use a .bin  file format and place it in the same

>> locationas

>> the other DNS .bin files. They must contain only words already in the

>> DNS

>> vocabulary.

>>

>> But with DNS 9 you can skip the training with good success. -ed.

>>

>> Yours Sincerely, Edward S. Rosenthal, ATACP Graduate

>> President and CEO, Next Generation Technologies, Inc.

>> 20006 Cedar Valley Rd. #101, Lynnwood, Wa. 98036.

>> EM: edward at ngtvoice.com    WWW: www.ngtvoice.com

>> PH: 425-744-1100 ext. 15        FX: 425-778-5547

>>

>> This document was generated using handwriting input on a Motion LE

>> 1600

>> Tablet and/or Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional Solutions 8.1

>> speech

>> recognition technology (please disregard any odd formatting or

>> remaining

>> misrecognitions).

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org]

>> On

>> Behalf Of White, Phillip B.

>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:24 AM

>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

>>

>> Consider using one of the transcribers working with the deaf students

>> in

>> your classes.  They could type the whole thing pretty quickly.

>>

>> Phillip White

>> Adaptive Technology Coordinator

>> Cal State University los Angeels

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org]

>> On

>> Behalf Of Stacy L. Smith

>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:26 AM

>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>> Subject: [Athen] Dragon and training

>>

>> Does anyone know if it's possible to *create* a training script for

>> Dragon?

>>

>> I'm transcribing a recorded lecture from an instructor, and thought

>> I'd give

>> Dragon a whirl -- even if I only get 50% recognition, I'm ahead of

>> starting

>> from scratch.  The problem is that I doubt I can get the instructor

>> to leave

>> her grading long enough to create a profile.  I'd like to use a

>> transcript

>> we've already created to train the program.

>>

>> Is this even *remotely* possible?

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Stacy

>>

>> Stacy Smith

>> Adaptive Technology Specialist, Disability Support Services

>> 532-6441

>> stacylee at ksu.edu

>>

>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>

>> One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the

>> Art of

>> Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place

>> to

>> train.

>>

>> --Morehei Ueshiba

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Athen mailing list

>> Athen at athenpro.org

>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Athen mailing list

>> Athen at athenpro.org

>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Athen mailing list

>> Athen at athenpro.org

>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>

>>

>

>

> Stacy Smith

> Adaptive Technology Specialist, Disability Support Services

> 532-6441

> stacylee at ksu.edu

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the

> Art of

> Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place

> to

> train.

>

> --Morehei Ueshiba

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:41:19 -0700

> From: "Wink Harner" <wink.harner at mcmail.maricopa.edu>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

> To: "Access Technologists in Higher Education Network"

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <45791D9500000DBF at email3.dist.maricopa.edu>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>

> HI Stacy,

>

> It's probably asking you to set the noise level from the environment, set

> the input level on the mike and set the recording quality level. It's not

> training as such. Really amounts to a standard "mike check" you would do

> on the stage before a performance (tick tick tick,

> "one-two-three-four...is

> this thing ON???" sort of test. You should then get a screen with an

> option

> to skip the introduction and other training.

>

> Another really good thing to check on the tools menu is to look for the

> "import

> vocabulary" --the program can mine your (the professor's) document & email

> files for vocabulary & writing style and import directly to DNS. Gives

> much

> faster, much more accurate recognition up front.

>

> Does this answer your questions?

>

> Let me know --I'm quite proficient on Dragon!

>

> Blessings in abundance,

>

> Ms. Wink Harner

> Manager

> Disability Resources & Services

> Mesa Community College

> Mesa, AZ

>

>

>>-- Original Message --

>>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:38:45 -0600

>>From: "Stacy L. Smith" <stacylee at ksu.edu>

>>To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network <athen at athenpro.org>

>>Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

>>Reply-To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>> <athen at athenpro.org>

>>

>>

>>It doesn't want to let me set up a recorded user without training....is

>>there something I'm missing?

>>

>>Thanks for the help -

>>

>>Stacy

>>

>>Quoting "Ed. Rosenthal" <edward at ngtvoice.com>:

>>

>>> Yes, you need to use a .bin  file format and place it in the same

>>> locationas

>>> the other DNS .bin files. They must contain only words already in the

>>> DNS

>>> vocabulary.

>>>

>>> But with DNS 9 you can skip the training with good success. -ed.

>>>

>>> Yours Sincerely, Edward S. Rosenthal, ATACP Graduate

>>> President and CEO, Next Generation Technologies, Inc.

>>> 20006 Cedar Valley Rd. #101, Lynnwood, Wa. 98036.

>>> EM: edward at ngtvoice.com    WWW: www.ngtvoice.com

>>> PH: 425-744-1100 ext. 15        FX: 425-778-5547

>>>

>>> This document was generated using handwriting input on a Motion LE

>>> 1600

>>> Tablet and/or Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional Solutions 8.1

>>> speech

>>> recognition technology (please disregard any odd formatting or

>>> remaining

>>> misrecognitions).

>>>

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org]

>>> On

>>> Behalf Of White, Phillip B.

>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:24 AM

>>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

>>>

>>> Consider using one of the transcribers working with the deaf students

>>> in

>>> your classes.  They could type the whole thing pretty quickly.

