[Athen] Repost: Google Apps Evaluation
E.A. Draffan
ea at emptech.info
Sun May 15 02:38:08 PDT 2011
Apologies folks for the muddle but we have been trying both Android and
Google Apps! In my Saturday madness it probably showed I was having a bad
hair day trying to write a paper when I should have been up on the Downs
(hills in south England)! <imagine embarrassed smile>
Thanks for all the help and yes the Google apps are also an issue -
launching the calendar on an iPad from within a browser based portal that
Seb has made for a school - I know some time ago there was a debate about
the Calendar and testing was done using WebbIE - sadly in our case, the
embedded calendar when read still fails to make sense even though the screen
reader and text browser can show the contents . It is such a great way of
sharing events etc that the school still want to use it but I have concerns
as in this case it suits their students with learning disabilities and
Autism and they have no screen reader users but contravenes our Equality
Act.
We are deep into exploring open innovation / open source and free stuff with
the cuts but I still feel there are issues all round. We even have a
project on the subject www.realisepotential.org gathering ideas for new and
open AT - please pop your ideas there or any software projects you are
willing to share and join us in our quest!
Best wishes E.A.
Mrs E.A. Draffan
Learning Societies Lab,
ECS, University of Southampton,
Tel +44 (0)23 8059 7246
http://access.ecs.soton.ac.uk
http://www.emptech.info
From: athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu
[mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Petri
Sent: 15 May 2011 04:51
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Repost: Google Apps Evaluation
Hi E.A.,
I know this thread is about Google Apps, not Android, but since you brought
up Android, I thought I'd give my two cents. Like you, I haven't seen much
on the Android side that is all that encouraging.
There are two groups who have put logs of effort on Android accessibility,
external to Google, that I know of: Steve Jacob's Apps4Android--which has a
couple of products, including an alternative browser, a magnifier, and, most
recently, but not released yet, an extension for Cool Reader that adds
TTS--and Code Factory, which has a screen reader and a number of hand-rolled
productivity apps--a dialer, a virtual d'pad, a virtual keyboard, contacts
manager, calendar, a web browser, and some other stuff (all for around
$100--when the same sorts of things work out of the box on iOS). I have not
heard of any DAISY-capable TTS enabled and/or synchronized highlighting
reader.
I think Android should be considered in the early phases of accessibility
implementation. Folks at CSUN were very critical of Android accessibility in
the sessions I was in where it was mentioned, and I think for good reason.
Right now, outside of Code Factory's virtual d'pad, there is no workable
touch screen interactivity with a screen reader running. Up against iOS
devices with Zoom, global contrast settings, and VoiceOver, and with tons of
accessible apps available, Android just doesn't even come close. Point of
pride applications like Intersection Explorer on Android feel like a
lark--interesting, yes, compelling, not really.
In my opinion, Google is going to need to do what Apple did on iOS--approach
accessibility holistically, as a fundamental and fully integrated aspect of
the OS. Right now, their approach is piecemeal. I haven't heard anything
that convinces me that Google has a viable Android accessibility strategy. I
hope I'm just missing something, and, if not, then I hope we all hear
encouraging news soon.
All the best,
ken
--
Ken Petri
Program Director, OSU Web Accessibility Center
102D Pomerene Hall, 1760 Neil Avenue, Columbus, Ohio 43210
Office: 614.292.1760 | Mobile: 614.218.1499 | Fax: 614.292.4190
http://wac.osu.edu | petri.1 at osu.edu
On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 4:54 PM, E.A. Draffan <ea at emptech.info> wrote:
I would really love to take part in the Android apps group evaluation, but
we have a project where the analysis came down on the side of using IOS -
iPhone and iPad. We tried to find robust technologies for Android text to
speech, screen reading, Daisy and accessible audio apps or accessible built
in features for accessing documents. Are there any good ones that are tried
and tested? Have we got this wrong? The project has to finish soon and the
team are all iPhone/iPad users but happy to change if there is a better more
open solution available now.
