[Athen] Athen Digest, Vol 13, Issue 11

[Saroj Primlani]

While S5 is great way to create a presentation on the web it is not really
accessible with Jaws as all the keystrokes needed to move the presentation
forward are defined by Jaws to perform dfferent functions.  I learnt that
the hard way
Saroj


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> Today's Topics:

>

>    1. Re: Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC (Ron Stewart)

>    2. Re: javascript help

>       (John Foliot - Stanford Online Accessibility Program)

>    3. Re: javascript help (Sean Keegan)

>    4. Re: Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC (Sean Keegan)

>    5. Re: javascript help (Terry Thompson)

>    6. Re: Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

>       (Kilcommons,Cath)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:50:16 -0500

> From: "Ron Stewart" <ron.stewart at dolphinusa.com>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

> To: <skeegan at htctu.net>, "'Access Technologists in Higher Education

> 	Network'"	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <00b701c74c8b$ecc99ef0$c65cdcd0$@stewart at dolphinusa.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

>

> Interesting and timely conversation, I just had a meeting with a group

> that

> is looking at developing a DAISY like tool for PPT like content.

>

> Ron

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On

> Behalf Of Sean Keegan

> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:03 PM

> To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

>

>> A larger problem is getting widespread acceptance

>> among all the PowerPoint users on your campus.

>

> This has actually been the biggest challenge with many I communicate with

> in

> our system with respect to changing the direction of publishing Web

> presentations on-line.  A few are interested in the open-source/free tools

> (Meyer's S5 in particular), but the learning curve is not shallow (be

> careful not to delete one of those <divs> in the S5 code!) and PowerPoint

> does provide a user interface that makes it easy to work with content.  I

> am

> not saying it is the *right* interface, just that it makes it easy for

> users.

>

> Unfortunately, I do not think the free tools are mature enough for the

> majority of users.  You have basic control over the "look" of the

> presentation as well as reorganizing content, but certainly not to the

> degree that is available in PPT.  Until someone at MS integrates an a true

> standards-compliant (and accessible) Web export option to PPT, I think we

> will be looking at purchasing different tools.  Believe me, I am in

> support

> of the development of an open-source/free tool and I agree with Terry that

> it is a solvable problem, but it will have to compete with current PPT

> application functionality to really gain acceptance and utilization.

>

> Take care,

> Sean

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On

> Behalf Of Terry Thompson

> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 8:51 AM

> To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

>

> I've tried a variety of PowerPoint conversion tools, as well as

> alternatives

> to PowerPoint. Some of my experiments are documented here:

>

> http://staff.washington.edu/tft/talks/powerpoint/index.html

>

> I agree that LecShare is a good option. However, if it's free/open source

> you're after, I think the best strategy is for you to help promote and

> advance the standards-based alternatives to PowerPoint. Tools like W3C

> Slidy

> (and other W3C slide tools) and Eric Meyer's S5 allow you to produce

> slides

> as a single standards-based, cross-platform, well-structured, scalable,

> portable XHTML file; then apply CSS and Javascript to it in order to get

> the

> slideshow effect.

>

> As promising as this sounds, none of the standards-compliant slide

> presentations work well at this point with screen readers because of the

> way

> their Javascript hijacks user keystrokes for slide control. I think this

> is

> a solvable problem though, especially for someone with creativity,

> programming skills, and a strong interest (you still reading this, Kevin?)

> A

> larger problem is getting widespread acceptance among all the PowerPoint

> users on your campus. My son's in third grade and he's already being

> tought

> to use Microsoft PowerPoint.

