[Athen] Google Apps

[Greg Kraus]

Hi All,

Here is my experience with Google's accessibility support and how they
announce changes to the public.

1. The accessibility team working at Google is very dedicated to making
Google Apps accessible, and in the end, we are all working and hoping for
the same thing - that everyone can use Google Apps. I believe the
accessibility team has a very difficult path to forge within the company to
make it happen, not unlike many of the battles we have to fight on campuses
to change cultures and mindsets. I applaud and am grateful of the work they
have done to date, because they have done a lot, but we're not there yet
and so we each have a role to play in this drama - we have to hold their
feet to the fire, yet at the same time cheer them on.

2. Most of the Google Apps are, in my opinion, not too complex to be used
with JAWS and other screen readers. For the most part, Google has chosen to
implement most of its screen reader support through ChromeVox, and has done
so in ways that other screen readers cannot take advantage of. They will
say (quite often) that the problem of accessibility for complex Web apps
has not been solved by anyone and they are working to solve it. I will
grant them that Google Docs would require so much advanced ARIA support in
screen readers that it might be impractical at this point to get equitable
functionality in all screen readers, but for applications like GMail and
Calendar, I don't accept that argument. Those interfaces are much simpler
and could be much more accessible to JAWS, VoiceOver, and others.

3. Like I said, Google is definitely pushing towards a ChromeVox solution
for screen reader support and considering other screen readers after the
fact. ChromeVox interacts with Web applications in some fundamentally
different ways than traditional screen readers. There are times, I believe,
that the Google Apps are sending ChromeVox specific statements to say at
certain points. This is fundamentally different behavior than every other
Web application on the Internet and every other screen reader. It basically
means Google Apps are being designed to work with a particular technology,
not being designed to an accepted standard. (You might think well, with
ARIA live regions I can send a statement to JAWS to announce. Yes, you can,
but it's still because JAWS chooses to say it. ChromeVox support in these
areas is more akin to calling an API function in ChromeVox to announce
something, most likely being done through a JavaScript call. Last time I
checked, JAWS didn't have an API available to Web applications.) Maybe it's
time for some shakeup in the screen reader industry and how screen readers
are supposed to work, but ChromeVox is definitely not ready for prime time
production use.

4. Google does not announce a lot of accessibility changes. If they use the
Accessibility Google Group to make minor announcements, I've missed most of
them. I've seen a few references to people posting a bug to the list and a
developer making a comment that it will be fixed soon, but those instances
are fairly rare. I did a quick skim of the messages back to Dec 1, 2011 and
I didn't see any threads started by Google announcing any improvements to
Google Apps. In fact, their most recent blog posting (
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/understanding-accessibility-at-csun.html)
still only references their accessibility improvements from last September (
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/enhanced-accessibility-in-docs-sites.html).
That is the only accessibility announcement I have seen from Google
regading Google Apps in the last 6 months.

5. I know they are working on things and making them better. At CSUN, when
Hadi and I were presenting on Google Apps Accessibility a Google Docs
developer was in the audience and I learned that about a week after our
October accessibility report on Docs he had fixed one of the bugs we
reported. (It was regarding screen reader users escaping out of modal
windows in Docs). I'm very glad it's fixed, but that's the first I had
heard about it. Communication about improvements is simply non-existent.

Greg

--
Greg Kraus
University IT Accessibility Coordinator
NC State University
919.513.4087
greg_kraus at ncsu.edu


On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Laurie Vasquez <Vasquez at sbcc.edu> wrote:


>  FYI  - Laurie

>

> From T.V. Raman so we can track activity:

>

> >>In general, we announce minor  enhancements via the

> http://groups.google.com/group/accessible  list, and

> > major enhancements via our product specific company blogs. We

> > also point to all such major announcements via

> > http://google.com/accessibility

>

> From the list:

>      View profile

> <http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=iKoWdREAAAC7yFlLlg0FUkg3PGn7PM9qkdEasx1kiYTQavV7mdW13Q>

> Feb 29, 8:19 pm If you're at CSUN 2012 this week, and are interested in

> helping us evaluate

> the accessibility of some Google products, we're running a short user

> study.

> We're looking for about 30 minutes of time. If you're interested in

> participating, please fill out this survey to let us know:

> http://goo.gl/S6J2V<http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://goo.gl/S6J2V&usg=AFQjCNFiV00M7cRdWPEzO4TQOxb8cNc6yw>

> -naomi

>

>

>

>

> >>> "Humbert, Joseph A" <johumber at iupui.edu> 3/8/2012 11:07 AM >>>

>

> The Google person in charge of Google Docs said that Docs was designed in

> a way that current screen reading software could not understand so they

> developed at screen reader around it (ChromeVox) during the CSUN fireside

> chat.****

>

> ** **

>

> Joe Humbert, Assistive Technology and Web Accessibility Specialist****

>

> UITS Adaptive Technology and Accessibility Centers****

>

> Indiana University, Indianapolis and Bloomington****

>

> 535 W Michigan St. IT214 E****

>

> Indianapolis, IN 46202****

>

> Office Phone: (317) 274-4378****

>

> Cell Phone: (317) 644-6824****

>

> johumber at iupui.edu****

>

> http://iuadapts.Indiana.edu/ <http://iuadapts.indiana.edu/>****

>

> ** **

>

> *From:* athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu [mailto:

> athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] *On Behalf Of *Ron Stewart

> *Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2012 12:38 PM

> *To:* 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'

> *Subject:* RE: [Athen] Google Apps****

>

> ** **

>

> Just to add to this comment, the conversations that were had with Google

> last week were from all feedback I have received less than productive.