Many thanks.
Best wishes E.A.
Mrs E.A. Draffan
Learning Societies Lab,
ECS, University of Southampton,
Tel +44 (0)23 8059 7246 <tel:%2B44%20%280%2923%208059%207246>
http://access.ecs.soton.ac.uk
http://www.emptech.info
-----Original Message-----
From: athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu
[mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Petri
Sent: 14 May 2011 16:49
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Repost: Google Apps Evaluation
Google I/O: As far as I can tell, there were no announcements about Google
Apps accessibility directly, at all. There was only one web-related
accessibility presentation--another on Android and on YouTube.
But there is another wrinkle, Charles Chen demo-ed ChromeVox, the screen
reader built into Chrome OS, working with Gmail. I've played with ChromeVox
on a PC just in the browser and it isn't too bad with Gmail--certainly much
better than gmail in any other screen reader, currently. ChromeVox is ARIA
aware to some degree (not clear what
degree) and Google has developed an imperative language called VoxScript
that allows scripters of applications (in Chrome/ChromeOS
only?) to add in audio cues, supplemental text, and control focus via web
application-specific scripts that extend the application. (This is somewhat
like Chen's earlier AxsJAX project.)
Here's the YouTube vid:
http://www.youtube.com/user/GoogleDevelopers#p/u/76/PAzY2MQxJDQ
(limited time? start around 12:00 and tune out after Chen leaves).
BTW, I participated in two of the Google CSUN sessions. The open/no NDA
presentation was run by Naomi Black and was basically an hour of "we aren't
doing a very good job, with the exception of search." She assigned grades to
many of their products and gave Gmail a B- (to some audience grumbling and
audible mumbles of "C-"). She assigned Google Apps a grade of "D." I also
attended a later session under NDA. I suppose I'm forbidden from giving any
info on that, but I can say that virtually all of the discussion in this
developer focused session was on Android.
ken
--
Ken Petri
Program Director, OSU Web Accessibility Center 102D Pomerene Hall, 1760 Neil
Avenue, Columbus, Ohio 43210
Office: 614.292.1760 | Mobile: 614.218.1499 | Fax: 614.292.4190
http://wac.osu.edu | petri.1 at osu.edu
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Ron Stewart <ron at ahead.org> wrote:
> I would also like to be an observer in this effort. You have done it,
> and yes I would think that getting a "Collaboration" going would be
> the appropriate next step since that is the way the membership has
> endorsed doing these kinds of things.
>
> Ron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu
> [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of
> Greg Kraus
> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 8:17 AM
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
> Subject: Re: [Athen] Repost: Google Apps Evaluation
>
> Hi All,
>
> Here is the list of people I have who have expressed interest in
> working in this interest group.
>
> Greg Kraus
> Karen Sorensen
> Alice Anderson
> Sharon Trerise
> Scott Williams
> Terrill Thompson
>
> If I missed anyone please let me know. Jon, I wasn't sure if you were
> expressing interest or not. If you would like to just let me know.
>
> Others, as with other ATHEN interest groups I assume people will be
> able to come and go from the group when desired. This list is just an
> initial list of people to start the discussion.
>
> Ron, what is the process for getting an official ATHEN Interest Group
> started? Would it be best to go ahead and set up a section on the
> Collaboration site to start discussing these matters?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Greg Kraus <greg_kraus at ncsu.edu> wrote:
>> I'll be happy to coordinate this. With Google IO going on right now
>> we should probably also wait to see what announcements are coming
>> from the cloud. I'll start pulling some things together soon and get
>> everyone who has expresses interest involved. I'll probably start an
>> email discussion in the next week or two to make sure we can define a
>> common goal and that it is something that ATHEN as an organization
>> can support.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Ron Stewart <ron at ahead.org> wrote:
>>> Thanks for those of you who stepped up to the plate on this, Greg
>>> since you already volunteered do you want to pull something together.
