[Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

[Wershing, Alice D.]

This has been an interesting thread.  I have encountered where there has only been one type of document type available depending on the book when I request through Access Text, so I understand that issue.  I am at a community college, so my student numbers and needs are different than that of a 4 year school. I do have some using additional software or apps as they choose and we are a bring your own device school as well.  When I meet with students who are receiving alt format, I provide them with an overview of the types of options they can use to read the text.

I’d be interested in hearing from others about this issue, as well as what the reading group that has been testing reading systems for accessibility from DIAGRAM center may offer as well.  DIAGRAM is working closely with publishers- so there may be some folks on this list that can weigh in.

Looking forward to learning more from this discussion.


Alice D. Wershing, M.Ed., A.T.P.<http://www.resna.org/atp-general-info>, C.P.A.A.C.<http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/cpacccertification>
Disability Services, Technology Specialist Pellissippi State Community College
865-694-6751
865-539-7699 (fax)

East TN Region Accessibility Specialist<http://www.tnecampus.info/specialists>
Tenessee Board of Regents-TN eCampus

PSCC Access for All Blog<http://blogs.pstcc.edu/access4all/>
PSCC Accessible Format Facebook Page<https://m.facebook.com/psccdisabilityservices> (PSCC-Disability Services)
PSCC Access4All Twitter Feed<https://twitter.com/Access4allPSCC> (@Access4allPSCC)







From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 5:28 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

Alice, here’s the thing…

Are every single one of our students using Kurzweil?

No?  Didn’t think so.

This is a case of the publisher deciding what our students need.  I have some students using Kurzweil.  I have some using Adobe Reader and their built-in text-to-speech on a Mac.  I have some using their purchased version of Natural Reader.  I have some students who are blind and using screen readers with Word files, or enlarging text from the PDF.

Our output is determined by what students need.  And Kurzweil is just one small aspect of that.  So ePubs can be read in Kurzweil.  Great!  That works for the 30 or so students that use Kurzweil on my campus.  What about the other 75 that use something else?

I want publishers to stop responding to our requests for a PDF with “the student can read it using VitalSource” or “here’s the ePub” or “here’s a code so the student can read it on our proprietary portal.”  NONE of this is their business, nor their decision to make.  That is for the student and the provider to determine.  Publishers need to stay completely out of it, and stop locking down the format they DO provide so that we can’t get into it, ala Adobe Digital Editions-locked down ePubs.

Susan Kelmer
Alternate Format Production Program Manager
Disability Services
University of Colorado Boulder
303-735-4836



From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Wershing, Alice D.
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 3:19 PM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

I have been able to open epub books in Kurzweil 3000.  I download all of our files to a secure drive, then just use the File and Open command to open the epub into Kurzweil.

The issue is one that someone else posted about page numbers matching.  Also, if you have students using Kurzweil to highlight and extract notes, having the book all in one file poses issues.  If the student highlights and extracts notes later in the book, it extracts all the notes from all of the previous chapters again.  For some students, this makes it difficult.  Using the page range option in Kurzweil, I can pull out chapters fairly quickly and send them to the student’s cloud.   Then they can highlight and extract one chapter at a time.

I have Kurzweil 16 on order, so there may be some new features in the newer version that will also assist.
Alice


