[Athen] Interesting New story

Terri Hedgpeth terrih at asu.edu
Wed Mar 28 18:02:11 PDT 2007


Woe! Slow down. I guess I hit a nerve. That was not my intention.
A couple things:
I mention the commercial partnership because I've observed that you
promote Dolphin's DAISY tools on this list as an objective
recommendation. Yet an objective recommendation should discuss the
competitors such as IRTI's DAISY production tools. We have used these at
ASU for some time and have found them to be quite good and the pricing
structure is a little lower. So, maybe I have felt that some posts on
that topic have been a little one-sided.




Dr. Terri Hedgpeth
Academic Research Professional
CUbiC #376, iCare
(480) 727-8133 V
(480) 965-1885 Fax
CUbiC.asu.edu
http://www.fulton.asu.edu/fulton/


-----Original Message-----
From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On
Behalf Of 'Ron Stewart'
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:23 PM
To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'; 'Alternate
Media'; DSSHE-L at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU
Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story

Good evening,

I made the decision this week to express my opinion in regards to an
issue that could have the potential to further marginalize folks with
disability from the mainstream educational space. Based on my body of
work, in this field, I thought I was intitled to express my educated
opinion. Oh stupid me!

I am going to take this opportunity to reply to all of those have been
taking pot-shots at me, most of them in a cowardly and underhanded way,
since I decided to go to work for Dolphin Computer Access. My role with
Dolphin gives me the opportunity to finally move the conversation about
curricular access forwared in a meaning and constructive way. Not just
in
the US, but on an international level as well. I find it very
unfortunate
that a number of people have not had the courage (phrase of your choice
here) to actually contact me directly or debate in any meaningful way
the issues at hand. I think you need to take a good hard look at the
agenda your working from and join a team, maybe not my team but to
become a part of the solution to the problem.

My first reaction to all of this was, to borrow a turn of prhase from my
English friends to tell you all to .... but common sense prevailed. Am
I angry yes, am I frustrated by the ingratititude that I have seen in
the last six months yes, am I going to walk away from it all, not a
....... chance.

For those who are not aware let me first give you an idea of the
voluntary roles I hold in this space:

Founding and current president of ATHEN
Technology Advisor to AHEAD
Chair of the AHEAD E-Text Initiative
Post-secondary representative to the NIMAS development committee.

I have devoted the last 15 years of my life to try to overcome the
marginalization of people with disabilities in the postsecondary space.
I made the move back into this arena for what were at the time very
personal reasons, but it is decision I will never look a back on. I
made my most recent carreer change based on not what was best for me
alone, but what I felt at the time on what was best for my moving our
agenda forward.

If you do not like it, then tough, nobody said life was fair. If you
want to engage me in a legitimate conversation about the issues,
wonderful. If you are concerned about my being a wolf in the henhouse,
then let's talk about it. Otherwise help me contribute to finding a
solution and put your petty self serving issues to the side.

Ron Stewart



-----Original Message-----
From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On
Behalf Of Terri Hedgpeth
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 3:48 PM
To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story

Ron, this is interesting considering your current position in a
commercial AT company.



Dr. Terri Hedgpeth
Academic Research Professional
CUbiC #376, iCare
(480) 727-8133 V
(480) 965-1885 Fax
CUbiC.asu.edu
http://www.fulton.asu.edu/fulton/


-----Original Message-----
From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Stewart
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:52 AM
To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'
Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story

John,

This obviously is a topic that is going nowhere, I feel I have clearly
stated my position on this particular topic and the use of any automated
tool for access checking on numerous occasions. I think my contribution
to the professional body of knowledge in this field is beyond question,
but
then perhaps that is just my opinion as well.

Ron Stewart


-----Original Message-----
From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org] On
Behalf Of John Foliot - Stanford Online Accessibility Program
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:21 AM
To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'
Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story

Ron Stewart wrote:

> After having conversations with several folks in the know, who also

> share my concerns, this product typically results in segregationist

> practices of access. That is a step backward in the minds of many of

> those who have worked in this field for an extended period of time.

