[Athen] Text in marketing images

Sarver, Cynthia A. cynthia.sarver at stthomas.edu
Wed Mar 9 12:54:43 PST 2016


Hello,

We are ramping up an accessibility initiative at UST and are in the process of examining our public-facing websites, as well as instructional content.

I know that many of you are farther along this path than we and am hoping you can share your expertise.

Specifically we have a question about how to deal with largely decorative images on, say, department home pages that may also contain a text overlay (such as a marketing slogan) that is also part of the image. We are thinking that this problem cannot be unique to us and are wondering how others have corrected this issue in light of accessibility.

Thanks in advance,

--Cynthia

Cynthia Sarver, M.E.T., Ph.D.
Accessibility Specialist/Instructional Designer
Center for Faculty Development
AQU 311 | Mail 4034
University of St. Thomas
St. Paul, MN 55105-1078

Phone: 651-962-6015
E-mail: cynthia.sarver at stthomas.edu
Twitter: @cynthiasarver

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Emma Cliffe)
2. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Samantha Johns)
3. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Lisa Brandt)
4. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Samantha Johns)
5. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Wink Harner)
6. MathType problem (Robert Beach)
7. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Emma Cliffe)
8. Re: MathType problem (steve.noble at louisville.edu)
9. Re: MathType problem (Robert Beach)
10. Re: MathType problem (Mark C. Mintz)
11. Re: MathType problem (Todd Schwanke)
12. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Samantha Johns)
13. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Lisa Brandt)
14. AHEAD/ATHEN Webinar March 15th - Discount Available!
(Hunziker, Dawn A - (hunziker))
15. Re: Epub Format in Google Docs (Wink Harner)
16. Job Posting Announcement: MIT Associate Dean, Accessibility
and Usability (Mary J Ziegler)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 20:35:24 +0000
From: Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID:
<4b83a366e359424d806eb03295497165 at exch06.campus.bath.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3 http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php). I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath

On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:
Hello Athen Community,

As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and recommendations?

Have a great day!


[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png]<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754





--



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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800
From: Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID:
<CAD9FakQOtNYtSX8gRHosuPqVsebe3K1pqaYD7mnO4zw49HvFiQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello,

Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this
format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text
for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt
Text. So that's a plus!


* <http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>*

*Samantha Johns*

*Accessibility & **Course Support Specialist *

Portland State University
1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk> wrote:


>

> Hello,

>

> Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full

> test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the

> EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images

> (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means

> that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow

> badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

>

> This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with

> SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3

> http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php). I

> didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more

> complex structural elements though.

>

> Best wishes,

> Emma Cliffe

>

> Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer

> University of Bath

>

>

> On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:

>

> Hello Athen Community,

>

> As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to

> Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this

> and recommendations?

>

> Have a great day!

>

>

> * <http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> *

>

> *Samantha Johns*

>

> *Accessibility & **Course Support Specialist *

>

> Portland State University

> 1825 SW Broadway

> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

> Portland OR 97201

> (503) 725-2754

>

>

>

>

> --

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> athen-list mailing list

> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu

> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

>

>

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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:59:31 -0800
From: "Lisa Brandt" <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu>
To: "Access Technology Higher Education Network"
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>,"Samantha Johns" <samanj at pdx.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID: <op.yd0xxhjny0q16n at sycc260m4366l.pcc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"; Format="flowed";
DelSp="yes"

Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a
priority.


On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu> wrote:


> Hello,

> Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this

> format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math

> >equations.

>

> I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt

> text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read

> the Alt Text. >So that's a plus!

>

>

>

>

> Samantha Johns

>

> Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

> Portland State University

> 1825 SW Broadway

> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

> Portland OR 97201

> (503) 725-2754

>

>

>

>

>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>

>> wrote:

>>

>> Hello,

>>

>> Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full

>> test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the

>> EPub >>and looking at the source code the equations are stored as

>> images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text.

>> This means that the >>images won't scale well (may also align badly and

>> will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

>> This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML

>> with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3

>> http://www.idpf.org/>>accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php).

>> I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other

>> more complex structural >>elements though.

>> Best wishes,

>> Emma Cliffe

>>

>> Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer

>> University of Bath

>>

>>

>> On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:

>>> Hello Athen Community,

>>> As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export

>>> to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the >>>benefits

>>> of this and recommendations?

>>> Have a great day!

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Samantha Johns

>>>

>>> Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

>>> Portland State University

>>> 1825 SW Broadway

>>> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

>>> Portland OR 97201

>>> (503) 725-2754

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>> --

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> athen-list mailing list

>> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu

>> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

>>

>




--
--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 14:31:37 -0800
From: Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu>
To: Lisa Brandt <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu>
Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID:
<CAD9FakSixHH_y_m0w1gsXAVff_QEeW6AJugQNi8wEUG_Xhg9vg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello Lisa,

Yes I hope they make that a priority as well.


* <http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>*

*Samantha Johns*

*Accessibility & **Course Support Specialist *

Portland State University
1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Lisa Brandt <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu> wrote:


> Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a

> priority.

>

>

> On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu> wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this

> format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

>

> I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text

> for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt

> Text. So that's a plus!

>

>

> * <http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>*

>

> *Samantha Johns*

>

> *Accessibility & **Course Support Specialist *

>

> Portland State University

> 1825 SW Broadway

> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

> Portland OR 97201

> (503) 725-2754

>

>

>

>

> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>

> wrote:

>

>>

>> Hello,

>>

>> Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full

>> test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the

>> EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images

>> (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means

>> that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow

>> badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

>>

>> This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with

>> SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3

>> http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php). I

>> didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more

>> complex structural elements though.

>>

>> Best wishes,

>> Emma Cliffe

>>

>> Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer

>> University of Bath

>>

>>

>> On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:

>>

>> Hello Athen Community,

>>

>> As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to

>> Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this

>> and recommendations?

>>

>> Have a great day!

>>

>>

>> * <http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> *

>>

>> *Samantha Johns*

>>

>> *Accessibility & **Course Support Specialist *

>>

>> Portland State University

>> 1825 SW Broadway

>> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

>> Portland OR 97201

>> (503) 725-2754

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> athen-list mailing list

>> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu

>> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

>>

>>

>

>

>

> --

> --

> Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services

> Accessibility Technician

> Alternate Media Formats Technician

> SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

>

> Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:

> access-tech-group at pcc.edu

> 971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)

>

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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 14:39:26 -0800
From: "Wink Harner" <foreigntype at gmail.com>
To: "'Access Technology Higher Education Network'"
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID: <00ec01d1798b$5f538860$1dfa9920$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi ATHENITES,



Today, I am masquerading as the magic math fairy. Waving my magic wand, I'm
going to bonk on the Google Docs export to EPUB icon.**BING!** Whoops, Math
Type equations have to be cut and pasted into a Google Docs, at which point
they are converted to a GIF file, which all of us know "looks nice" but is
generally inaccessible. Well shoot, I had to put that darn "varela" away.
Bonking my math wand on Google docs just doesn't work, doggone it all.



There are a couple of problems in converting to EPUB using Google Docs as
the formatting engine. First of all there are easier ways to create
accessible documents and convert to EPUB format - Caliber (free) is one
among many applications which does a fine job than using Google Docs as the
formatting engine. Google Docs is a shell program which makes you think you
are working in Microsoft Word when in fact you are not. Which is why
MathType doesn't work as efficiently or at all in this arena.



What really confuses me is why any of us are even considering using EPUB for
math output, when there is such a simple, somewhat direct (simple does not
equal easy or fast!) route to take: if you want it to look nice, leave it
alone in the PDF file. If it needs to be in text-to-speech, run the PDF
through an OCR conversion using Infnty OCR software for the math & either
Abbyy Fine Reader or Omnipage for the text portions, save into a Microsoft
or a tagged PDF file, and for a student who has a reading disability, use
the free CAR reader from Central Washington University, which renders math
nicely in text-to-speech. Or for the student who is blind or visually
impaired, and needs to use a screen reader such as JAWS or NVDA, retype
using MathType. Or, you can convert to LaTex or Nemeth and export to
Braille. The CAR text-to-speech reader is not yet available in the iDevice
world, but it does nicely in the android and the PC World, providing a good
text-to-speech output while simultaneously highlighting the math. This is
good learning support for students who have reading disabilities.



I am really struggling over why we think that every platform ought to cover
every color, shade, and size of disability. Surely, we have learned enough
by now to know that you pick the right tool for the job, not the other way
around.



If you're looking at portability, then by all means make the math look nice
on a small screen. But portability is only applicable as an accommodation
under certain circumstances, for example, a student who cannot carry all of
the books without succumbing to a tipping factor. Or someone who cannot
physically turn the pages would benefit from an electronic book format.



I have enclosed (below) , a selection from a Google how-to site specifically
regarding formatting math in Google Docs:




"There is no built-in equation capability in Google Docs Presentations, but
you can still use MathType to create equations for your presentations.