Alice D. Wershing, M.Ed., A.T.P.<http://www.resna.org/atp-general-info>, C.P.A.A.C.<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1tVLAH_EHl1tQhVFhMDyHhogTYHodkp-buh0p2Ql8Kd5hcl9JZrsgAHRkLF_2DB8LSWykaGpfLV6ZRsU1eoaUBMUxd7KFlubBFW2gLkhgmlh_PzQA7SOi3rVgdraN8Iz4MOKFcP0tZa9Bgj6UX6-QXrQZxLPufQEe3QbU-vEGX7mESgeYJefMllaz0BXKra13W2RVNFmNqXTa4VSp88WMh__20c8j2zCfvF_JVRG-EYUBs3yd008uffuuzjDukdUm42ZN3ACQQc-1nLwQiFW_7pDYQVsw9JXF1k3jcFBLTKEpBnYrjz5A2eKrTTDofcH2yb8b35JQkPFIuawyMJVxc7DoA35r59kPXzm_ahWFh0efSH3JHmhuTOIHQBWra3ICYoA663D-W8Y2O775TVq4Fb6kbDgs42Q-iihgKfqxE7FZp3sK4iGdDC2SK3CaV5-cE1wC8zu_SpDNd_ZNy3qZ1g/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.accessibilityassociation.org%2Fcpacccertification>
Disability Services, Technology Specialist Pellissippi State Community College
865-694-6751
865-539-7699 (fax)

East TN Region Accessibility Specialist<http://secure-web.cisco.com/19ggGEHvcG5iRYOuK8-R1EPjfurMcEL_1ZzteQIhUbINHyIboN18bunw6a-VTtTwTl7W4feX1aDcabshm_RRx_QgsaXb47CKYQ1VX55M3SSYoiaoUqfwWxUd3VzxQkOrxtFsywRmsIVIOwlyggqSdtjgP5DIptzk-yU4ZCOfn6gduk0tBREXTkJR2nFFVL92CNYNOozdh--xKuOllV4G6QJhBZ7pqFw4cwg00RDeqB5hT4QIr2a7Ruiq0rWmFqSVTr-PSCOSUjTR-eonbfzdn3Xxz-9FAsGCmVoNV8wVtAhdC2-IjMoDRNsfptoxuresXVn5NE51ByWMiy5CG3XBY9ZhNXkh-byHaZ57YMNwcoNBrSnJB7TKLUbUDNazbOh_o44UYlMADWL4LTDilrRnzEf8yTm7k8UKsorhxsx-LhM5jYt3qfMovBFNzQLm6eV5n12E_y1J9MGKtrKKIJam9_A/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnecampus.info%2Fspecialists>
Tenessee Board of Regents-TN eCampus

PSCC Access for All Blog<http://blogs.pstcc.edu/access4all/>
PSCC Accessible Format Facebook Page<https://m.facebook.com/psccdisabilityservices> (PSCC-Disability Services)
PSCC Access4All Twitter Feed<https://twitter.com/Access4allPSCC> (@Access4allPSCC)





From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Kluesner, Bryon
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 4:46 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

I just made a request from Macmillan, received an ePub file. My computer couldn’t find a suitable software to open the file. Sent a message to the publisher via Access Text asking for a PDF. I don’t feel that I, nor my student, should have to download additional software when what he uses (Kurzweil) works just fine for his needs!

Here we go again, another Cengage type issue trying to force their (publisher) preferred format at me. I would rather scan the book than be forced to use it as ePub!

Just my 2 cents.

Bryon

Bryon Kluesner, RhD
Adaptive Technology Coordinator
Disability Resource Center
Adjunct Professor
College of Health, Education & Professional Studies


The University of Tennessee at Chattanooga
103 Frist Hall
615 McCallie Avenue, Dept. 2953
Chattanooga, TN 37403

(423) 425-4006 | utc.edu/drc<http://www.utc.edu/dean-students>



A member of the Division of Student Development<http://www.utc.edu/student-development>



From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 10:44 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

With all due respect, Rachel…you are speaking from the perspective of a publisher.  You don’t know our students.  You don’t know our needs, or theirs.  You don’t know how frustrating it is for us in the business of creating accessible content to have to jump through a thousand hoops just to be able to give a student what they need to get through their reading.  You are making non-information-based assumptions about our students and how they need to access materials.  Let me lay it out for you:


1.       You just said that we need to have a special reader to read ePubs.  Whether that is YET ANOTHER APP or program, or another plugin, you are asking our students to do YET ONE MORE THING to have access to the materials their other classmates have access to readily and easily and without plugins, programs, or other hoops to jump through.

