[Athen] webpage coding question

[Robert Beach]

Excellent quote!  I like it.


Robert Lee Beach
Assistive Technology Specialist
Kansas City Kansas Community College
7250 State Avenue
Kansas City, KS  66112
913-288-7671
rbeach at kckcc.edu

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Teresa Haven
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 3:31 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] webpage coding question

Exactly my thought, Dan!  When I looked at the app’s design and purpose, my first question was why they were making more work for themselves using Angular and having to clean up its messes instead of just using plain old HTML and CSS.  As it stands, not only is accessibility an issue, so is general usability.

“The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.” – Scotty (Star Trek III)

Thanks,
Teresa

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Dan Comden
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 1:24 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] webpage coding question

This sounds like a perfect demonstration of why not to use ARIA when there are perfectly good HTML tags that serve the same purpose.

-*- Dan

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Teresa Haven <Teresa.Haven at nau.edu<mailto:Teresa.Haven at nau.edu>> wrote:
Thanks, all.  Combing through the code is yielding at least a couple of incorrect tags that I know have been injected by Angular, and I’m betting there are more I haven’t found yet, so this will be a good learning experience for the developer.  I appreciate all the suggestions on what to search for.

Best,
Teresa

From: Travis Roth [mailto:troth at accessibilitypartners.com<mailto:troth at accessibilitypartners.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 11:02 AM
To: Teresa Haven
Subject: RE: [Athen] webpage coding question

That JAWS message about virtual documents makes me wonder if there is an ARIA tag floating around that should not be, in particular possible role=application or role=dialog.
As you mention ARIA used incorrectly can cause as big a problem as it solves.
A couple other things to look at are if there is a role=presentation set on the heading tags, or if the developer is attempting to hide these visually and using some CSS such as display=none. Screen readers honor the CSS of display=none same as browsers do; a developer who last wroekd with accessibility in the early 2000s and is remembering this trick to previously provide AT extra info may be surprised it no longer works.



Travis Roth
Principal Partner
Accessibility Partners, LLC
www.AccessibilityPartners.com<http://www.AccessibilityPartners.com>
troth at Accessibilitypartners.com<mailto:troth at Accessibilitypartners.com>
402-466-0907<tel:402-466-0907>



From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Teresa Haven
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 12:48 PM

To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] webpage coding question

Thanks, Greg. Sorry, I should have been more extensive in my list – NVDA with Firefox is in the mix, and I’m getting yet another different incomplete list of headers with it. And when I try to use JAWS with Firefox in this app, my command to request a list of headers just gets “This command is only available in a virtual document, like a webpage.”
Any other suggestions are welcome before I pull my hair out. ☺
Teresa
From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Kraus
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 10:34 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] webpage coding question

Sorry, just saw that you were using Firefox. Definitely try NVDA in the mix though.

Greg


On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Greg Kraus <gdkraus at ncsu.edu<mailto:gdkraus at ncsu.edu>> wrote:
Hi Teresa,

I would first check if the combinations of JAWS with Firefox and NVDA with Firefox give you the same results. Depending on the version of JAWS and IE and the particular elements that might be parent elements of the headings, that might be the source of the problem. If both JAWS and NVDA work with Firefox, then you can start looking at potential JAWS-IE conflicts.

Greg

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu<mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>> wrote:
Perhaps these need element tags - ARIA tags


[Image removed by sender.]<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University
1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
503/725-2754<tel:503%2F725-2754>




On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 10:18 AM, Teresa Haven <Teresa.Haven at nau.edu<mailto:Teresa.Haven at nau.edu>> wrote:
I’ve had a strange situation arise with a new web app that my institution is attempting to develop. We are still in the beta stage so the site isn’t public, but we’ve noticed that even though the developer has included appropriate H tags for structure, they aren’t all being perceived by either AT or various A11y checking tools.  When I have JAWS present me with a list of headers on the page, I get one lonely H5 tag.  When I have WAVE check the outline, I am told I have one H1, a small handful of H3s, and one H4. In the code for the page from the user agent perspective we can see one H1, a couple of H2s, a LOT of H3s, and a couple each of H4 and H5 – which is what the developer used in the design. We are using JAWS 14 and 15 for testing, IE11 with JAWS, and Firefox 36 with WAVE. The app is not using HTML5, although it is using some Angular. Does anyone have any ideas for why our AT and tools aren’t perceiving the H tags that we are seeing in the code?

Thanks for any troubleshooting suggestions you might have,
Teresa

Teresa Haven, Ph.D.
Accessibility Analyst, Northern Arizona University


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--
-*- Dan Comden                       danc at uw.edu<mailto:danc at washington.edu>
    Access Technology Center   www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/<http://www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/>
    University of Washington      UW Information Technology

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