1.In MathType, in the Size menu choose Define, and set the font size
equal to what you're using in Google Docs. Default font size in Google Docs
presentations is 32pt.
2.In MathType's Preferences menu choose Web and GIF Preferences. Leave
everything at its default setting except in the center section, click to
place a checkmark in the box next to Smooth edges (anti-aliasing).
3.Create your equation and save it to your computer as a GIF image.
Use the Save command in the File menu for this, being careful to note where
on your computer you saved it (Desktop is convenient). To save as GIF, when
the Save As dialog is open, check the Save as type section to make sure it
says Graphics Interchange Format.
4.In Google Docs, click the Insert Image icon on the toolbar (or use
the menu command), then click Browse to find the image on your computer.
When you find it, click Open, then back in the Insert Image dialog, click
OK.
5.Move the image into position. The size of the equation should be
about right, but if you do need to resize it, drag one of the corners while
holding down the Shift key, and it will retain the proper proportion of the
equation."

Here's the link:
https://sites.google.com/a/d219.org/pdc/productivity/mathtype

Note: this method is designed for presentations not necessarily EPUB export,
but it will not render accessible math in any format. It may render math
that will fit on an EPUB page, but that only means it's portable, not
accessible.

I encourage all of you to please go back to the drawing board and run down
1. Who is your student?; 2. What is the student's disability?; 3. What is
the student's preferred electronic text? (PDF, text-to-speech, tagged PDF,
LaTex, Nemeth code.; 4. How will they access the text? What equipment or
technology do they have? Once you've answered these questions, the route
your format takes will become evident. Each one is different, and sadly
there is no easy, quick solution for any of this.

As always, I am open to input and flogging from the listserv (enlightenment)
if my information is not correct. I would love to be updated if there is in
fact a route to math accessibility in Google Docs to EPUB.

Respectfully,

Wink

Wink Harner

Adaptive Technology Consulting & Training

Alternative Text & Media Production

The Foreigntype



<mailto:foreigntype at gmail.com> foreigntype at gmail.com

<mailto:winkharner1113 at gmail.com> winkharner1113 at gmail.com



(Disclaimer: this email was dictated with Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please
forgive any quirks, mis-recognitions, or omissions.)













From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On
Behalf Of Lisa Brandt
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 1:00 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network; Samantha Johns
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs



Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a
priority.





On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns < <mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>
samanj at pdx.edu> wrote:



Hello,



Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this
format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.



I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text
for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt
Text. So that's a plus!




<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway

Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754









On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <
<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk> E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk> wrote:


Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test
software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and
looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are
included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images
won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is
nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with
SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3
<http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php>
http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php). I
didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more
complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath



On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:

Hello Athen Community,



As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to
Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and
recommendations?



Have a great day!




<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway

Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754> (503) 725-2754









--




_______________________________________________
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<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu
<http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list







--

--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
<mailto:access-tech-group at pcc.edu> access-tech-group at pcc.edu
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 03:11:35 +0000
From: Robert Beach <rbeach at KCKCC.EDU>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Athen] MathType problem
Message-ID:
<34D068EC55A9914494617A37B8D8FA84011E1A20A9 at EROS.EMPLOYEES.KCKCC.LOCAL>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hey all,

I have a MathType error that I can't figure out. My intern created a math review sheet in Word 2010 using MathType 6.9B. In the past, I was able to open the Word document into Duxbury and convert the math problems without too much trouble. However, this document gives errors on all of the math problems, but the text translates correctly. I tried it on Duxbury 11.1 (at work) and Duxbury 11.2 (at home). With Duxbury 11.1, I get an error that the file is an unsupported format and it doesn't open. At home the document opens but as I said all problems translate into errors.

Can anybody give me an idea what to try? I really need to get this going before Thursday since the student has a test Friday and I need to convert it as well as this review sheet.

Thanks all!

________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Samantha Johns [samanj at pdx.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 4:31 PM
To: Lisa Brandt
Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs

Hello Lisa,

Yes I hope they make that a priority as well.


[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png]<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Lisa Brandt <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu<mailto:lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu>> wrote:
Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a priority.


On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu<mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>> wrote:

Hello,

Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt Text. So that's a plus!


[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png]<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3 http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php). I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath


On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:
Hello Athen Community,

As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and recommendations?

Have a great day!


[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png]<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>





--




_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>
http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list





--
--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu<mailto:access-tech-group at pcc.edu>
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324<tel:%28971-722-8324>)



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 12:11:57 +0000
From: Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID:
<1a2ce0b2f49a41d390c4182831b76d36 at exch06.campus.bath.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"


Hello,

I am not sure what this has to do with MathType? I typed (and edited via keyboard) the equations directly in the Google Doc (document, not presentation) via the web interface and using the inbuilt equation editor. This uses a LaTeX type structured format - similar to typing equations directly into a Word document. Hence I know that the document contains the structure of the equation - it is rendered directly so there is almost certainly a mark up language involved somewhere.

In fact we can confirm this as the export mechanism for docx format from Google Docs produces OMML and so the equations are preserved in docx. Since OMML can be transformed to MathML via stylesheets they do effectively have the MathML but have chosen not to insert this into the EPub. They also have the LaTeX like linear format I typed which they have chosen not to retain in the document to preserve the equation and which they have chosen not to insert as an alt tag where they are generating images. The images which are generated could have been SVG which would at least have scaled well.

The reasons I care:
* I think it is reasonable to expect that text content (equations are text!) I type into a document is not thrown away without warning when I export that document to another format (I would expect to see the linear format even in the .txt export - why not?). These types of lossy conversions are how we end up with incomplete, inaccessible, poor quality or unusable scientific or mathematical documents in the first place. Maths students and staff I work with certainly see equations as text, particularly if they typed the equation, and they expect tools, conversions, exports etc. to work with them as if they were text.

* As Lisa said, if Google using EPub builds widespread buy in or helps to then I would like that buy in to include scientific and mathematical content and the tools to appropriately create and render it well for all. This sort of poor quality output is more likely to build the idea that EPub is not suitable for this content when in fact it is.

* Students use Google docs to collaborate on documents including scientific and mathematical content. This may not be sensible but it tends to happen (I have done this myself and then wished I could get anything which wasn't docx out of it). They sometimes then ask how they might export that document for their own purposes afterwards. Since all the export formats except docx currently throw away equation content I had hoped that EPub would provide another option. Now I know I should advise them that they must store and use docx and then do any transforms they want/need from there. If they are aiming for an e-book format, for whatever reason, this adds extra levels of conversion and every conversion of mathematical content introduces the risk of error.

I am fully aware of the methods mentioned below and I certainly wouldn't use Google docs as a formatting engine when creating accessible documents. However, when the document is already in that format and a student asks how to independently proceed from there it is helpful to be able to advise appropriately.

Best wishes,
Emma

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath

On 08/03/16 22:40, Wink Harner wrote:
Hi ATHENITES,

Today, I am masquerading as the magic math fairy. Waving my magic wand, I'm going to bonk on the Google Docs export to EPUB icon.**BING!** Whoops, Math Type equations have to be cut and pasted into a Google Docs, at which point they are converted to a GIF file, which all of us know "looks nice" but is generally inaccessible. Well shoot, I had to put that darn "varela" away. Bonking my math wand on Google docs just doesn?t work, doggone it all.

There are a couple of problems in converting to EPUB using Google Docs as the formatting engine. First of all there are easier ways to create accessible documents and convert to EPUB format ? Caliber (free) is one among many applications which does a fine job than using Google Docs as the formatting engine. Google Docs is a shell program which makes you think you are working in Microsoft Word when in fact you are not. Which is why MathType doesn't work as efficiently or at all in this arena.

What really confuses me is why any of us are even considering using EPUB for math output, when there is such a simple, somewhat direct (simple does not equal easy or fast!) route to take: if you want it to look nice, leave it alone in the PDF file. If it needs to be in text-to-speech, run the PDF through an OCR conversion using Infnty OCR software for the math & either Abbyy Fine Reader or Omnipage for the text portions, save into a Microsoft or a tagged PDF file, and for a student who has a reading disability, use the free CAR reader from Central Washington University, which renders math nicely in text-to-speech. Or for the student who is blind or visually impaired, and needs to use a screen reader such as JAWS or NVDA, retype using MathType. Or, you can convert to LaTex or Nemeth and export to Braille. The CAR text-to-speech reader is not yet available in the iDevice world, but it does nicely in the android and the PC World, providing a good text-to-speech output while sim!
ultaneously highlighting the math. This is good learning support for students who have reading disabilities.

I am really struggling over why we think that every platform ought to cover every color, shade, and size of disability. Surely, we have learned enough by now to know that you pick the right tool for the job, not the other way around.

If you're looking at portability, then by all means make the math look nice on a small screen. But portability is only applicable as an accommodation under certain circumstances, for example, a student who cannot carry all of the books without succumbing to a tipping factor. Or someone who cannot physically turn the pages would benefit from an electronic book format.