2.       You assume every student is using Kurzweil or Read and Write Gold.  What?  WHAT?? Do you even do research on what people are using to read with before you make these assumptions?

3.       Vitalsource?  Give me a break.  The quality of files on there leave a LOT to be desired.

4.       Vital Source, ADE, Kobo, Amazon Kindle, etc. are all forcing people to be locked into a particular platform and a particular method of access. Additionally, not a single one of these platforms contain ALL of the materials a student may need to access throughout their career.  So, they need to have an app or program or login to a platform for each and every thing, and each one may be different.  i.e., if it is this kind of file, you open this program.  If it is this other kind of file, you open this OTHER program.  And here, here’s ANOTHER file that you need this other app to be able to use. And this one needs a login to an online source, so make sure you have the Internet before you try to read it!

5.       How do ANY of these platforms give us access for students who are blind?  Is there Braille in there?  Nice clean text/Word files they can access with a screen reader?  Perfectly tagged HTML that will never barf and always has images alt-tagged and all data behind graphics outlined clearly? I’m just betting not.  You assume it’s just “no big thing” to have a blind student need to download another thing, to access this thing, that a screen reader may or may not be able to navigate.  Again, making assumptions about what our students need or want.

Please understand, Rachel, that we are in the business of legally-mandated provision of alternate format for our students.  We’re not arguing for the provision of perfectly tagged PDFs from publishers to serve all students.  We, as providers, are asking that you continue to provide us with the PDFs we can use to create the format THAT THE STUDENT NEEDS.  We are, at our very base, doing what we do for STUDENTS.  Publishers are doing what they need to do for PROFITS.  We are coming from two different places, but we just wish publishers would stop pushing formats on us that our students do not need or want, or have trouble accessing.

Please, just give us PDFs when we ask for them.  Is that really so hard?  Keep producing all the locked in, need-yet-another-app-to read stuff you want and putting it out there, but when we, the providers for students with disabilities, ask for a file we can work with to create accessible format for a student, can you just give us that thing?



From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Rachel Comerford
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 7:07 PM
To: athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

Hi Susan!
Adobe Digital Editions (ADE) is one of the many readers that will open epubs. It isn't a proprietary format (although they may have a format that they push as well). ADE is the platform (like ibooks, kindle, vitalsource, redshelf, and others) and EPUB is the format of the content (basically all of the text, design files, navigation files, etc). Students who use Kurzweil or Read and Write Gold can also open epubs in those platforms although those companies are in the process of doing some updating to allow for more ease of use of epub.

My favorite epub reader for textbooks is vitalsource. It's free to download the reader and the company has worked really closely with Benetech and DAISY to build an accessible ebook reader. There are a lot of good ones out there though.

I wholeheartedly believe that PDFs were a good solution for students using AT but EPUBs are a better one. The accessibility metadata that can be built into them, the clear navigation without remediation, and the ability to resize and reflow text (no more horizontal scrolling!!) are just a few reasons.

Just my 2 cents in case it helps. I know there will be some talk about this at AHEAD and AHG this year - maybe we'll get a chance to meet there!

If the file is DRM'd - have you tried reaching out through BookShare or AccessText Network for a file that isn't? I know we provide DRM-free files via those libraries... I'm sure other publishers do to.

Rachel

Rachel Comerford | Senior Director of Content Standards and Accessibility | T 212.576.9433

Macmillan Learning


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 17:44:33 +0000
From: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
        <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to
        read?
Message-ID:
        <DM5PR03MB3321CC468FEC9FDAE6F3E22AFB440 at DM5PR03MB3321.namprd03.prod.outlook.com<mailto:DM5PR03MB3321CC468FEC9FDAE6F3E22AFB440 at DM5PR03MB3321.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Removing DRM to produce an accessible file for a student with a disability is legally allowed.  Converting any type of file to another type of file for accessibility purposes is legally allowed.

We are not "illegals!"

