[Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

[Justin Romack]

I do wonder if there’s a need or plans to indicate when an image is an artifact – versus trying to “rig” a solution through spaces or other characters. We seem to have flexibility when authoring in any other content platform in this regard – but not with the MS products.

Thanks!

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Justin Romack | Assistive Technology Coordinator
Disability Services | Texas A&M University
1224 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-1224
ph: 979.845.1637 | justinr at disability.tamu.edu | disability.tamu.edu
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DIVISION OF STUDENT AFFAIRS | One Division. One Mission.

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Pratik Patel
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:01 PM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

It’s my understanding that Microsoft is going to align this dialog box with industry based common practices. We don’t have details yet. But I would imagine that it will mean that we’d get Alt along with potential longdesc. This is my personal opinion: I’d say title is not relevant in most cases.

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Beach
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:54 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

And, …

1)            Does Microsoft have plans to change either of these two attributes?

2)            Do any of the AT developers have plans to address these two attributes?

3)            Do these two tags line up with other attributes in development in the areas of web design, app design, accessible book publishing, etc.?

We could really get lost in all of the possibilities with just this discussion.  Is it any wonder people feel overwhelmed with digital accessibility?


Robert Lee Beach
Assistive Technology Specialist
Kansas City Kansas Community College
7250 State Avenue
Kansas City, KS  66112
Phone: 913-288-7671
Email: rbeach at kckcc.edu<mailto:rbeach at kckcc.edu>

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Karlen Communications
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:47 AM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

Hmm, looks like there is a priority with JAWS in that it looks to see if the Title attribute is filled in and if it s, it reads it and stops. This makes the information in the Alt Text attribute “inaccessible.”

But again, we have to think of other adaptive technologies which may not prioritize which gets read or may “look for” the Alt Text.

It creates interesting questions: where do we put the most important information for an image or do we duplicate it? ..and can we put as much information in the Title attribute as we can in the Alt Text attribute area?

Interesting discussion!

Cheers, Karen

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Robert Beach
Sent: February 22, 2017 11:33 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

Interesting that you say this.  I ran a test yesterday when this topic came up.  I added an image and added both a title and alt text to it.  With JAWS 17, only the title was read, not the alt text.  When I added an image with just alt text and no title, then the alt test was read.

Hmmm, “It gets curiousier and curiousier.”


Robert Lee Beach
Assistive Technology Specialist
Kansas City Kansas Community College
7250 State Avenue
Kansas City, KS  66112
Phone: 913-288-7671
Email: rbeach at kckcc.edu<mailto:rbeach at kckcc.edu>

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Karlen Communications
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 10:25 AM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

JAWS 18 IS reading the Alt text of images in PowerPoint…so far.

I typically don’t use the Title attribute in Office documents. I don’t know of an adaptive technology that supports it and if I don’t add the Title, the accessibility Checker doesn’t catch it.

If we want the Title attribute supported then we need to advocate for the support but I think Alt Text is enough for images in Office documents. If we get support for the Title attribute, then we have to identify what type of text to put in it and how will that be different from or enhance Alt text. We also have to decide when or if to add the Title attribute. If we don’t “need” it will it get flagged by the Accessibility Checker? If adaptive technology consistently does read the Alt Text attribute (with the exception of bugs that appear in a specific build or version), then do we really need the Title attribute?

BTW, if you try to put null Alt Text in an Office document, you end up with us hearing “graphic, quote, quote” or “Graphic quote, space, quote” and when you convert the document to tagged PDF, the image is not converted to an Artifact, we still hear that Alt Text of “graphic, quote, quote.” The word graphic is added by the adaptive technology to let us know that we are on an image.

Some techniques don’t transfer to other formats. Office-type documents have no concept of Artifacts or null Alt Text.  Sort of like trying to make your house a boat by giving it an anchor and a chain. ☺

Cheers, Karen

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Kressin, Lori L. (llk2t)
Sent: February 22, 2017 10:37 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

Hi Karen,

Would this be true of PowerPoint as well?

What does the “Title” field do?

Thanks so much for all of your guidance!

Lori

On 2/22/17, 10:34 AM, "athen-list on behalf of Karlen Communications" <athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu> on behalf of info at karlencommunications.com<mailto:info at karlencommunications.com>> wrote:

Yes, this is what I continue to train on and advise. We

Cheers, Karen

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Preast, Vanessa
Sent: February 22, 2017 10:06 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

So, it would be acceptable and accurate to continue to make the following recommendation regarding adding alt text when building Word documents?

1.       Select image
2.       Right click image and select “Format picture…” (Alt + JP, O)
3.       Select “Layout & Properties”
4.       Go to “Alt text”
5.       Leave Title field blank
6.       In the Description field, add a concise description of the image

Thanks,
Vanessa

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Karlen Communications
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 7:22 AM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

We have to continue to add the Alt Text for images. JAWS is not the only adaptive technology being used by people. There are other screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools that can access the Alt text. We have to focus on the best practices/standards, and not a specific adaptive technology where a tool/feature might be broken from one version to another. Also, as indicated by someone, the reading of Alt text is working for them using the same version of JAWS, so this may be a device problem or something else that is going on.

Bottom line is that we make documents as accessible as they can be using the tools in the document format/application and when something breaks from one version to another, we let the adaptive technology developers know and lobby for getting it fixed.

In this case, even though JAWS is not reading the Alt Text for the images in a Word document, if I press Ctrl + Shift + letter O, I get a list of objects and the images are listed by their Alt Text. It is just when I go through the document in a logical manner that the problem surfaces.

Cheers, Karen

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Preast, Vanessa
Sent: February 22, 2017 8:05 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

If this is the case…. How does this change our recommendations/instructions for alt text in Word?

I’m about to distribute some instructions to our institution on how to add Alt text to Word document images. I want to make sure my instructions are accurate and functional.

Should I tell them to add the description in 1) The title, 2) the description box, or 3) both?  Until this point, it sounded like #2 is what most accessibility experts are recommending.

Best,
Vanessa

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Karlen Communications
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 1:35 PM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

Yes, in my case JAWS 18 either says nothing or says “question” when it comes across an image with Alt Text…so not in your imagination…it isn’t consistently reading the Alt text.

Cheers, Karen

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Joseph Sherman
Sent: February 21, 2017 1:02 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: [Athen] Word 2016 and JAWS/NVDA Image ALT text

In Word 2016, using JAWS 18 standard settings, JAWS will not read the ALT text that is in the Description box. If there is text in the description box it simply reads “Blank”. It will read text in the Title box if it exists.

NVDA on the other hand, will read text in the Description box, and only read Title box if no Description exists.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a JAWS bug?

Joseph

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