I have enclosed (below) , a selection from a Google how-to site specifically regarding formatting math in Google Docs:

"There is no built-in equation capability in Google Docs Presentations, but you can still use MathType to create equations for your presentations.

1. In MathType, in the Size menu choose Define, and set the font size equal to what you're using in Google Docs. Default font size in Google Docs presentations is 32pt.
2. In MathType's Preferences menu choose Web and GIF Preferences. Leave everything at its default setting except in the center section, click to place a checkmark in the box next to Smooth edges (anti-aliasing).
3. Create your equation and save it to your computer as a GIF image. Use the Save command in the File menu for this, being careful to note where on your computer you saved it (Desktop is convenient). To save as GIF, when the Save As dialog is open, check the Save as type section to make sure it says Graphics Interchange Format.
4. In Google Docs, click the Insert Image icon on the toolbar (or use the menu command), then click Browse to find the image on your computer. When you find it, click Open, then back in the Insert Image dialog, click OK.
5. Move the image into position. The size of the equation should be about right, but if you do need to resize it, drag one of the corners while holding down the Shift key, and it will retain the proper proportion of the equation."
Here's the link: <https://sites.google.com/a/d219.org/pdc/productivity/mathtype> https://sites.google.com/a/d219.org/pdc/productivity/mathtype
Note: this method is designed for presentations not necessarily EPUB export, but it will not render accessible math in any format. It may render math that will fit on an EPUB page, but that only means it's portable, not accessible.
I encourage all of you to please go back to the drawing board and run down 1. Who is your student?; 2. What is the student's disability?; 3. What is the student's preferred electronic text? (PDF, text-to-speech, tagged PDF, LaTex, Nemeth code?; 4. How will they access the text? What equipment or technology do they have? Once you've answered these questions, the route your format takes will become evident. Each one is different, and sadly there is no easy, quick solution for any of this.
As always, I am open to input and flogging from the listserv (enlightenment) if my information is not correct. I would love to be updated if there is in fact a route to math accessibility in Google Docs to EPUB.
Respectfully,
Wink
Wink Harner
Adaptive Technology Consulting & Training
Alternative Text & Media Production
The Foreigntype

<mailto:foreigntype at gmail.com>foreigntype at gmail.com<mailto:foreigntype at gmail.com>
<mailto:winkharner1113 at gmail.com>winkharner1113 at gmail.com<mailto:winkharner1113 at gmail.com>

(Disclaimer: this email was dictated with Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please forgive any quirks, mis-recognitions, or omissions.)






From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Lisa Brandt
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 1:00 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network; Samantha Johns
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs

Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a priority.


On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <<mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>samanj at pdx.edu<mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>> wrote:

Hello,

Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt Text. So that's a plus!


[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png]<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University
1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3 http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php). I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath

On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:
Hello Athen Community,

As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and recommendations?

Have a great day!


[https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png]<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University
1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>





--





_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>
http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list



--
--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu<mailto:access-tech-group at pcc.edu>
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)


--



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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 12:55:45 +0000
From: steve.noble at louisville.edu
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem
Message-ID: <C1BF3DDBA47A024DAD5CAFB0A4D8D7200157589BCA at exmbx01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Well, the most obvious first step is to be sure that both MathType and Duxbury are installed on the same machine, according to http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbt_math.asp:
"If MathType is not loaded on the same computer as DBT, then as DBT imports a Word document containing MathType material, an error message shows up in the DBT file at the location of each piece of mathematical notation in the file."

Other than that, there were a number of MathType conversion errors that were fixed in Duxbury 11.3, according to this page:
http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbtwhst.asp

You might try contacting caryn at duxsys.com or someone else on their support team. Since I don't really use DBT at a personal level, I cannot speak to other possible issues relating to that software.

Hope that helps...


--Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble



________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Robert Beach [rbeach at KCKCC.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 10:11 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: [Athen] MathType problem

Hey all,

I have a MathType error that I can't figure out. My intern created a math review sheet in Word 2010 using MathType 6.9B. In the past, I was able to open the Word document into Duxbury and convert the math problems without too much trouble. However, this document gives errors on all of the math problems, but the text translates correctly. I tried it on Duxbury 11.1 (at work) and Duxbury 11.2 (at home). With Duxbury 11.1, I get an error that the file is an unsupported format and it doesn't open. At home the document opens but as I said all problems translate into errors.

Can anybody give me an idea what to try? I really need to get this going before Thursday since the student has a test Friday and I need to convert it as well as this review sheet.

Thanks all!

________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Samantha Johns [samanj at pdx.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 4:31 PM
To: Lisa Brandt
Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs

Hello Lisa,

Yes I hope they make that a priority as well.


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Lisa Brandt <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu<mailto:lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu>> wrote:
Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a priority.


On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu<mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>> wrote:

Hello,

Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt Text. So that's a plus!


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.idpf.org_accessibility_guidelines_content_mathml_desc.php&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=nEtawkDp2ik7MSDKS77XfGZzpD783-bYJrX06GUSa-Q&e= ). I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath


On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:
Hello Athen Community,

As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and recommendations?

Have a great day!


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>





--




_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman13.u.washington.edu_mailman_listinfo_athen-2Dlist&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=DFVZem6pqYc7WZb209N4tcqPLxWM9ttGmNErQiD22wU&e=





--
--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu<mailto:access-tech-group at pcc.edu>
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324<tel:%28971-722-8324>)

_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman13.u.washington.edu_mailman_listinfo_athen-2Dlist&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=DFVZem6pqYc7WZb209N4tcqPLxWM9ttGmNErQiD22wU&e=

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 15:01:48 +0000
From: Robert Beach <rbeach at KCKCC.EDU>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem
Message-ID:
<34D068EC55A9914494617A37B8D8FA84011E1A2187 at EROS.EMPLOYEES.KCKCC.LOCAL>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello Steve,

Yes, Duxbury is installed on the same machine as Math Type. This system has worked before with producing math content in braille. The only thing that has changed is the machine the Word document was originally created on crashed and had to have a new drive installed. I reinstalled math type on the machine and things seem to be fine. But, when pulling the Word doc that was created on that machine into Duxbury on my machine, I got the math type errors. I brought the file home and tried it on my own personal machine, again with both Math Type and Duxbury installed, and got basically the same results.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give the links you provided a look over to see if I'm missing something.

________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of steve.noble at louisville.edu [steve.noble at louisville.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 6:55 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem

Well, the most obvious first step is to be sure that both MathType and Duxbury are installed on the same machine, according to http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbt_math.asp:
"If MathType is not loaded on the same computer as DBT, then as DBT imports a Word document containing MathType material, an error message shows up in the DBT file at the location of each piece of mathematical notation in the file."

Other than that, there were a number of MathType conversion errors that were fixed in Duxbury 11.3, according to this page:
http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbtwhst.asp

You might try contacting caryn at duxsys.com or someone else on their support team. Since I don't really use DBT at a personal level, I cannot speak to other possible issues relating to that software.

Hope that helps...


--Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble



________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Robert Beach [rbeach at KCKCC.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 10:11 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: [Athen] MathType problem

Hey all,

I have a MathType error that I can't figure out. My intern created a math review sheet in Word 2010 using MathType 6.9B. In the past, I was able to open the Word document into Duxbury and convert the math problems without too much trouble. However, this document gives errors on all of the math problems, but the text translates correctly. I tried it on Duxbury 11.1 (at work) and Duxbury 11.2 (at home). With Duxbury 11.1, I get an error that the file is an unsupported format and it doesn't open. At home the document opens but as I said all problems translate into errors.

Can anybody give me an idea what to try? I really need to get this going before Thursday since the student has a test Friday and I need to convert it as well as this review sheet.

Thanks all!

________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Samantha Johns [samanj at pdx.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 4:31 PM
To: Lisa Brandt
Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs

Hello Lisa,

Yes I hope they make that a priority as well.


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Lisa Brandt <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu<mailto:lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu>> wrote:
Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a priority.


On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu<mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>> wrote:

Hello,

Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt Text. So that's a plus!


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.idpf.org_accessibility_guidelines_content_mathml_desc.php&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=nEtawkDp2ik7MSDKS77XfGZzpD783-bYJrX06GUSa-Q&e= ). I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath


On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:
Hello Athen Community,

As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and recommendations?

Have a great day!


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>





--




_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman13.u.washington.edu_mailman_listinfo_athen-2Dlist&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=DFVZem6pqYc7WZb209N4tcqPLxWM9ttGmNErQiD22wU&e=





--
--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu<mailto:access-tech-group at pcc.edu>
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324<tel:%28971-722-8324>)

_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman13.u.washington.edu_mailman_listinfo_athen-2Dlist&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=DFVZem6pqYc7WZb209N4tcqPLxWM9ttGmNErQiD22wU&e=
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu
http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 15:51:45 +0000
From: "Mark C. Mintz" <mmintz at pasadena.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem
Message-ID: <F8B04F087A0C914B8A99B2D22E9D94DB2FB4EC58 at ExchangeA>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Robert,

Is it the error that puts "[MATHTYPE TRANSLATION ERROR]" or something like that instead of the equation? Though I'm not really sure all of the reason behind it, I've found it is usually the caused by rogue spaces in the mathtype. My student worker sometimes causes this by copying from the original pdf and pasting into mathtype then fix the formatting.