>>> Before we move forward under the ATHEN umbrella I want to make sure
>>> everyone is on the same page. It probably would be best to setup a
>>> smaller discussion group on this topic as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu
>>> [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of
>>> Gunderson, Jon R
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:57 AM
>>> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
>>> Subject: RE: [Athen] Repost: Google Apps Evaluation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If we coordinate our accessibility efforts with Google we will be
>>> able to prioritize the accessibility features they work on and be
>>> able to help Google understand that this is a long term effort and
> responsibility.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu
>>> [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of
>>> scott williams
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:21 AM
>>> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
>>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Repost: Google Apps Evaluation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The University of Michigan is in contract negotiations with Google.
>>> We told them that we were holding off negotiations until they could
>>> show us an accessible version of Google Apps. I expect to be a
>>> member of the pilot here on campus so I can evaluate its
>>> accessibility before a
> campus-wide rollout.
>>> They are trying to publish a more accessible version of Google Apps
>>> by
> fall.
>>> I am going to wait to evaluate the updated version (or a substantial
>>> number of micro-upgrades). I do know that they are working closely
>>> with the NFB to reach a settlement, so I do expect real change, but
>>> the proof is in the pudding.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think we surprised them with our firm stance, but we told them
>>> that even though the NFB is happy with Google's progress, that
>>> wouldn't stop the NFB from coming at us should a student file a
>>> complaint here. And that is not a risk we're going to take.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would be very interested in participating in this group. I agree
>>> with Jon and Greg that Google would welcome the effort, and it will
>>> help keep them on the right track.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 9:14 AM, Greg Kraus <greg_kraus at ncsu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Ron,
>>>
>>> I've been talking with some members of the Google Apps for Education
>>> Team about this and have offered to coordinate with ATHEN an
>>> accessibility interest group to work with Google like we have done
>>> with Blackboard and Elluminate/Blackboard. We are a Google Apps
>>> campus so we definitely have a vested interest in this. So far
>>> Google has not taken me up on this offer.
>>>
>>> I can say that Google is keenly aware of the issue and is trying to
>>> address it. We at NC State have built some relationships with the
>>> Google Apps for Education Team so I am happy to coordinate an ATHEN
>>> interest group if others are interested in participating.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> --
>>> Greg Kraus
>>> University IT Accessibility Coordinator Office of Information
>>> Technology North Carolina State University
>>> 919.513.4087
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Sean J Keegan <skeegan at stanford.edu>
> wrote:
>>>> Good morning folks, hope you are staying above water!
>>>>
>>>> I have received several request for ATHEN or another unbiased group
>>>> to do an objective evaluation of the accessibility of the current
>>>> version of Google Apps. This would be of a similar nature of our
>>>> work on the iTunes work we did a few years back. If you are aware
>>>> of anyone who has already done a compressive, cross disability
>>>> evaluation that is great and I will pass that on to those who have
>>>> inquired.
>>>>
>>>> At this point I am needing someone who has the time and available
>>>> bandwidth to take a project of this nature on and to be the leader
>>>> of the project.
>>>>
>>>> Ron Stewart
>>>>
>>>> *******************************************************************
>>>> *
>>>> ****
>>>> Ron Stewart
>>>> Managing Consultant
>>>> Altformat Solutions LLC
>>>>
>>>> 8300 West Weller St
>>>> Yorktown, IN 47396
>>>> Mobile: 609 213-2190 <tel:609%20213-2190>
>>>> Fax: 765 405-1484 <tel:765%20405-1484>
>>>>
>>>> ron at altformatsolutions.com
>>>> www.altformatsolutions.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> athen-list mailing list
>>>> athen-list at mailman1.u.washington.edu
>>>> http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> athen-list mailing list
>>> athen-list at mailman1.u.washington.edu
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott Williams
>>> Web Accessibility Coordinator
>>> Office of Institutional Equity
>>> University of Michigan
>>> 734.764.0051
>>> swims at umich.edu
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> athen-list mailing list
>>> athen-list at mailman1.u.washington.edu
>>> http://mailman1.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
>>>
>>>
>>
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