>

> Some links:

>

> W3C Slide Tools:

> http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/

>

> Eric Meyer's S5:

> http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/

>

> I presented on this topic at Accessing Higher Ground, and will be doing so

> again at CSUN:

>

> PowerPoint & Friends: Accessible Slides on the Web Wed 3/21/07,

> 2:50-3:50pm

> Hilton-Carmel

>

> Terry

>

> Terry Thompson

> Technology Specialist, DO-IT

> University of Washington

> tft at u.washington.edu

> 206/221-4168

> http://www.washington.edu/doit

>

>

>

>

>

>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org

>> [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On Behalf Of E.A. Draffan

>> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 7:47 AM

>> To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'

>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

>>

>> PowerTalk (http://tinyurl.com/2xrkj4) is the only add on that

>> may help some folk listen to their PowerPoints that I know is

>> open source.  I have given it to a student who was concerned

>> about their stammer but it does not solve your problem and I

>> was trying to look for my old Illinois download but I am

>> not sure it would work with the latest versions of Office.

>> I have always

>> exported my outlines to text format but am now including more

>> and more Flash screen animations and will have to explain these.

>>

>> Best Wishes E.A.

>>

>> Mrs E.A. Draffan

>> Assistive Technologist

>> Mobile: 07976 289103

>> http://www.emptech.info/

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org

>> [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On Behalf Of Sesock, Kevin A

>> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 2:48 PM

>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

>>

>> Thanks all, I'll give LecShare a try, but I'm still slightly

>> peeved that I'm going to have to find even more money

>> elsewhere just to be able to do this.

>>

>> I suppose it's the principle of the thing.

>>

>> Anyone know of any Open Source projects to accomplish this same thing?

>> I've asked before elsewhere, but as that was quite some time

>> ago, I had hopedthat someone else would have gotten to work

>> on a solution.

>>

>> Anyway, thanks all.

>>

>> Kevin A. Sesock, A+, Net+, CNA, MCSA

>> Assistive Technology Specialist

>> Student Disability Services

>> Division of Student Affairs

>> Oklahoma State University

>>

>> http://access.it.okstate.edu

>>

>> "Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has

>> understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org

>> [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On Behalf Of Stacy L. Smith

>> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 8:35 AM

>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network;

>> Berkowitz, Daniel J

>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

>>

>> I've been using LecShare and love it.  (www.lecshare.com)

>>

>> Doesn't Flash put the captions over the slide itself?  (In

>> other words, your captioning may be covering part of the text

>> of the slide.)  There was a presentation on PPT at the Higher

>> Ground Conference....should be on your CD if you purchased one.

>>

>> Stacy

>>

>> Quoting "Berkowitz, Daniel J" <djbrky at bu.edu>:

>>

>> > I'll echo Sean. I saw a demo of LecShare at Accessing Higher Ground

>> > and picked up a copy on the spot. Given the price it was

>> worth getting

>>

>> > a copy to try out. I have used it to create accessible version of

>> > PPT's for many presentations - including this one:

>> > http://www.colorado.edu/atconference/etext_production.htm

>> > <http://www.colorado.edu/atconference/etext_production.htm>

>> >

>> > It's a good basic program that does what it promises.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > =========================

>> > Daniel Berkowitz - Assistant Director

>> > Boston University Office of Disability Services

>> > 19 Deerfield Street, 2nd floor

>> > Boston, MA 02215

>> >

>> > (617) 353-3658 (office)

>> > (617) 353-9646 (fax)

>> > djbrky at bu.edu <mailto:djbrky at bu.edu>  (eMail) www.bu.edu/disability

>> >

>> > ________________________________

>> >

>> > From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org on behalf of Sean Keegan

>> > Sent: Thu 2/8/2007 12:46 PM

>> > To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'

>> > Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In

>> That's NOT UIUC

>> >

>> >

>> > Hi Kevin,

>> >

>> > You may want to check out LecShare.  Similar in concept

>> (different in

>> > technical functionality), LecShare can take a PPT file and

>> convert it

>> > to several different accessible formats.  Their higher end product

>> > LecShare Pro can also support the addition of voice media to slides

>> > (and do some basic automated captioning).  Site is:

>> > http://www.lecshare.com

>> >

>> > Take a look at the trial version - it is fully functioning and just

>> > embeds a LecShare watermark on each exported format so that

>> you do not

>>

>> > use the trial version for prime time.  Works for Macs and

>> PCs, so that

>>

>> > is a nice feature.  Currently it only works with PowerPoint

>> files, so

>> > if you are looking for Word or Excel support, then it is the Office

>> > Export Wizard (aka Accessible Web Publishing Wizard).