Usually I can fix it by arrowing through the whole equation to find the space. If that doesn't work, you can tell which equations are having issues, so recreate those equations manually. I'm pretty sure the problem is a character in the math that Duxbury just can't figure out what to do with, and instead of ignoring (as most programs would) it throws an error, which is good because then you know something will be wonky with the braille if you create it as is.

Lately I've also started looking at the latex (Toggle TeX in the mathtype tab) to troubleshoot. You can usually tell if something looks wrong.

Good luck,

Mark Mintz
Alt Media Specialist
Pasadena City College
Room D201A
626-585-7107
X7107

-----Original Message-----
From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Beach
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 7:02 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem

Hello Steve,

Yes, Duxbury is installed on the same machine as Math Type. This system has worked before with producing math content in braille. The only thing that has changed is the machine the Word document was originally created on crashed and had to have a new drive installed. I reinstalled math type on the machine and things seem to be fine. But, when pulling the Word doc that was created on that machine into Duxbury on my machine, I got the math type errors. I brought the file home and tried it on my own personal machine, again with both Math Type and Duxbury installed, and got basically the same results.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give the links you provided a look over to see if I'm missing something.

________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of steve.noble at louisville.edu [steve.noble at louisville.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 6:55 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem

Well, the most obvious first step is to be sure that both MathType and Duxbury are installed on the same machine, according to http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbt_math.asp:
"If MathType is not loaded on the same computer as DBT, then as DBT imports a Word document containing MathType material, an error message shows up in the DBT file at the location of each piece of mathematical notation in the file."

Other than that, there were a number of MathType conversion errors that were fixed in Duxbury 11.3, according to this page:
http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbtwhst.asp

You might try contacting caryn at duxsys.com or someone else on their support team. Since I don't really use DBT at a personal level, I cannot speak to other possible issues relating to that software.

Hope that helps...


--Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble



________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Robert Beach [rbeach at KCKCC.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 10:11 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: [Athen] MathType problem

Hey all,

I have a MathType error that I can't figure out. My intern created a math review sheet in Word 2010 using MathType 6.9B. In the past, I was able to open the Word document into Duxbury and convert the math problems without too much trouble. However, this document gives errors on all of the math problems, but the text translates correctly. I tried it on Duxbury 11.1 (at work) and Duxbury 11.2 (at home). With Duxbury 11.1, I get an error that the file is an unsupported format and it doesn't open. At home the document opens but as I said all problems translate into errors.

Can anybody give me an idea what to try? I really need to get this going before Thursday since the student has a test Friday and I need to convert it as well as this review sheet.

Thanks all!

________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Samantha Johns [samanj at pdx.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 4:31 PM
To: Lisa Brandt
Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs

Hello Lisa,

Yes I hope they make that a priority as well.


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209 Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Lisa Brandt <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu<mailto:lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu>> wrote:
Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a priority.


On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu<mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>> wrote:

Hello,

Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt Text. So that's a plus!


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209 Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.idpf.org_accessibility_guidelines_content_mathml_desc.php&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=nEtawkDp2ik7MSDKS77XfGZzpD783-bYJrX06GUSa-Q&e= ). I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer University of Bath


On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:
Hello Athen Community,

As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and recommendations?

Have a great day!


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209 Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>





--




_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman13.u.washington.edu_mailman_listinfo_athen-2Dlist&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=DFVZem6pqYc7WZb209N4tcqPLxWM9ttGmNErQiD22wU&e=





--
--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu<mailto:access-tech-group at pcc.edu>
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324<tel:%28971-722-8324>)

_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
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https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman13.u.washington.edu_mailman_listinfo_athen-2Dlist&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=DFVZem6pqYc7WZb209N4tcqPLxWM9ttGmNErQiD22wU&e=
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
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http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
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http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 16:15:43 +0000
From: Todd Schwanke <todd.schwanke at wisc.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem
Message-ID:
<BY2PR06MB2198462583236C9C2982931195B30 at BY2PR06MB2198.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Robert:

Some things to check or try (you may have done some of these already) to try to narrow down whether it is the software, the file, or the equation editing the intern is doing.

* Rerun Word documents that you had previously run through successfully to see if they work and if the problem is specific to this document.
* If it is saved as a .docx, save as a .doc and vice versa, and then try to convert again.
* Was the new file in question created with a 64 bit version of Word rather than a 32 bit?
* If you haven't already, try creating a new Word document with a simple equation on the machine that you are using for the conversion, and then process that. If it is successful, then recreate a couple of equations from the math review sheet from scratch and see if they convert. If that is successful, then break the review sheet down into smaller pieces and see if chunks of it work. If that doesn't work but a new document does, then you may be able to copy some of the Latex code into a new document to see if you can save some of the equation work and get them to convert.

Todd Schwanke
UW-Madison




-----Original Message-----
From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Beach
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 9:02 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem

Hello Steve,

Yes, Duxbury is installed on the same machine as Math Type. This system has worked before with producing math content in braille. The only thing that has changed is the machine the Word document was originally created on crashed and had to have a new drive installed. I reinstalled math type on the machine and things seem to be fine. But, when pulling the Word doc that was created on that machine into Duxbury on my machine, I got the math type errors. I brought the file home and tried it on my own personal machine, again with both Math Type and Duxbury installed, and got basically the same results.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give the links you provided a look over to see if I'm missing something.

________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of steve.noble at louisville.edu [steve.noble at louisville.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 6:55 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType problem

Well, the most obvious first step is to be sure that both MathType and Duxbury are installed on the same machine, according to http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbt_math.asp:
"If MathType is not loaded on the same computer as DBT, then as DBT imports a Word document containing MathType material, an error message shows up in the DBT file at the location of each piece of mathematical notation in the file."

Other than that, there were a number of MathType conversion errors that were fixed in Duxbury 11.3, according to this page:
http://www.duxburysystems.com/dbtwhst.asp

You might try contacting caryn at duxsys.com or someone else on their support team. Since I don't really use DBT at a personal level, I cannot speak to other possible issues relating to that software.

Hope that helps...


--Steve Noble
steve.noble at louisville.edu
502-969-3088
http://louisville.academia.edu/SteveNoble



________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Robert Beach [rbeach at KCKCC.EDU]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 10:11 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: [Athen] MathType problem

Hey all,

I have a MathType error that I can't figure out. My intern created a math review sheet in Word 2010 using MathType 6.9B. In the past, I was able to open the Word document into Duxbury and convert the math problems without too much trouble. However, this document gives errors on all of the math problems, but the text translates correctly. I tried it on Duxbury 11.1 (at work) and Duxbury 11.2 (at home). With Duxbury 11.1, I get an error that the file is an unsupported format and it doesn't open. At home the document opens but as I said all problems translate into errors.

Can anybody give me an idea what to try? I really need to get this going before Thursday since the student has a test Friday and I need to convert it as well as this review sheet.

Thanks all!

________________________________________
From: athen-list [athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] on behalf of Samantha Johns [samanj at pdx.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 4:31 PM
To: Lisa Brandt
Cc: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs

Hello Lisa,

Yes I hope they make that a priority as well.


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209 Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Lisa Brandt <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu<mailto:lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu>> wrote:
Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a priority.


On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu<mailto:samanj at pdx.edu>> wrote:

Hello,

Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt Text. So that's a plus!


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209 Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>




On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>> wrote:

Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.idpf.org_accessibility_guidelines_content_mathml_desc.php&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=nEtawkDp2ik7MSDKS77XfGZzpD783-bYJrX06GUSa-Q&e= ). I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer University of Bath


On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:
Hello Athen Community,

As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and recommendations?

Have a great day!


[https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dl.dropboxusercontent.com_u_329486_OAI-5FSigPic.png&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=78AdPi1SyL29j7NnpxFGICOKUkWg-HQVocSl1j2t_p0&e= ]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pdx.edu_oai_&d=AwICAg&c=SgMrq23dbjbGX6e0ZsSHgEZX6A4IAf1SO3AJ2bNrHlk&r=4WMck1ZVLo4tV0IVllcBNKXCSGU6lUERtx_4HD4DqmE&m=pacGai-K7EaphYlaPwGvm0qcdtBDcekZUN50MbVL_2o&s=ENLe5LeMm-rHVpOFd8PvjaJ9aoHoNca0urhHeO9kn34&e= >

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209 Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754<tel:%28503%29%20725-2754>





--




_______________________________________________
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--
--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu<mailto:access-tech-group at pcc.edu>
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324<tel:%28971-722-8324>)

_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 09:40:51 -0800
From: Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID:
<CAD9FakTQPukdNa04Xv5C_DPyXqO78J-PkDPS6B5RHEii5XNyfQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello,

Math is a complex area for me, but I do think that any authoring software
should be robust and include all accessibility conventions. This is
especially important for Universal Design as applies to Instructors,
Librarians, and many others authoring content digitally. Most people will
not take the time to do an unreasonable amount of steps while authoring
material, the more developers build and code for accessibility the better.