Susan Kelmer
Alternate Format Production Program Manager
Disability Services
University of Colorado Boulder
303-735-4836



From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of chagnon at pubcom.com<mailto:chagnon at pubcom.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 11:40 AM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

FYI, DRM (digital rights management) was developed to protect the copyright and control the distribution of the content.
Be careful what you post on a public list! <grin>

- - -
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO  |  Bevi at PubCom.com<mailto:Bevi at PubCom.com<mailto:Bevi at PubCom.com>>
- - -
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting * training * development * design * sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses><http://www.PubCom.com/classes<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses>>
- - -


From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu><mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>>> On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 12:20 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu><mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

Thanks, Bevi.  I will likely be experimenting with some cracking, to see if I can get it out of DRM.

I've had success in the past doing this.  This will be no different.

-Susan

From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu><mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>>> On Behalf Of chagnon at pubcom.com<mailto:chagnon at pubcom.com><mailto:chagnon at pubcom.com<mailto:chagnon at pubcom.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 10:01 AM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu><mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

Adobe Digital Editions is a proprietary eBook format (not EPUB) that does indeed require software or plug-ins in order to access the file.

Since its proprietary rather than open source, we generally stay away from it. Plus, Adobe charges a small fortune to developers to create and publish titles in Adobe Digital Editions.

And it's not EPUB, the universal open source ebook reader file format that pretty much anyone can open on any device.

Adobe's website does say it is now accessible. See https://www.adobe.com/solutions/ebook/digital-editions.html

- - -
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO  |  Bevi at PubCom.com<mailto:Bevi at PubCom.com<mailto:Bevi at PubCom.com>>
- - -
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting * training * development * design * sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses><http://secure-web.cisco.com/1fPUvjX9jiMIJMlgPZfalTDuqonDjkDCjL_1-xyRROP-epedYN3ZF8eWpxwLvkq-mbtdMmZVNI1QW0X3m3NyxiB_r1vyLsMypmPJ6hITcaZsPvEUw2ygWovsqJUfGgTrY8hqL9JHdHQ4u7YYztxqR46IcpBd-_6C_COQlPuls5MAaoDzY4M-FAiqP-McYNcCUuq2X60RnXytBPU9P64kaOhpWodRLmuU4irYx1cXiH4GoAZ5nyEsia220xQFXXYpAsyM2cwYDjVwSjWzERGL3v2gMA0YWy9OrIDxgihRUaTKZ1Y76bU_R5Km9UoVGpqSOL9mrx34SR9ue8Em5xiS2AalJtmmVdFAT52LaKQfHqzlSLuz3m7pqLrf9t2o9d1Qm7r3dUdjWvnFX_pzigCLVXa0dUYcoXsCPcnzA6_vssGKgHJpThqfczezxTK3Rjby6l5t_BpYfWC-TuVZV261d9A/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.PubCom.com%2Fclasses>
- - -


From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu><mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>>> On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 10:51 AM
To: ALTMEDIA at LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET<mailto:ALTMEDIA at LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET><mailto:ALTMEDIA at LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET<mailto:ALTMEDIA at LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET>>; Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu><mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>>; athes at lists.colorado.edu<mailto:athes at lists.colorado.edu><mailto:athes at lists.colorado.edu<mailto:athes at lists.colorado.edu>>
Subject: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

Sorry for the cross-posting...some of you may see this more than once.

A colleague brought this to my attention.  My understanding was that Jaws could read EPUBs already, but one she just received from a publisher requires the download/installation/use of Adobe Digital Editions in addition to Jaws to read.

Is this new, or have I missed something?  Since publishers are now foisting ePubs onto us, I need to know if we are going to run into these types of problems.  "It will work, but, you need this thing and this thing and this other thing too..."

My biggest gripe is needing to give students yet another way they have to read their materials, when what they had in the first place was working just fine before publishers decided to take it upon themselves to tell us what our students need and want.

Susan Kelmer
Alternate Format Production Program Manager
Disability Services
University of Colorado Boulder
303-735-4836

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