[Athen] Editing Books

[Bourne, Sarah (MASSIT)]

Susan,


I would love to have a copy, too, please!


sb

Sarah E. Bourne
Director of IT Accessibility
1 Ashburton Place, 8th Floor, Boston, MA 02108
Office: (617) 626-4502
sarah.bourne at mass.gov  |  www.mass.gov/eotss<http://www.mass.gov/anf/research-and-tech/oversight-agencies/itd/>
Executive Office of Technology Services and Security (EOTSS)
EOTSS provides secure and quality digital information, services, and tools
to constituents and service providers when and where they need them.


________________________________
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Jiron, Randi <RJiron at roguecc.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 12:58 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books


Yes, if it is possible to send one to us as well, that would be an awesome resource for us to learn more.



Randi Jiron, MBA/TM

(Pronouns: She/Her)

Disability Services Specialist/E-Media Coordinator

Rogue Community College

Redwood Campus

541-956-7214



From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Heather Mariger
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:53 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books



Susan,



Can I jump on the bandwagon and get a copy as well? It would be an amazing resource.



Thanks,

H.



Heather Mariger

Digital Accessibility Advocate



Center for Academic Innovation

Chemeketa Community College

4000 Lancaster Drive NE - 9/126A

Salem, OR 97305



503.589.7832



*****************

Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance - Will Durant






On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:37 AM Corazon Napolis <coco.napolis at csueastbay.edu<mailto:coco.napolis at csueastbay.edu>> wrote:

Hi Susan, would you share your manual with me as well? Thank you!



coco.napolis at csueastbay.edu<mailto:coco.napolis at csueastbay.edu> or alternate.media at csueastbay.edu<mailto:alternate.media at csueastbay.edu>

--

Corazon (Coco) Napolis

Accessible Media & Administrative Analyst

ITS - Strategy & Planning

CSU East Bay - LI 2800

Production Assistants: alternate.media at csueastbay.edu<mailto:alternate.media at csueastbay.edu>



"To receive much, Is to give much."





On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:06 AM Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>> wrote:

Abbyy is for OCR, which you don’t have any need to do with publisher PDFS going to someone using TTS to access their files.



You NEED Acrobat Pro.  No alt format shop should be without it.



Susan Kelmer

Alternate Format Production Program Manager

Disability Services

University of Colorado Boulder

303-735-4836







From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:54 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books



Yes, people have been asking for it but since we own ABBYY I couldn't think of a good way to justify it, since ABBYY has been meeting our needs.  From what I am gathering, though, it does not hurt to have both programs anyway.  Also, I am hearing that I should use ABBYY for OCR.





On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 11:47 AM Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>> wrote:

Hi Robert.  I’ll send the manual via our transfer service.



Your number one job today should be to get your campus to pay for full Adobe Pro licenses for your lab computers.  This will cut your production time to minutes instead of hours, and no OCR will be required.



Susan Kelmer

Alternate Format Production Program Manager

Disability Services

University of Colorado Boulder

303-735-4836







From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 9:32 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books



Sure, that would be very helpful.  Here is what we're doing:

1) I receive the full book from the publisher

2) I provide it to the student workers.

3) They use Adobe Acrobat DC (the reader, not pro) and use Microsoft Print to PDF to create the chapters from the single PDF.  Not all PDFs have bookmarks, so for the ones that do not I don't know of another way to break these up.

4) They then right-click each chapter then use the ABBYY option in this menu to create a searchable PDF, since the print to PDF loses the OCR and creates inaccessible PDFs.



This has worked for us and no one has complained, but I see that it is not the best method and would be glad to review your manual.



Thanks everyone for your feedback!



Robert





On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 11:11 AM Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>> wrote:

I think I’m confused on how you are doing this?



Using Adobe Acrobat Professional, you should be EXTRACTING if you are breaking into chapters.  NOT printing.



I’m not sure why you’re even using Abbyy as part of this process, unless you are extracting to Word to do further editing, which you would need to do if the PDF was not accessible or text-based, or if you are creating Word files for a blind student using a screen reader. Or, if you are scanning to PDF, then you have a (likely) inaccessible PDF so you are creating a Word file that is accessible.



Maybe I’m missing something?  But it sounds like you are making a massive amount of work for yourself when this is really pretty simple.  We turn around book files from publishers to students in about 10 minutes, 20 if it’s big or needs cropped.  Usually the files we are getting from a publisher are ready to be used by students using Kurzweil or R&W.



Can I send you my alt format production manual?  It is a complete rundown of our processes for everything from PDFs to Braille output.



Susan Kelmer

Alternate Format Production Program Manager

Disability Services

University of Colorado Boulder

303-735-4836











From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2019 8:37 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books



This is what we are doing because it gives us the opportunity to enter a range of page numbers when breaking a book into chapters.  For books that have bookmarks, we do extract those sections.  Is it possible to use ABBYY and extract a range of pages from a PDF other than via printing?





On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 5:09 PM <chagnon at pubcom.com<mailto:chagnon at pubcom.com>> wrote:

Robert wrote:

/quote …  Most of the time we're just using Acrobat to split the book into chapters by printing each chapter to a separate PDF then running it through ABBYY for OCR.  /endquote



I can’t think of any situation that requires printing to a PDF rather than exporting to or saving as a PDF.



Print-to-PDF utilities are never the best way to make a PDF from any software because that method usually doesn’t contain either live text, a logical reading order, or tags or anything else needed for digital documents. It’s called “print” for a reason: it uses only the data needed for a printer, not a digital reading device.



If your software doesn’t give you the option to either save as or export to PDF, then you’re using the wrong software and need to find a more appropriate and functional program.



Rule #1 for accessibility: never ever ever EVER  E V E R print to PDF.