Have a great day,






* <http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>*

*Samantha Johns*

*Accessibility & **Course Support Specialist *

Portland State University
1825 SW Broadway
Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754




On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 4:11 AM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk> wrote:


>

> Hello,

>

> I am not sure what this has to do with MathType? I typed (and edited via

> keyboard) the equations directly in the Google Doc (document, not

> presentation) via the web interface and using the inbuilt equation editor.

> This uses a LaTeX type structured format - similar to typing equations

> directly into a Word document. Hence I know that the document contains the

> structure of the equation - it is rendered directly so there is almost

> certainly a mark up language involved somewhere.

>

> In fact we can confirm this as the export mechanism for docx format from

> Google Docs produces OMML and so the equations are preserved in docx. Since

> OMML can be transformed to MathML via stylesheets they do effectively have

> the MathML but have chosen not to insert this into the EPub. They also have

> the LaTeX like linear format I typed which they have chosen not to retain

> in the document to preserve the equation and which they have chosen not to

> insert as an alt tag where they are generating images. The images which are

> generated could have been SVG which would at least have scaled well.

>

> The reasons I care:

> * I think it is reasonable to expect that text content (equations are

> text!) I type into a document is not thrown away without warning when I

> export that document to another format (I would expect to see the linear

> format even in the .txt export - why not?). These types of lossy

> conversions are how we end up with incomplete, inaccessible, poor quality

> or unusable scientific or mathematical documents in the first place. Maths

> students and staff I work with certainly see equations as text,

> particularly if they typed the equation, and they expect tools,

> conversions, exports etc. to work with them as if they were text.

>

> * As Lisa said, if Google using EPub builds widespread buy in or helps to

> then I would like that buy in to include scientific and mathematical

> content and the tools to appropriately create and render it well for all.

> This sort of poor quality output is more likely to build the idea that EPub

> is not suitable for this content when in fact it is.

>

> * Students use Google docs to collaborate on documents including

> scientific and mathematical content. This may not be sensible but it tends

> to happen (I have done this myself and then wished I could get anything

> which wasn't docx out of it). They sometimes then ask how they might export

> that document for their own purposes afterwards. Since all the export

> formats except docx currently throw away equation content I had hoped that

> EPub would provide another option. Now I know I should advise them that

> they must store and use docx and then do any transforms they want/need from

> there. If they are aiming for an e-book format, for whatever reason, this

> adds extra levels of conversion and every conversion of mathematical

> content introduces the risk of error.

>

> I am fully aware of the methods mentioned below and I certainly wouldn't

> use Google docs as a formatting engine when creating accessible documents.

> However, when the document is already in that format and a student asks how

> to independently proceed from there it is helpful to be able to advise

> appropriately.

>

> Best wishes,

> Emma

>

> Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer

> University of Bath

>

> On 08/03/16 22:40, Wink Harner wrote:

>

> Hi ATHENITES,

>

>

>

> Today, I am masquerading as the magic math fairy. Waving my magic wand,

> I'm going to bonk on the Google Docs export to EPUB icon.**BING!** Whoops,

> Math Type equations have to be cut and pasted into a Google Docs, at which

> point they are converted to a GIF file, which all of us know "looks nice"

> but is generally inaccessible. Well shoot, I had to put that darn "varela"

> away. Bonking my math wand on Google docs just doesn?t work, doggone it

> all.

>

>

>

> There are a couple of problems in converting to EPUB using Google Docs as

> the formatting engine. First of all there are easier ways to create

> accessible documents and convert to EPUB format ? Caliber (free) is one

> among many applications which does a fine job than using Google Docs as the

> formatting engine. Google Docs is a shell program which makes you think you

> are working in Microsoft Word when in fact you are not. Which is why

> MathType doesn't work as efficiently or at all in this arena.

>

>

>

> What really confuses me is why any of us are even considering using EPUB

> for math output, when there is such a simple, somewhat direct (simple does

> not equal easy or fast!) route to take: if you want it to look nice, leave

> it alone in the PDF file. If it needs to be in text-to-speech, run the PDF

> through an OCR conversion using Infnty OCR software for the math & either

> Abbyy Fine Reader or Omnipage for the text portions, save into a Microsoft

> or a tagged PDF file, and for a student who has a reading disability, use

> the free CAR reader from Central Washington University, which renders math

> nicely in text-to-speech. Or for the student who is blind or visually

> impaired, and needs to use a screen reader such as JAWS or NVDA, retype

> using MathType. Or, you can convert to LaTex or Nemeth and export to

> Braille. The CAR text-to-speech reader is not yet available in the iDevice

> world, but it does nicely in the android and the PC World, providing a good

> text-to-speech output while simultaneously highlighting the math. This is

> good learning support for students who have reading disabilities.

>

>

>

> I am really struggling over why we think that every platform ought to

> cover every color, shade, and size of disability. Surely, we have learned

> enough by now to know that you pick the right tool for the job, not the

> other way around.

>

>

>

> If you're looking at portability, then by all means make the math look

> nice on a small screen. But portability is only applicable as an

> accommodation under certain circumstances, for example, a student who

> cannot carry all of the books without succumbing to a tipping factor. Or

> someone who cannot physically turn the pages would benefit from an

> electronic book format.

>

>

>

> I have enclosed (below) , a selection from a Google how-to site

> specifically regarding formatting math in Google Docs:

>

>

> "There is no built-in equation capability in Google Docs Presentations,

> but you can still use MathType to create equations for your presentations.

>

> 1. In MathType, in the* Size* menu choose* Define*, and set the font

> size equal to what you're using in Google Docs. Default font size in Google

> Docs presentations is 32pt.

> 2. In MathType's *Preferences* menu choose *Web and GIF Preferences*.

> Leave everything at its default setting except in the center section, click

> to place a checkmark in the box next to *Smooth edges (anti-aliasing)*.

> 3. Create your equation and save it to your computer as a GIF image.

> Use the *Save* command in the *File *menu for this, being careful to

> note where on your computer you saved it (Desktop is convenient). To save

> as GIF, when the *Save As* dialog is open, check the* Save as type*

> section to make sure it says* Graphics Interchange Format*.

> 4. In Google Docs, click the *Insert Image* icon on the toolbar (or

> use the menu command), then click *Browse* to find the image on your

> computer. When you find it, click *Open*, then back in the *Insert

> Image* dialog, click *OK*.

> 5. Move the image into position. The size of the equation should be

> about right, but if you do need to resize it, drag one of the corners *while

> holding down the Shift key*, and it will retain the proper proportion

> of the equation."

>

> Here's the link:

> <https://sites.google.com/a/d219.org/pdc/productivity/mathtype>

> https://sites.google.com/a/d219.org/pdc/productivity/mathtype

>

> Note: this method is designed for presentations not necessarily EPUB

> export, but it will not render accessible math in any format. It may render

> math that will fit on an EPUB page, but that only means it's portable, not

> accessible.

>

> I encourage all of you to please go back to the drawing board and run down

> 1. Who is your student?; 2. What is the student's disability?; 3. What is

> the student's preferred electronic text? (PDF, text-to-speech, tagged PDF,

> LaTex, Nemeth code?; 4. How will they access the text? What equipment or

> technology do they have? Once you've answered these questions, the route

> your format takes will become evident. Each one is different, and sadly

> there is no easy, quick solution for any of this.

>

> As always, I am open to input and flogging from the listserv

> (enlightenment) if my information is not correct. I would love to be

> updated if there is in fact a route to math accessibility in Google Docs to

> EPUB.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Wink

>

> Wink Harner

>

> Adaptive Technology Consulting & Training

>

> Alternative Text & Media Production

>

> The Foreigntype

>

>

>

> <foreigntype at gmail.com>foreigntype at gmail.com

>

> <winkharner1113 at gmail.com>winkharner1113 at gmail.com

>

>

>

> (Disclaimer: this email was dictated with Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please

> forgive any quirks, mis-recognitions, or omissions.)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu

> <athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Lisa

> Brandt

> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 08, 2016 1:00 PM

> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network; Samantha Johns

> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs

>

>

>

> Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a

> priority.

>

>

>

>

>

> On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns < <samanj at pdx.edu>

> samanj at pdx.edu> wrote:

>

>

>

> Hello,

>

>

>

> Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this

> format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.

>

>

>

> I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text

> for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt

> Text. So that's a plus!

>

>

> *[image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png]*

> <http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

>

> *Samantha Johns*

>

> *Accessibility & Course Support Specialist *

>

> Portland State University

>

> 1825 SW Broadway

>

> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

> Portland OR 97201

> (503) 725-2754

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe < <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>

> E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk> wrote:

>

>

> Hello,

>

> Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full

> test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the

> EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images

> (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means

> that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow

> badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

>

> This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with

> SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3

> http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php). I

> didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more

> complex structural elements though.