> ATHEN will continue to explore the issues of the Google App suites and

> welcomes any opportunities to collaborate in the hopeful resolution of what

> is a very problematic situation.****

>

> ** **

>

> Ron Stewart, President ****

>

> ATHEN****

>

> ** **

>

> *From:* athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu

> [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] *On Behalf Of *Scott

> Williams

> *Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2012 9:08 AM

> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network

> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Fwd: Google Apps****

>

> ** **

>

> Also, the previous report on Google Docs can be found here: ****

>

> ** **

>

> http://athenpro.org/google-docs-accessibility****

>

> ** **

>

> Some of the findings may be slightly dated, but the general situation

> remains the same. Progress has been slow. ****

>

> ** **

>

> At U-Michigan we are scurrying to find work-arounds for Google Apps for

> our screen reader users. These work-arounds will not be satisfactory

> accommodations because the colloaborative aspect of Google Apps drops out

> of the picture. Same for the inter-App functionality (e.g., adding an event

> or task from Gmail). ****

>

> ** **

>

> Current strategies include using Mail.app and ICal for Mac folks and

> Outlook for PC folks. We are looking at 3rd-party apps such as Insync for

> dealing with Google Docs. ****

>

> ** **

>

> Scott****

>

> ** **

>

> -- ****

>

> Scott Williams****

>

> Web Accessibility Coordinator****

>

> Office of Institutional Equity****

>

> University of Michigan****

>

> 734-764-0051****

>

> ** **

>

> On Thursday, March 8, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Kathleen Cahill wrote:****

>

>   Robert,****

>

>

> Here is the link from the ATHEN website:

> http://athenpro.org/google-gmail-calendar-accessibility ****

>

>  ****

>

> Kathy****

>

>  ****

>

> Kathleen Cahill****

>

> Assistive Technology Specialist****

>

> MIT ATIC (Assistive Tech. Info. Center)****

>

> 77 Mass. Ave. 7-143****

>

> Cambridge MA 02139****

>

> (617) 253-5111****

>

> kcahill at mit.edu****

>

>  ****

>

>  ****

>

>  ****

>

> *From:* athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu [

> mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu<athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu>]

> *On Behalf Of *Robert Espero

> *Sent:* Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:19 AM

> *To:* 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'

> *Subject:* RE: [Athen] Fwd: Google Apps****

>

>  ****

>

> Sue,****

>

>  ****

>

> I was at CSUN in San Diego last week where I sat in a session regarding

> Google Accessibility with the NFB. Hadi was in there and was very adamant

> that it was not accessible. I have not had the opportunity to read his

> report so I was wondering if you could forward the URL so I can become more

> aware of the issues Google Apps/Docs present.****

>

>  ****

>

> Thanks,****

>

>  ****

>

> Robert****

>

>  ****

>

> P.S. UC Irvine has done a "soft" deployment of Google Apps in light of

> numerous notifications of its inaccessibility by me and other colleagues.

> I'm hoping his report can provide some information for me to present to our

> computing department and Vice Chancellor.****

>

>  ****

>

> Robert Espero****

>

> AT/IT Coordinator

> Disability Services Center****

>

> UC Irvine****

>

>  ****

>

> *From:* athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu

> [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] *On Behalf Of *Susan

> Kelmer

> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 06, 2012 3:44 PM

> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network

> *Subject:* RE: [Athen] Fwd: Google Apps****

>

>  ****

>

> Read Hadi and Joe's report.****

>

>  ****

>

> Not accessible.****

>

>  ****

>

> *Susan Kelmer*****

>

> *Alternate Format Coordinator*****

>

> *Disability Services*****

>

> *University of Colorado*****

>

> *303-735-4836*****

>

>  ****

>

> *From:* athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu

> [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman1.u.washington.edu] *On Behalf Of *Wink

> Harner

> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:40 PM

> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network

> *Subject:* [Athen] Fwd: Google Apps****

>

>  ****

>

> Hi all,

>

> Our college district has adopted Google Apps for Education (email &

> calendaring). Any warnings, tips or tricks you might have that I could pass

> along to our district IT folks in advance regarding known accessibility

> issues would be greatly appreciated.

>

> Thanks in advance.

>

> Wink

>

> -- ****

>

> Ms. Wink Harner

> Project Support

> Mesa Community College

> 1833 W. Southern Avenue

> Mesa AZ 85201

>

> winkharner at mesacc.edu****

>

> _______________________________________________****

>

> athen-list mailing list****

>

> athen-list at mailman1.u.washington.edu****

>

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>

>  ** **

>

> _______________________________________________

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