>> >

>> > I have also had a number of faculty approach me regarding

>> the use of

>> > Camtasia to deliver PPT content (obviously a more expensive

>> solution).

>>

>> > The result is just a Flash video of the presentation with a

>> voice-over

>>

>> > narration (this is somewhat similar to one of the exports

>> of LecShare

>> > Pro also does).  The current version of Camtasia also

>> provides a tool

>> > for captioning the presentation.  It does appear to have many

>> > customization options, but I am looking into this a bit more.

>> > Probably not exactly what you are looking for, but it is something

>> > that more faculty appear to be doing.

>> >

>> > Take care,

>> > Sean

>> >

>> >

>> > ________________________________

>> >

>> > From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org]

>> > On Behalf Of Sesock, Kevin A

>> > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 9:10 AM

>> > To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network

>> > Subject: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

>> >

>> >

>> > There are a few who have been witness to my complaints about the

>> > University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign's Office Export Wizard

>> > plug-in. I'm not going to get into that now (if anyone is

>> interested,

>> > mail me for a sample tirade off-list), but I do need a good

>> > alternative to convert Powerpoint and other Office documents to an

>> > accessible HTML alternative.

>> >

>> > Up until 1.06, the Illinois tool was free and didn't nag or

>> annoy, and

>>

>> > if anyone has that version, that would be helpful (I have lost my

>> > copy), otherwise, anyone have other recommendations?

>> >

>> > Kevin A. Sesock, A+, Net+, CNA, MCSA

>> > Assistive Technology Specialist

>> > Student Disability Services

>> > Division of Student Affairs

>> > Oklahoma State University

>> >

>> > http://access.it.okstate.edu <http://access.it.okstate.edu/>

>> >

>> > "Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has

>> > understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin

>> >

>> >

>> > _______________________________________________

>> > Athen mailing list

>> > Athen at athenpro.org

>> > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>> Stacy Smith

>> Adaptive Technology Specialist

>> Disability Support Services

>> 202 Holton Hall

>> Kansas State University

>> Manhattan, KS  66506

>> Phone:  785-532-6441

>> FAX:  785-532-6457

>> Email:  stacylee at ksu.edu

>>

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>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 12:52:33 -0800

> From: "John Foliot - Stanford Online Accessibility Program"

> 	<jfoliot at stanford.edu>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] javascript help

> To: "'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'"

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <004c01c74c8c$3bfa72b0$5a8e40ab at Piglet>

> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

>

> Kilcommons,Cath wrote:

>> Hi Stacy,

>> Have you seen http://www.webaim.org/techniques/javascript/summary.php?

>> This article also makes some very good points:

>> http://www.accessiblecontent.com/online/v1n2/index.php?view=toc.

>> With the use of the libraries, I wonder if they are moving towards

>> AJAX? John Foliot has compiled some really good references on AJAX at

>> http://soap.stanford.edu/show.php?contentid=65.

>> We always emphasize that the JS must degrade gracefully, and should

>> be the icing on the cake.  I also have a handout from one of our

>> Professional Development Institute that I will try to get a copy of

>> for you.

>

> I can also add that for the most part the Yahoo! JavaScript libraries

> [http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/] are "pretty good".  I know and meet with

> the accessibility folks there on a semi-regular basis, and they test all

> of

> their scripts for access issues prior to releasing them for public

> consumption.  As always, your mileage may vary, and not every JS function

> will be 100% accessible, but Yahoo! have a strong commitment to accessible

> development, and accessibility in general (<scoop> watch for some new

> Yahoo!