>

> Best wishes,

> Emma Cliffe

>

> Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer

> University of Bath

>

>

>

> On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:

>

> Hello Athen Community,

>

>

>

> As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to

> Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this

> and recommendations?

>

>

>

> Have a great day!

>

>

> *[image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/329486/OAI_SigPic.png]*

> <http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

>

> *Samantha Johns*

>

> *Accessibility & Course Support Specialist *

>

> Portland State University

>

> 1825 SW Broadway

>

> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

> Portland OR 97201

> (503) 725-2754

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> athen-list mailing list

> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu

> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

>

>

>

>

>

> --

>

> --

> Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services

> Accessibility Technician

> Alternate Media Formats Technician

> SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

>

> Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:

> access-tech-group at pcc.edu

> 971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)

>

>

> --

>

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> athen-list mailing list

> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu

> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

>

>

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------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2016 09:48:11 -0800
From: "Lisa Brandt" <lisa.brandt1 at pcc.edu>
To: "Access Technology Higher Education Network"
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>,"Samantha Johns" <samanj at pdx.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID: <op.yd2jqlkey0q16n at dc400x7800.clients.ad.pcc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed";
DelSp="yes"

I think we should all probably be cutting and pasting these messages into
Google's "Send Feedback" form. <smile>

Lisa

On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 09:40:51 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu> wrote:


> Hello,

>

> Math is a complex area for me, but I do think that any authoring

> software should be robust and include all accessibility conventions.

> This is especially important for >Universal Design as applies to

> Instructors, Librarians, and many others authoring content digitally.

> Most people will not take the time to do an unreasonable amount >of

> steps while authoring material, the more developers build and code for

> accessibility the better.

> Have a great day,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Samantha Johns

>

> Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

> Portland State University

> 1825 SW Broadway

> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

> Portland OR 97201

> (503) 725-2754

>

>

>

>

>> On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 4:11 AM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>

>> wrote:

>>

>> Hello,

>>

>> I am not sure what this has to do with MathType? I typed (and edited

>> via keyboard) the equations directly in the Google Doc (document, not

>> presentation) via the >>web interface and using the inbuilt equation

>> editor. This uses a LaTeX type structured format - similar to typing

>> equations directly into a Word document. Hence I >>know that the

>> document contains the structure of the equation - it is rendered

>> directly so there is almost certainly a mark up language involved

>> somewhere.

>> In fact we can confirm this as the export mechanism for docx format

>> from Google Docs produces OMML and so the equations are preserved in

>> docx. Since OMML >>can be transformed to MathML via stylesheets they do

>> effectively have the MathML but have chosen not to insert this into the

>> EPub. They also have the LaTeX like >>linear format I typed which they

>> have chosen not to retain in the document to preserve the equation and

>> which they have chosen not to insert as an alt tag where >>they are

>> generating images. The images which are generated could have been SVG

>> which would at least have scaled well.

>> The reasons I care:

>> * I think it is reasonable to expect that text content (equations are

>> text!) I type into a document is not thrown away without warning when I

>> export that document to >>another format (I would expect to see the

>> linear format even in the .txt export - why not?). These types of lossy

>> conversions are how we end up with incomplete, >>inaccessible, poor

>> quality or unusable scientific or mathematical documents in the first

>> place. Maths students and staff I work with certainly see equations as

>> text, >>particularly if they typed the equation, and they expect tools,

>> conversions, exports etc. to work with them as if they were text.

>> * As Lisa said, if Google using EPub builds widespread buy in or helps

>> to then I would like that buy in to include scientific and mathematical

>> content and the tools >>to appropriately create and render it well for

>> all. This sort of poor quality output is more likely to build the idea

>> that EPub is not suitable for this content when in fact >>it is.

>> * Students use Google docs to collaborate on documents including

>> scientific and mathematical content. This may not be sensible but it

>> tends to happen (I have >>done this myself and then wished I could get

>> anything which wasn't docx out of it). They sometimes then ask how they

>> might export that document for their own >>purposes afterwards. Since

>> all the export formats except docx currently throw away equation

>> content I had hoped that EPub would provide another option. Now I

>> >>know I should advise them that they must store and use docx and then

>> do any transforms they want/need from there. If they are aiming for an

>> e-book format, for >>whatever reason, this adds extra levels of

>> conversion and every conversion of mathematical content introduces the

>> risk of error.

>> I am fully aware of the methods mentioned below and I certainly

>> wouldn't use Google docs as a formatting engine when creating

>> accessible documents. However, >>when the document is already in that

>> format and a student asks how to independently proceed from there it is

>> helpful to be able to advise appropriately.

>> Best wishes,

>> Emma

>>

>> Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer

>> University of Bath

>>

>> On 08/03/16 22:40, Wink Harner wrote:

>>>

>>> Hi ATHENITES,

>>>

>>>

>>> Today, I am masquerading as the magic math fairy. Waving my magic

>>> wand, I'm going to bonk on the Google Docs export to EPUB

>>> >>>icon.**BING!** Whoops, Math Type equations have to be cut and

>>> pasted into a Google Docs, at which point they are converted to a

>>> >>>GIF file, which all of us know "looks nice" but is generally

>>> inaccessible. Well shoot, I had to put that darn "varela" away.

>>> Bonking my >>>math wand on Google docs just doesn?t work, doggone it

>>> all.

>>>

>>> There are a couple of problems in converting to EPUB using Google Docs

>>> as the formatting engine. First of all there are easier ways to

>>> >>>create accessible documents and convert to EPUB format ? Caliber

>>> (free) is one among many applications which does a fine job than

>>> >>>using Google Docs as the formatting engine. Google Docs is a shell

>>> program which makes you think you are working in Microsoft >>>Word

>>> when in fact you are not. Which is why MathType doesn't work as

>>> efficiently or at all in this arena.

>>>

>>> What really confuses me is why any of us are even considering using

>>> EPUB for math output, when there is such a simple, somewhat >>>direct

>>> (simple does not equal easy or fast!) route to take: if you want it to

>>> look nice, leave it alone in the PDF file. If it needs to be in

>>> >>>text-to-speech, run the PDF through an OCR conversion using Infnty

>>> OCR software for the math & either Abbyy Fine Reader or >>>Omnipage

>>> for the text portions, save into a Microsoft or a tagged PDF file, and

>>> for a student who has a reading disability, use the free >>>CAR reader

>>> from Central Washington University, which renders math nicely in

>>> text-to-speech. Or for the student who is blind or >>>visually

>>> impaired, and needs to use a screen reader such as JAWS or NVDA,

>>> retype using MathType. Or, you can convert to LaTex or >>>Nemeth and

>>> export to Braille. The CAR text-to-speech reader is not yet available

>>> in the iDevice world, but it does nicely in the android >>>and the PC

>>> World, providing a good text-to-speech output while simultaneously

>>> highlighting the math. This is good learning support >>>for students

>>> who have reading disabilities.

>>>

>>>

>>> I am really struggling over why we think that every platform ought to

>>> cover every color, shade, and size of disability. Surely, we have

>>> >>>learned enough by now to know that you pick the right tool for the

>>> job, not the other way around.

>>>

>>>

>>> If you're looking at portability, then by all means make the math look

>>> nice on a small screen. But portability is only applicable as an

>>> >>>accommodation under certain circumstances, for example, a student

>>> who cannot carry all of the books without succumbing to a >>>tipping

>>> factor. Or someone who cannot physically turn the pages would benefit

>>> from an electronic book format.

>>>

>>> I have enclosed (below) , a selection from a Google how-to site

>>> specifically regarding formatting math in Google Docs:

>>>

>>>"There is no built-in equation capability in Google Docs

>>> Presentations, but you can still use MathType to create equations for

>>> your >>>presentations.

>>> In MathType, in the Size menu choose Define, and set the font size

>>> equal to what you're using in Google Docs. Default font size in Google

>>> >>>Docs presentations is 32pt.In MathType's Preferences menu choose

>>> Web and GIF Preferences. Leave everything at its default setting

>>> except in the center section, >>>click to place a checkmark in the box

>>> next to Smooth edges (anti-aliasing).Create your equation and save it

>>> to your computer as a GIF image. Use the Save command in the File menu

>>> for this, being careful to note >>>where on your computer you saved it

>>> (Desktop is convenient). To save as GIF, when the Save As dialog is

>>> open, check the Save as type >>>section to make sure it says Graphics

>>> Interchange Format.In Google Docs, click the Insert Image icon on the

>>> toolbar (or use the menu command), then click Browse to find the image

>>> on your >>>computer. When you find it, click Open, then back in the

>>> Insert Image dialog, click OK.Move the image into position. The size

>>> of the equation should be about right, but if you do need to resize

>>> it, drag one of the corners while >>>holding down the Shift key, and

>>> it will retain the proper proportion of the equation."