> That is the basis of my concerns, that and the promises made and never



> delivered reality of how Hi-Soft chooses to do typically do

> business.


Ron,

You, as I, are entitled to an opinion, and a frank and open airing of
these opinions can be a benefit to any list member who wishes to weigh
the pros and cons. Having worked in the web accessibility field for over
8 years now, I am hardly a neophyte when it comes to this topic. Your
suggestion that the implementation of a QA tool that when used properly
can be of great assistance, is a "step backward" is opinionated
hyperbole that should be recognized as such. Please, if you wish to
contribute to the general body of knowledge, explain your concern: what
exactly does using this tool do that creates "...segregationist
practices...", and then please explain how the tool (as opposed to an
ill-informed or improperly trained operator) causes this problem.

*In Your Opinion* HiSoftware's sales practices go against your grain,
that's fair, but I also have first hand knowledge that the company
consists of caring and reasonable people who have accessibility concerns
in their agenda. Mr. Yonaitis has given freely of his time and
knowledge for many years, and HiSoftware hosts and funds the "Cynthia
Says" online tester, which, while not perfect, has done a lot to inform
and aid beginning web authors seeking to create accessible content.

Slavish reliance on any one tool can be dangerous, as with only one
hammer, everything becomes a nail. But the tool can be a valuable asset
in the hands of informed developers and educators, and your continued
insistence that it is somehow "evil" is simply not fair.

Respectfully,

JF
---
John Foliot
Academic Technology Consultant
Stanford Online Accessibility Program
http://soap.stanford.edu
Stanford University
560 Escondido Mall
Meyer Library 181
Stanford, CA 94305-3093
Tel: 650-862-4603




> Ron Stewart

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: athen-bounces at athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces at athenpro.org]

> On Behalf Of John Foliot - Stanford Online Accessibility Program

> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:49 AM

> To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network'

> Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story

>

> Ron Stewart wrote:

>> Morning,

>> We have talked about automated web compliance tools in the past, but

>> this article I find bothersome since I feel it is a major step

>> backwards on accessibility in what I was hoping was going to be a

>> progressive approach to systemic access.

>> http://business.itbusinessnet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=115414

>> This is a great tool in an informed hand, but in the wrong hands it

>> is a disaster as many of us have seen. Ron

>

> Attn: Chicken Littles on this list,

>

> Those in the know already understand the issues with automated

> testing. Yet, this article clearly indicates that, "...HiSoftware's

> solutions are part of our multi-prong strategy for checking the

> accessibility of Web sites in a scalable manner." [David Ernst, CIO

> and Assistant Vice Chancellor of Information Technology Services at

> CSU]

>

> "...*PART* of a multi-prong strategy..."(!!!) Having worked with this



> tool in the past (and in the interest of disclosure I have a former

> business relationship with Hisoftware) I can assert that the tool can

> be a powerful tool for tracking and monitoring existing and new

> content. It is not a magic bullet, nor a panacea that will instantly

> fix all problems, but it *is* a great QA tracking tool that can aid in



> identifying accessibility and compliance issues. The tool combines

> both an automated checker as well as an "interview wizard"

> which walks content authors through the various accessibility

> checkpoints (Section 508 or WCAG) and allows them to check/test for

> compliancy. The enterprise edition can run scheduled tests on

> multiple and disparate web sites, and forward reports to a central

> location (if desired) - allowing for example web accessibility

> specialists to identify areas of concern, and perhaps even seek out

> the "offending" author and educate them on why they have a problem

> and teach them how to fix it.

>

> I cannot for the life of me see how adding this QA tool to the suite

> of accessibility development assets available to CSU webmasters is a

> "backward step". Let's be fair here...

>

> JF

> ---

> John Foliot

> Academic Technology Consultant

> Stanford Online Accessibility Program

> http://soap.stanford.edu

> Stanford University

> 560 Escondido Mall

> Meyer Library 181

> Stanford, CA 94305-3093

> Tel: 650-862-4603

>

>

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>

>

>

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