—Bevi Chagnon



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Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO  |  Bevi at PubCom.com<mailto:Bevi at PubCom.com>

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From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Keith Kolander
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 11:37 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books



There are advantages to both methods:

If the pdf has bookmarks to easily go to chapters or sections, that’s a good thing.  Plus, you can easily go to an exact page number corresponding to the book.  (Shift+Ctrl+N brings up a go to page number window also.)

But, size can be a consideration also.

Most of the time I split the pdf into chapters, and add the page numbers to the file name.



Keith Kolander

Adaptive Technology Specialist

St. Charles Community College

Cottleville, MO





From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Bourbeau, Maureen
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2019 9:52 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books



CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the college. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



WARNING: The sender of this email could not be validated and may not match the person in the "From" field.

Only when they ask!



From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2019 10:43 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books



Caution - External Email

________________________________

Thanks.  Also do you guys automatically break every book or just when students ask?  I am finding that many of my students prefer just having the one file to manage.





On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 10:35 AM Bourbeau, Maureen <Maureen.Bourbeau at unh.edu<mailto:Maureen.Bourbeau at unh.edu>> wrote:

Robert,

If you have Acrobat Pro, you can just use the “extract pages” function to break the single book file into chapter files.  We do that quite a bit now as more books are being provided as a single PDF with 800+ pages and sometimes the large file size causes trouble for some students to access on their laptops, etc.



Maureen Bourbeau

Assistive Technology Specialist

Student Accessibility Services (SAS)

201 Smith Hall, 3 Garrison Avenue

Durham, NH 03824

P: 603.862.2400  |  F: 603.862.4043

maureen.bourbeau at unh.edu<mailto:maureen.bourbeau at unh.edu>

www.unh.edu/studentaccessibility<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.unh.edu_studentaccessibility&d=DwMGaQ&c=lDF7oMaPKXpkYvev9V-fVahWL0QWnGCCAfCDz1Bns_w&r=rhLenV33VPpmkT7iP0-OkUlRYw9YWn3HMLHZVP2q9y8&m=uIaHmRQmWqCAd8AffGvKOBCVTj4qm7arszYM9v0YNyA&s=ugwJ7O2SVkEUIlfBZimihsMztwFUNREfJoboUz8nt_A&e=>





From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2019 9:56 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing Books



Caution - External Email

________________________________

Hello, the single full book file is text-based but usually when breaking it down into chapters, we do this by going to print -> Microsoft Print to PDF, the newly created chapter files need to have OCR applied.  This is not always the case - I broke out a chapter earlier via this method and OCR had already been applied.  I am blind myself and using a screen reader, so I am able to tell right away if it's readable or not.



Thanks for the advice; I will look into getting a quote for upgrading ABBYY in that case.



Robert





On Wed, Feb 6, 2019 at 9:38 AM Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu<mailto:Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>> wrote:

Are you saying that you are running OCR on scanned PDF files?  Because with most of the files coming from publishers these days, running OCR is not necessary, as they are already text-based (and usually pretty well tagged).



We are an Omnipage shop here, but even with Abbyy, if you are going this route, you need to keep up with the latest versions, which work better and faster than the old ones.



Susan Kelmer

Alternate Format Production Program Manager

Disability Services

University of Colorado Boulder

303-735-4836







From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2019 7:16 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: [Athen] Editing Books



Hello, currently our student workers are using Adobe Acrobat Reader for splitting books into chapters and ABBYY for making any necessary edits.  Most of the time we're just using Acrobat to split the book into chapters by printing each chapter to a separate PDF then running it through ABBYY for OCR.



We have an old version of ABBYY, version 11.  Would there be any benefits to upgrading to the latest version?  Obviously it's newer, but are there any compelling reasons?  Also, is there any reason to use ABBYY instead of Adobe Acrobat Pro, which some people in my office are asking for?



Thanks for your feedback.



Robert




--

Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
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Phone: 937-229-2066

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Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton  | 300 College Park  |  Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066

Fax: 937-229-3270

Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)

Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__go.udayton.edu_learning&d=DwMFaQ&c=c6MrceVCY5m5A_KAUkrdoA&r=O-_o_kUhT6ycJMVO6AvHe0jACC01EzuMNkO6emXHl4I&m=uHswhOzd-8DHlQA810ZCljOUCBqcJh-zAWbTIjrmM1w&s=jsPsA-i2gr4AdB1ldVZEBYu8n4edb41vMlbBGKtDT4o&e=>

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Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton  | 300 College Park  |  Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
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Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)

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Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton  | 300 College Park  |  Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066

Fax: 937-229-3270

Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)

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Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton  | 300 College Park  |  Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066

Fax: 937-229-3270

Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)

Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__go.udayton.edu_learning&d=DwMGaQ&c=lDF7oMaPKXpkYvev9V-fVahWL0QWnGCCAfCDz1Bns_w&r=rhLenV33VPpmkT7iP0-OkUlRYw9YWn3HMLHZVP2q9y8&m=uIaHmRQmWqCAd8AffGvKOBCVTj4qm7arszYM9v0YNyA&s=vALOakPASXdk-p18pGiDnXBLH0CZynoSkU8o5h9syvc&e=>

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--

Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton  | 300 College Park  |  Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066

Fax: 937-229-3270

Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)

Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__go.udayton.edu_learning&d=DwMGaQ&c=lDF7oMaPKXpkYvev9V-fVahWL0QWnGCCAfCDz1Bns_w&r=rhLenV33VPpmkT7iP0-OkUlRYw9YWn3HMLHZVP2q9y8&m=uIaHmRQmWqCAd8AffGvKOBCVTj4qm7arszYM9v0YNyA&s=vALOakPASXdk-p18pGiDnXBLH0CZynoSkU8o5h9syvc&e=>

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