>>> Here's the link:

>>> https://sites.google.com/a/d219.org/pdc/productivity/mathtype

>>>

>>> Note: this method is designed for presentations not necessarily EPUB

>>> export, but it will not render accessible math in any format. It

>>> >>>may render math that will fit on an EPUB page, but that only means

>>> it's portable, not accessible.

>>>

>>> I encourage all of you to please go back to the drawing board and run

>>> down 1. Who is your student?; 2. What is the student's >>>disability?;

>>> 3. What is the student's preferred electronic text? (PDF,

>>> text-to-speech, tagged PDF, LaTex, Nemeth code?; 4. How will >>>they

>>> access the text? What equipment or technology do they have? Once

>>> you've answered these questions, the route your format >>>takes will

>>> become evident. Each one is different, and sadly there is no easy,

>>> quick solution for any of this.

>>> As always, I am open to input and flogging from the listserv

>>> (enlightenment) if my information is not correct. I would love to be

>>> >>>updated if there is in fact a route to math accessibility in Google

>>> Docs to EPUB.

>>>

>>> Respectfully,

>>>

>>> Wink

>>>

>>> Wink Harner

>>>

>>> Adaptive Technology Consulting & Training

>>>

>>> Alternative Text & Media Production

>>>

>>> The Foreigntype

>>>

>>>

>>> foreigntype at gmail.com

>>>

>>> winkharner1113 at gmail.com

>>>

>>>

>>> (Disclaimer: this email was dictated with Dragon NaturallySpeaking.

>>> Please forgive any quirks, mis-recognitions, or omissions.)

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> From: athen-list

>>> [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of

>>> Lisa Brandt

>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 1:00 PM

>>> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network; Samantha Johns

>>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs

>>>

>>>

>>> Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make

>>> that a priority.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu>

>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Hello,

>>>>

>>>> Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to

>>>> this format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support

>>>> >>>>math equations.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt

>>>> text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and

>>>> >>>>read the Alt Text. So that's a plus!

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Samantha Johns

>>>>

>>>> Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

>>>> Portland State University

>>>>

>>>> 1825 SW Broadway

>>>>

>>>> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

>>>> Portland OR 97201

>>>> (503) 725-2754

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>

>>>> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>>>>> Hello,

>>>>

>>>> Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have

>>>> full test software here at home but from what I could see from

>>>> >>>>unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations

>>>> are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without

>>>> >>>>alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well

>>>> (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to

>>>> be read >>>>aloud.

>>>> This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML

>>>> with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3

>>>> http://www.idpf.org/>>>>accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php).

>>>> I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other

>>>> more complex >>>>structural elements though.

>>>> Best wishes,

>>>> Emma Cliffe

>>>>

>>>> Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer

>>>> University of Bath

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> Hello Athen Community,

>>>>>

>>>>> As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to

>>>>> export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think >>>>>about

>>>>> the benefits of this and recommendations?

>>>>>

>>>>> Have a great day!

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Samantha Johns

>>>>>

>>>>> Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

>>>>> Portland State University

>>>>>

>>>>> 1825 SW Broadway

>>>>>

>>>>> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209

>>>>> Portland OR 97201

>>>>> (503) 725-2754

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>--

>>>>

>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>> athen-list mailing list

>>>> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu

>>>> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>>>> --

>>>

>>> --

>>> Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services

>>> Accessibility Technician

>>> Alternate Media Formats Technician

>>> SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

>>>

>>> Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:

>>> access-tech-group at pcc.edu

>>> 971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)

>>

>> --

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> athen-list mailing list

>> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu

>> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

>>

>




--
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)
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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 18:03:11 +0000
From: "Hunziker, Dawn A - (hunziker)" <hunziker at email.arizona.edu>
To: "'Access Technology Higher Education Network'"
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Athen] AHEAD/ATHEN Webinar March 15th - Discount Available!
Message-ID:
<15d6d7e021ee418a8fd6e4102f83c97a at TURQUOISE.catnet.arizona.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

ATHEN Members,

Did you know that as an ATHEN Member you qualify for a discount on any AHEAD webinars? There is an upcoming webinar on March 15, 2016:

The Student Interview: A Tool for Gaining Essential Information

Melanie Thornton-University of Arkansas
Teresa Haven-Northern Arizona University
Others TBD
Understanding a student's disability experience is a core skill for disability resource professionals that involves the ability to listen, ask informed questions, reflect, analyze, and apply professional judgment. The initial conversation with the student is a powerful tool in acquiring the information necessary for decision-making and often sets the tone for the student's perception of the disability resource office. In this session, the facilitators will discuss strategies and provide a model for the student interview process that uses self-report, professional judgment, and third-party documentation to focus on barrier removal in physical and virtual environments and create a campus culture of access and inclusion.

Audience: All

Cost for ATHEN Members to attend this and any of the other AHEAD Webinar sessions (http://ahead.org/learn/virtual-learning/at_webinars_15_16 or http://ahead.org/learn/virtual-learning/webinars) is the same as AHEAD members. When registering for the webinar, choose the option for "I qualify for AHEAD member rates" to get your discount!

We hope you take advantage of this benefit!

ATHEN Executive Committee

~~
Dawn Hunziker
IT Accessibility Consultant

Disability Resource Center
520-626-9409
hunziker at email.arizona.edu<mailto:hunziker at email.arizona.edu>

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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 10:14:20 -0800
From: "Wink Harner" <foreigntype at gmail.com>
To: "'Access Technology Higher Education Network'"
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs
Message-ID: <004201d17a2f$80e507c0$82af1740$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I think Lisa has a good idea! Let?s let Google know.





Wink Harner

Adaptive Technology Consulting & Training

Alternative Text & Media Production

The Foreigntype



<mailto:foreigntype at gmail.com> foreigntype at gmail.com

<mailto:winkharner1113 at gmail.com> winkharner1113 at gmail.com



(Disclaimer: this email was dictated with Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please forgive any quirks, mis-recognitions, or omissions.)







From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Lisa Brandt
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 9:48 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network; Samantha Johns
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs



I think we should all probably be cutting and pasting these messages into Google's "Send Feedback" form. <smile>



Lisa



On Wed, 09 Mar 2016 09:40:51 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu> wrote:



Hello,



Math is a complex area for me, but I do think that any authoring software should be robust and include all accessibility conventions. This is especially important for Universal Design as applies to Instructors, Librarians, and many others authoring content digitally. Most people will not take the time to do an unreasonable amount of steps while authoring material, the more developers build and code for accessibility the better.



Have a great day,












<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

1825 SW Broadway

Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754









On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 4:11 AM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk> wrote:


Hello,

I am not sure what this has to do with MathType? I typed (and edited via keyboard) the equations directly in the Google Doc (document, not presentation) via the web interface and using the inbuilt equation editor. This uses a LaTeX type structured format - similar to typing equations directly into a Word document. Hence I know that the document contains the structure of the equation - it is rendered directly so there is almost certainly a mark up language involved somewhere.

In fact we can confirm this as the export mechanism for docx format from Google Docs produces OMML and so the equations are preserved in docx. Since OMML can be transformed to MathML via stylesheets they do effectively have the MathML but have chosen not to insert this into the EPub. They also have the LaTeX like linear format I typed which they have chosen not to retain in the document to preserve the equation and which they have chosen not to insert as an alt tag where they are generating images. The images which are generated could have been SVG which would at least have scaled well.

The reasons I care:
* I think it is reasonable to expect that text content (equations are text!) I type into a document is not thrown away without warning when I export that document to another format (I would expect to see the linear format even in the .txt export - why not?). These types of lossy conversions are how we end up with incomplete, inaccessible, poor quality or unusable scientific or mathematical documents in the first place. Maths students and staff I work with certainly see equations as text, particularly if they typed the equation, and they expect tools, conversions, exports etc. to work with them as if they were text.

* As Lisa said, if Google using EPub builds widespread buy in or helps to then I would like that buy in to include scientific and mathematical content and the tools to appropriately create and render it well for all. This sort of poor quality output is more likely to build the idea that EPub is not suitable for this content when in fact it is.

* Students use Google docs to collaborate on documents including scientific and mathematical content. This may not be sensible but it tends to happen (I have done this myself and then wished I could get anything which wasn't docx out of it). They sometimes then ask how they might export that document for their own purposes afterwards. Since all the export formats except docx currently throw away equation content I had hoped that EPub would provide another option. Now I know I should advise them that they must store and use docx and then do any transforms they want/need from there. If they are aiming for an e-book format, for whatever reason, this adds extra levels of conversion and every conversion of mathematical content introduces the risk of error.

I am fully aware of the methods mentioned below and I certainly wouldn't use Google docs as a formatting engine when creating accessible documents. However, when the document is already in that format and a student asks how to independently proceed from there it is helpful to be able to advise appropriately.

Best wishes,
Emma

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath

On 08/03/16 22:40, Wink Harner wrote:

Hi ATHENITES,



Today, I am masquerading as the magic math fairy. Waving my magic wand, I'm going to bonk on the Google Docs export to EPUB icon.**BING!** Whoops, Math Type equations have to be cut and pasted into a Google Docs, at which point they are converted to a GIF file, which all of us know "looks nice" but is generally inaccessible. Well shoot, I had to put that darn "varela" away. Bonking my math wand on Google docs just doesn?t work, doggone it all.