>>>

>>> Phillip White

>>> Adaptive Technology Coordinator

>>> Cal State University los Angeels

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org]

>>> On

>>> Behalf Of Stacy L. Smith

>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:26 AM

>>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>>> Subject: [Athen] Dragon and training

>>>

>>> Does anyone know if it's possible to *create* a training script for

>>> Dragon?

>>>

>>> I'm transcribing a recorded lecture from an instructor, and thought

>>> I'd give

>>> Dragon a whirl -- even if I only get 50% recognition, I'm ahead of

>>> starting

>>> from scratch.  The problem is that I doubt I can get the instructor

>>> to leave

>>> her grading long enough to create a profile.  I'd like to use a

>>> transcript

>>> we've already created to train the program.

>>>

>>> Is this even *remotely* possible?

>>>

>>> Thanks,

>>> Stacy

>>>

>>> Stacy Smith

>>> Adaptive Technology Specialist, Disability Support Services

>>> 532-6441

>>> stacylee at ksu.edu

>>>

>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>>

>>> One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the

>>> Art of

>>> Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place

>>> to

>>> train.

>>>

>>> --Morehei Ueshiba

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Athen mailing list

>>> Athen at athenpro.org

>>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Athen mailing list

>>> Athen at athenpro.org

>>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Athen mailing list

>>> Athen at athenpro.org

>>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>Stacy Smith

>>Adaptive Technology Specialist, Disability Support Services

>>532-6441

>>stacylee at ksu.edu

>>

>>~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>

>>One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the

>>Art of

>>Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place

>>to

>>train.

>>

>>--Morehei Ueshiba

>>

>>_______________________________________________

>>Athen mailing list

>>Athen at athenpro.org

>>http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>

> Ms. Wink Harner

> Manager

> Disability Resources & Services

> Mesa Community College

> Mesa AZ

>

> 480-461-7447

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 4

> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:21:25 -0800

> From: "Ed. Rosenthal" <edward at ngtvoice.com>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

> To: "'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'"

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <00a601c71f8b$2a74c780$934c183f at eros>

> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

>

> Stacy-you are right, the recorder profile requires training. However you

> can

> use a regular .wav profile (i.e. microphone) and then have the recorder

> software convert to.wav on download which will eliminate the need  for

> training.  -ed.

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On

> Behalf Of Stacy L. Smith

> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:39 PM

> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

>

> It doesn't want to let me set up a recorded user without training....is

> there something I'm missing?

>

> Thanks for the help -

>

> Stacy

>

> Quoting "Ed. Rosenthal" <edward at ngtvoice.com>:

>

>> Yes, you need to use a .bin  file format and place it in the same

>> locationas the other DNS .bin files. They must contain only words

>> already in the DNS vocabulary.

>>

>> But with DNS 9 you can skip the training with good success. -ed.

>>

>> Yours Sincerely, Edward S. Rosenthal, ATACP Graduate President and

>> CEO, Next Generation Technologies, Inc.

>> 20006 Cedar Valley Rd. #101, Lynnwood, Wa. 98036.

>> EM: edward at ngtvoice.com    WWW: www.ngtvoice.com

>> PH: 425-744-1100 ext. 15        FX: 425-778-5547

>>

>> This document was generated using handwriting input on a Motion LE

>> 1600 Tablet and/or Dragon NaturallySpeaking Professional Solutions 8.1

>> speech recognition technology (please disregard any odd formatting or

>> remaining misrecognitions).

>>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org]

>> On

>> Behalf Of White, Phillip B.

>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:24 AM

>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Dragon and training

>>

>> Consider using one of the transcribers working with the deaf students

>> in your classes.  They could type the whole thing pretty quickly.

>>

>> Phillip White

>> Adaptive Technology Coordinator

>> Cal State University los Angeels

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org]

>> On

>> Behalf Of Stacy L. Smith

>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:26 AM

>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>> Subject: [Athen] Dragon and training

>>

>> Does anyone know if it's possible to *create* a training script for

>> Dragon?

>>

>> I'm transcribing a recorded lecture from an instructor, and thought

>> I'd give Dragon a whirl -- even if I only get 50% recognition, I'm

>> ahead of starting from scratch.  The problem is that I doubt I can get

>> the instructor to leave her grading long enough to create a profile.

>> I'd like to use a transcript we've already created to train the

>> program.

>>

>> Is this even *remotely* possible?

>>

>> Thanks,

>> Stacy

>>

>> Stacy Smith

>> Adaptive Technology Specialist, Disability Support Services

>> 532-6441

>> stacylee at ksu.edu

>>

>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>

>> One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the

>> Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the

>> place to train.

>>

>> --Morehei Ueshiba

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Athen mailing list

>> Athen at athenpro.org

>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Athen mailing list

>> Athen at athenpro.org

>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Athen mailing list

>> Athen at athenpro.org

>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>

>>

>

>

> Stacy Smith

> Adaptive Technology Specialist, Disability Support Services

> 532-6441

> stacylee at ksu.edu

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art

> of

> Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to

> train.

>

> --Morehei Ueshiba

>

> _______________________________________________

> Athen mailing list

> Athen at athenpro.org

> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> _______________________________________________

> Athen mailing list

> Athen at athenpro.org

> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>

>

> End of Athen Digest, Vol 11, Issue 17

> *************************************

>