> Messenger avatars to be released later this month</scoop>). Done properly

> (i.e."progressive enhancement") you should be in pretty good shape.

>

> If you are interested I can connect you with their team - contact me off

> list and I will make the introductions.

>

> Cheers!

>

> JF

> ---

> John Foliot

> Academic Technology Consultant

> Stanford Online Accessibility Program

> http://soap.stanford.edu

> Stanford University

> 560 Escondido Mall

> Meyer Library 181

> Stanford, CA 94305-3093

> Tel: 650-862-4603

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:52:15 -0800

> From: "Sean Keegan" <skeegan at htctu.net>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] javascript help

> To: "'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'"

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <001801c74c94$90a4f8f0$99821299 at htctu.fhda.edu>

> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

>

>  > I can also add that for the most part the Yahoo! JavaScript libraries

>  > [http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/] are "pretty good".

>

> Some of these widgets were demonstrated at the CSUN conference last year,

> however, I believe the design team said the support was limited to

> Window-Eyes and Firefox.  Any update on this (I have not had a chance to

> try

> it myself)?

>

> Take care,

> Sean

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 4

> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:20:22 -0800

> From: "Sean Keegan" <skeegan at htctu.net>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

> To: "'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'"

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <002101c74c98$7e1c1ca0$99821299 at htctu.fhda.edu>

> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

>

>> This may seem obvious -- or off topic -- but what about simply

>> saving the PPT documents as PDF's before throwing them up on Bb sites?

>

> Actually, not really off-topic.  For awhile, that was one of the only ways

> to get a PPT presentation into a format that could be somewhat usable for

> an

> individual using assistive computer technology (barring use of the old

> PowerPoint Accessibility Wizard).

>

> I do know some who still use that conversion process, but with the advent

> of

> better conversion utilities it is not something I recommend as a first (or

> even second) option.  At the very least, you still need to have a copy of

> Adobe Acrobat Standard or Professional to create the tagged-PDF, which can

> cost about the same amount as either the Accessible Web Publishing Wizard

> or

> LecShare/LecShare Pro.  Also, while Acrobat has gotten better with some

> assistive technologies, for ease of use and overall reliability, I think

> HTML-based content has the edge.  Besides, if you do not have Adobe Reader

> installed, you are looking at a 20+ MB download for Reader 8.

>

> Ideally, when creating such presentations and delivering the content via

> the

> Web, you could deliver the presentation in several different formats.  I

> still think an HTML-based option works best for the current generation of

> assistive computer technologies.  I am hopeful that an export application

> will be developed that allows for the simple generation of a variety of

> accessible formats that can all be posted to the Web page and give users a

> choice as to which to utilize (e.g., PPT, DAISY, HTML, Video-based, etc.)

>

> Take care,

> Sean

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 5

> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 14:30:05 -0800

> From: "Terry Thompson" <tft at u.washington.edu>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] javascript help

> To: "'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'"

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID: <200702092230.l19MU6Pj005196 at smtp.washington.edu>

> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

>

> I'd say that statement about support being limited to Window-Eyes and

> Fireox

> is generally accurate, Sean, but maybe not entirely - I think it depends

> on

> the widget. Todd Kloots of Yahoo! joined Doug Geoffray of GW Micro

> (developer of Window-Eyes) in a presentation at the recent Web

> Accessibility

> Capacity Building Institute in Seattle. Interested folks should look over

> their presentation materials.

>

> The proceedings are here:

> http://www.washington.edu/doit/cbi/webaccess/proceedings.html

>

> And slides and examples from Todd's and Doug's presentation can be found

> on

> this Resources page:

> http://www.washington.edu/doit/cbi/webaccess/resources.html

>

> Coincidentally (given the earlier discussion on this list today about

> PowerPoint options), note that Todd's and Doug's slides are available in

> three formats: original Powerpoint, XHTML (LecShare), and PDF (as Dan

> Berkowitz suggested). Maybe the answer to this morning's question is:

> *provide choices*.