There are a couple of problems in converting to EPUB using Google Docs as the formatting engine. First of all there are easier ways to create accessible documents and convert to EPUB format ? Caliber (free) is one among many applications which does a fine job than using Google Docs as the formatting engine. Google Docs is a shell program which makes you think you are working in Microsoft Word when in fact you are not. Which is why MathType doesn't work as efficiently or at all in this arena.



What really confuses me is why any of us are even considering using EPUB for math output, when there is such a simple, somewhat direct (simple does not equal easy or fast!) route to take: if you want it to look nice, leave it alone in the PDF file. If it needs to be in text-to-speech, run the PDF through an OCR conversion using Infnty OCR software for the math & either Abbyy Fine Reader or Omnipage for the text portions, save into a Microsoft or a tagged PDF file, and for a student who has a reading disability, use the free CAR reader from Central Washington University, which renders math nicely in text-to-speech. Or for the student who is blind or visually impaired, and needs to use a screen reader such as JAWS or NVDA, retype using MathType. Or, you can convert to LaTex or Nemeth and export to Braille. The CAR text-to-speech reader is not yet available in the iDevice world, but it does nicely in the android and the PC World, providing a good text-to-speech output while sim!
ultaneously highlighting the math. This is good learning support for students who have reading disabilities.



I am really struggling over why we think that every platform ought to cover every color, shade, and size of disability. Surely, we have learned enough by now to know that you pick the right tool for the job, not the other way around.



If you're looking at portability, then by all means make the math look nice on a small screen. But portability is only applicable as an accommodation under certain circumstances, for example, a student who cannot carry all of the books without succumbing to a tipping factor. Or someone who cannot physically turn the pages would benefit from an electronic book format.



I have enclosed (below) , a selection from a Google how-to site specifically regarding formatting math in Google Docs:




"There is no built-in equation capability in Google Docs Presentations, but you can still use MathType to create equations for your presentations.


1. In MathType, in the Size menu choose Define, and set the font size equal to what you're using in Google Docs. Default font size in Google Docs presentations is 32pt.

2. In MathType's Preferences menu choose Web and GIF Preferences. Leave everything at its default setting except in the center section, click to place a checkmark in the box next to Smooth edges (anti-aliasing).

3. Create your equation and save it to your computer as a GIF image. Use the Save command in the File menu for this, being careful to note where on your computer you saved it (Desktop is convenient). To save as GIF, when the Save As dialog is open, check the Save as type section to make sure it says Graphics Interchange Format.

4. In Google Docs, click the Insert Image icon on the toolbar (or use the menu command), then click Browse to find the image on your computer. When you find it, click Open, then back in the Insert Image dialog, click OK.

5. Move the image into position. The size of the equation should be about right, but if you do need to resize it, drag one of the corners while holding down the Shift key, and it will retain the proper proportion of the equation."

Here's the link: https://sites.google.com/a/d219.org/pdc/productivity/mathtype

Note: this method is designed for presentations not necessarily EPUB export, but it will not render accessible math in any format. It may render math that will fit on an EPUB page, but that only means it's portable, not accessible.

I encourage all of you to please go back to the drawing board and run down 1. Who is your student?; 2. What is the student's disability?; 3. What is the student's preferred electronic text? (PDF, text-to-speech, tagged PDF, LaTex, Nemeth code?; 4. How will they access the text? What equipment or technology do they have? Once you've answered these questions, the route your format takes will become evident. Each one is different, and sadly there is no easy, quick solution for any of this.

As always, I am open to input and flogging from the listserv (enlightenment) if my information is not correct. I would love to be updated if there is in fact a route to math accessibility in Google Docs to EPUB.

Respectfully,

Wink

Wink Harner

Adaptive Technology Consulting & Training

Alternative Text & Media Production

The Foreigntype



foreigntype at gmail.com

winkharner1113 at gmail.com



(Disclaimer: this email was dictated with Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please forgive any quirks, mis-recognitions, or omissions.)













From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Lisa Brandt
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 1:00 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network; Samantha Johns
Subject: Re: [Athen] Epub Format in Google Docs



Darn, the math issues are indeed disappointing. I hope they'll make that a priority.





On Tue, 08 Mar 2016 12:49:22 -0800, Samantha Johns <samanj at pdx.edu> wrote:



Hello,



Thank you Lisa for pointing that this could bring more attention to this format. And thank you Emma, yes I agree this may not support math equations.



I did test that if you format the Doc in Google with Heading, and Alt text for image, then export to Epub it does retain formatting and read the Alt Text. So that's a plus!




<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> Samantha Johns

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> Portland State University

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> 1825 SW Broadway

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk> wrote:

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>
Hello,

Just a quick note since I was curious and had a look: I don't have full test software here at home but from what I could see from unzipping the EPub and looking at the source code the equations are stored as images (png) and are included in the EPub without alternative text. This means that the images won't scale well (may also align badly and will reflow badly) and there is nothing to be read aloud.

This is about as far away from good practice as they can get (MathML with SVG and MathSpeak fallback in EPub3 http://www.idpf.org/accessibility/guidelines/content/mathml/desc.php). I didn't try anything beyond that... I would be wondering about other more complex structural elements though.

Best wishes,
Emma Cliffe

Mathematics Resource Centre Development Officer
University of Bath

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> On 08/03/16 17:04, Samantha Johns wrote:

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> Hello Athen Community,

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> As of recently it looks like Google Docs now has the option to export to Epub format. I am wondering what people think about the benefits of this and recommendations?

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> Have a great day!

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>


<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>


Samantha Johns

Accessibility & Course Support Specialist

Portland State University

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> 1825 SW Broadway

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> Smith Memorial Student Union, Mezzanine 209
Portland OR 97201
(503) 725-2754

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> --
<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>
<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu
http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> --

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> --
Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> --
<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>
<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu
http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/>



<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> --

<http://www.pdx.edu/oai/> Lisa Brandt, PCC Disability Services
Accessibility Technician
Alternate Media Formats Technician
SE SCOMM 112 | SY CC 260

Assistive Technology Support and Appointments:
access-tech-group at pcc.edu
971-722-TECH (971-722-8324)

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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 18:34:43 +0000
From: Mary J Ziegler <maryz at mit.edu>
To: Access Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Athen] Job Posting Announcement: MIT Associate Dean,
Accessibility and Usability
Message-ID: <D305D6E9.165E0%maryz at mit.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Dear Colleagues:

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology has posted the following
position. Please feel free to share farther.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)
Associate Dean, Accessibility and Usability

The Office of Undergraduate Advising and Academic Programming seeks an
associate dean who will be responsible for leading and managing a wide
span of accessibility, assistive technology, and usability projects and
services across the MIT community. This role will focus on planning and
implementing effective strategies and services to promote the
accessibility and usability of IT products and services both for MIT
students and staff. Will also serve as a liaison with Student Disability
Services, IS&T, Office of General Counsel, Human Resources, and Office of
Digital Learning with regard to IT accessibility requests and coordinating
related MIT ADA compliance.


Characteristic Duties:
* Manage the Accessibility and Usability team
* Coordinate IT-related accommodations for individuals with Student
Disability Services or HR Disability Services by making decisions
regarding what hardware, software, accessibility reviews, redevelopment,
or remediation of IT is required
* Lead and manage accessible course materials acquisition and delivery
services for MIT students.
* Lead accessibility consulting, design and code checks, reviews, and tool
evaluations
* Oversee and participate in data gathering projects to assess user
characteristics, requirements, needs, goals, and opportunities related the
products and services
* Research new trends in policy, mandates, processes, testing tools, and
trends to incorporate accessibility and usability into existing and
developing Institute processes
* Provide education and outreach on accessibility and usability best
practices to the MIT community

Requirements:
* Master?s degree in computer science or information systems
* Five years of relevant accessibility and usability work experience
* Experience leading and managing teams
* Thorough knowledge of the federal disability mandates and other relevant
laws and guidance (Section 504, ADA Title III, TEACH Act) applicable to
technology accessibility and tools provided in higher education
* Knowledge and understanding of the W3C WAI WCAG 2.0 Standards and
industry usability standards and methodologies
* Deep working knowledge of the scope of available assistive technologies
and how they interact with web, desktop, and mobile products and services
* Ability to readily adapt to changing demands and needs of the MIT
community and to effectively handle and prioritize competing demands
* Excellent time management and organizational skills

Interested candidates may apply online at http://jobs.mit.edu/. Please
reference job number 13181 and indicate where you saw this posting. MIT
is an equal employment opportunity employer. All qualified applicants will
receive consideration for employment and will not be discriminated against
on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender
identity, national origin, veteran status, or disability.


?
Mary J. Ziegler
Program Manager for Online Accessibility
MIT Office of Digital Learning
maryz at mit.edu
617-258-9328



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