>

> Terry

>

> Terry Thompson

> Technology Specialist, DO-IT

> University of Washington

> tft at u.washington.edu

> 206/221-4168

> http://www.washington.edu/doit

>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org

>> [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On Behalf Of Sean Keegan

>> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 1:52 PM

>> To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'

>> Subject: Re: [Athen] javascript help

>>

>>  > I can also add that for the most part the Yahoo!

>> JavaScript libraries  > [http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/] are

>> "pretty good".

>>

>> Some of these widgets were demonstrated at the CSUN

>> conference last year, however, I believe the design team said

>> the support was limited to Window-Eyes and Firefox.  Any

>> update on this (I have not had a chance to try it myself)?

>>

>> Take care,

>> Sean

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Athen mailing list

>> Athen at athenpro.org

>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 6

> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:57:29 -0700

> From: "Kilcommons,Cath" <cathk at cahs.colostate.edu>

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Accessible Office Export Plug-In That's NOT UIUC

> To: "Access Technologists in Higher Education Network"

> 	<athen at athenpro.org>

> Message-ID:

> 	<D0BFDD81EF268941A90486528BEF703D7254C3 at DEGAS.CAHS.ColoState.EDU>

> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

>

>> This may seem obvious -- or off topic -- but what about simply saving

>> the PPT documents as PDF's before throwing them up on Bb sites?

>

> I'd say not off-topic and not obvious either.

> First, for someone like me who is paper-impaired when it comes to

> notetaking, I can't take that PDF and take notes on it using my laptop.

> If it is posted as a ppt, I can create the outline version, I can create

> a Word doc, or various options. PPT may be proprietary, but open source

> software like OpenOffice and Neo Office also offer me the ability to

> open PPT. So, even if ppt is not a great option, it does offer

> flexibility. Also, if the content is visible in the outline tab of the

> Normal view in PPT, then a screen reader can read it.

>

> Second, (the biggest drawback I think), is that when converted to PDF,

> you cannot retain the speaker notes used in PPT presentations, so you

> cannot use the notes to supplement graphic descriptions, or to "fill in

> the blanks" if you are one of those faculty who feels the need to leave

> holes in their presentations so that the student will come to lecture.

>

> Using  PPT > Send to Word, using the " Notes next to slides" options,

> then you get a document that has the notes and has the slide content in

> text and resizable graphics, but the files are huge. This becomes a

> fully accessible Word, that could be used on someone's laptop so they

> could take notes.

>

> Now if you turn that to PDF, you get back down to a reasonable file

> size, but I still can't take notes in it.

>

> This is something I've been working on looking into best practices, and

> here are some file size figures for one presentation put through many

> paces:

>

> PPT = 786Kb

> PPTConvert to Adobe PDF= 277Kb but no notes content.

> PPT >send to word with Notes = 4,236Kb

> PPT compressed =657Kb (this is a picture format option in PPT)

> PPT compressed >send to word with Notes = 4,236Kb

> PPT compressed >send to word with Notes using Links to slides =  3,522Kb

> PPT compressed >send to word with Notes using Links to slides THEN

> Convert to Adobe PDF = 743Kb (Tags are on table generated by Word)

> The same file originally done in S5 format = 521Kb with 495Kb in images.

>

> If people have not looked over Terry's treatment of the subject,I

> thought this was one of the most completely considered presentations I

> have ever seen on the topic, and I would recommend it to all.

> http://staff.washington.edu/tft/talks/powerpoint/index.html

>

> Best,

> Cath

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> _______________________________________________

> Athen mailing list

> Athen at athenpro.org

> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org

>

>

> End of Athen Digest, Vol 13, Issue 11

> *************************************

>