From K4mccall at outlook.com Sat May 1 04:54:07 2021 From: K4mccall at outlook.com (Karen McCall) Date: Sat May 1 04:54:18 2021 Subject: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to add to frustration, I am working on updating my online course on the basics of tagged PDF and reworked the Word document on adding links. Not sure how long this has been going on, but even if you uncheck the check box in the Acrobat Preferences dialog NOT to add links, it does. And the links are only clickable, they are not accessible and don?t show up in the Tags Tree. They don?t even show up if you go to Edit PDF and use any of the links tools. I couldn?t find a way to delete them. I tried Print to PDF and the inaccessible links still showed up. I tried printing the document and scanning it into Acrobat and the links still showed up. I ended up having to use the Windows Fax and Scan software to scan a TIFF of the document, open it in ABBYY FineReader, recognize the text and then save it as a searchable PDF. I returned to acrobat, went into Edit PDF and it was ONLY THEN that I could select the phantom links and delete then so I could walk people through how to create accessible links. Not sure what is going on in PDF land but things seem to be getting worse not better. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list On Behalf Of Philip Kiff Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 10:26 PM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags I tried a couple things in the files you sent but I couldn't get the tag order to generate correctly either: not from the Adobe Acrobat Pro DC generator nor from the built-in Microsoft Word 365 generator. Just as an FYI, when I used the axesPDF for Word plugin, the order *did* come out correctly. And I would bet that it would also come out correctly using the CommonLook Office plugin (thought I don't have that one to test). The Microsoft built-in PDF generator has been getting better and better these past few years, but generally speaking, both the axesPDF and CommonLook products do a much better job producing an accessible, correctly formatted PDF directly from a well-formatted Word source. Phil. Philip Kiff D4K Communications On 2021-04-30 21:12, Steve Green wrote: Welcome to the weird world of accessible PDFs. I see the same issue as you, and I have no idea how to fix it in the Word document. It?s strange that Acrobat does a better job of tagging. In my experience, that?s rarely the case. But with accessible PDFs, there?s an exception to every rule. Steve From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joseph Polizzotto MA Sent: 01 May 2021 00:53 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags Hi Steve: Thanks for your response and for letting me know about the missing image. That image displayed the following screenshot of text in a DOCX file: Boyle's law (where (P is the pressure and V is the volume) Well, that's really interesting and good to know about general issues with the Adobe Acrobat Pro plug-in for MS Word. I will keep that in mind. FWIW, I have tried just using the Save As > PDF route in MS Word to circumvent the issue that I described but it does not resolve it. Using the Save As > PDF method, there is a difference in how the tags are created from the MS Word elements but the
tags for the inline images are still not in the correct place; with the Save As PDF method, in fact, they also come after the associated

tag but are not nested within the

tag, which is the case with the Adobe Acrobat Pro conversion method. In both cases, remediation would be time-consuming. What's interesting is that with both conversion methods, if I delete the root tag and then add tags to the document in Adobe Acrobat Pro, the

elements are in the right place related to the

tag, just that the alternative text is missing. It's as if the Adobe Acrobat Pro's "add tags" feature does a better job of tagging from within than when it first ingests the DOCX through the MS Word conversion suite. I am not sure why that is and would be even willing to delete all the tags, only to add them back, if it also meant that the alternative text would automagically reappear again. :-) Joseph On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:13 PM Steve Green > wrote: It?s strange that you should post this message now, because literally one minute ago I sent a lengthy email to all our staff explaining why they must not use Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word for creating PDFs. One of the reasons is that it does not seem to recognise the ?Mark as decorative? checkbox in Word?s Alt Text pane, and it adds bizarre Alternate Text such as P1070TB2#y1. Another issue relates to the use of simple text boxes in Word. Although we discourage their use, there are times that you want or need to use them. You can put images in the textbox, which can potentially cause a problem because you can add Alt Text to both the image and the textbox. If you do that, the Acrobat Accessibility Checker reports a failure due to nested Alternate Text, which is perfectly reasonable ? you can?t have Alt Text inside other Alt Text. The ?solution? is to mark the text box as decorative and only add Alt Text to the image. If you ?Save as PDF?, this does exactly what you would expect. The image is in the Tags panel with its Alternate Text. The text box is artifacted. You might expect the Adobe Acrobat Pro plug-in to do the same, or at least do something intelligent, but it doesn?t do either of those. It puts both the image and text box in the Tags panel. As discussed above, it adds random Alternate Text to the text box. It then deletes the Alt Text you added to the image, and to add insult to injury, the Acrobat Accessibility Checker fails because of the missing Alternate Text! I have also noticed the sort of issues you reported. For the time being, my recommendation is to use Word?s ?Save as PDF? feature instead. BTW, all the images were missing from your email. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joseph Polizzotto MA Sent: 30 April 2021 23:53 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags Hi Everyone: I encountered a problem when converting an MS Word document with inline images using Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word. The problem is that the inline images appear in the incorrect place within the PDF tags panel. Specifically, the

tags for the inline images are located after the entire

tag with which they are associated. Instead of the MS Word paragraph being broken up into separate chunks of content within the

PDF tag, the paragraph is contained as one block of text inside the

tag and the inline images are represented as

tags after that block. For example, in the following snippet of an MS Word document, where P and V are inline images in the sentence: alt=Boyle's law (where P is the pressure and V is the volume) I find the following structure in the PDF tags panel:

Boyle's law (where is the pressure and is the volume)

P
V If I remove the tags and add them back using Adobe Acrobat Pro, the
tags will be in the correct place, in between the correct blocks of text, but the alternative text for the images will be lost. This is the desired tag structure:

Boyle's law (where

P is the pressure and
V is the volume What have you done to address this issue? Is there a way to avoid having to remediate the PDF tags for this issue and get the correct tag order for inline images when using Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word? Note: I am using my MS Word's 365 (subscription) version with the continuous release version of Adobe Acrobat Pro (2021). I have attached the documents as well. Thanks for your help, Joseph -- Alternate Media Supervisor Disabled Students' Program University of California, Berkeley https://dsp.berkeley.edu/ (510) 642-0329 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu Mon May 3 07:32:09 2021 From: Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu (Susan Kelmer) Date: Mon May 3 07:32:16 2021 Subject: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wonder what Omnipage would have done with that PDF. I wonder if you?d mind sending to me, I?m curious! *Please note: I am currently working remotely, so can be reached by email.* Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image001.png@01D598AC.79FC1C60] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you?ve received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Karen McCall Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 5:54 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags Just to add to frustration, I am working on updating my online course on the basics of tagged PDF and reworked the Word document on adding links. Not sure how long this has been going on, but even if you uncheck the check box in the Acrobat Preferences dialog NOT to add links, it does. And the links are only clickable, they are not accessible and don?t show up in the Tags Tree. They don?t even show up if you go to Edit PDF and use any of the links tools. I couldn?t find a way to delete them. I tried Print to PDF and the inaccessible links still showed up. I tried printing the document and scanning it into Acrobat and the links still showed up. I ended up having to use the Windows Fax and Scan software to scan a TIFF of the document, open it in ABBYY FineReader, recognize the text and then save it as a searchable PDF. I returned to acrobat, went into Edit PDF and it was ONLY THEN that I could select the phantom links and delete then so I could walk people through how to create accessible links. Not sure what is going on in PDF land but things seem to be getting worse not better. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Philip Kiff Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 10:26 PM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags I tried a couple things in the files you sent but I couldn't get the tag order to generate correctly either: not from the Adobe Acrobat Pro DC generator nor from the built-in Microsoft Word 365 generator. Just as an FYI, when I used the axesPDF for Word plugin, the order *did* come out correctly. And I would bet that it would also come out correctly using the CommonLook Office plugin (thought I don't have that one to test). The Microsoft built-in PDF generator has been getting better and better these past few years, but generally speaking, both the axesPDF and CommonLook products do a much better job producing an accessible, correctly formatted PDF directly from a well-formatted Word source. Phil. Philip Kiff D4K Communications On 2021-04-30 21:12, Steve Green wrote: Welcome to the weird world of accessible PDFs. I see the same issue as you, and I have no idea how to fix it in the Word document. It?s strange that Acrobat does a better job of tagging. In my experience, that?s rarely the case. But with accessible PDFs, there?s an exception to every rule. Steve From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joseph Polizzotto MA Sent: 01 May 2021 00:53 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags Hi Steve: Thanks for your response and for letting me know about the missing image. That image displayed the following screenshot of text in a DOCX file: Boyle's law (where (P is the pressure and V is the volume) Well, that's really interesting and good to know about general issues with the Adobe Acrobat Pro plug-in for MS Word. I will keep that in mind. FWIW, I have tried just using the Save As > PDF route in MS Word to circumvent the issue that I described but it does not resolve it. Using the Save As > PDF method, there is a difference in how the tags are created from the MS Word elements but the
tags for the inline images are still not in the correct place; with the Save As PDF method, in fact, they also come after the associated

tag but are not nested within the

tag, which is the case with the Adobe Acrobat Pro conversion method. In both cases, remediation would be time-consuming. What's interesting is that with both conversion methods, if I delete the root tag and then add tags to the document in Adobe Acrobat Pro, the

elements are in the right place related to the

tag, just that the alternative text is missing. It's as if the Adobe Acrobat Pro's "add tags" feature does a better job of tagging from within than when it first ingests the DOCX through the MS Word conversion suite. I am not sure why that is and would be even willing to delete all the tags, only to add them back, if it also meant that the alternative text would automagically reappear again. :-) Joseph On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:13 PM Steve Green > wrote: It?s strange that you should post this message now, because literally one minute ago I sent a lengthy email to all our staff explaining why they must not use Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word for creating PDFs. One of the reasons is that it does not seem to recognise the ?Mark as decorative? checkbox in Word?s Alt Text pane, and it adds bizarre Alternate Text such as P1070TB2#y1. Another issue relates to the use of simple text boxes in Word. Although we discourage their use, there are times that you want or need to use them. You can put images in the textbox, which can potentially cause a problem because you can add Alt Text to both the image and the textbox. If you do that, the Acrobat Accessibility Checker reports a failure due to nested Alternate Text, which is perfectly reasonable ? you can?t have Alt Text inside other Alt Text. The ?solution? is to mark the text box as decorative and only add Alt Text to the image. If you ?Save as PDF?, this does exactly what you would expect. The image is in the Tags panel with its Alternate Text. The text box is artifacted. You might expect the Adobe Acrobat Pro plug-in to do the same, or at least do something intelligent, but it doesn?t do either of those. It puts both the image and text box in the Tags panel. As discussed above, it adds random Alternate Text to the text box. It then deletes the Alt Text you added to the image, and to add insult to injury, the Acrobat Accessibility Checker fails because of the missing Alternate Text! I have also noticed the sort of issues you reported. For the time being, my recommendation is to use Word?s ?Save as PDF? feature instead. BTW, all the images were missing from your email. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joseph Polizzotto MA Sent: 30 April 2021 23:53 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags Hi Everyone: I encountered a problem when converting an MS Word document with inline images using Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word. The problem is that the inline images appear in the incorrect place within the PDF tags panel. Specifically, the

tags for the inline images are located after the entire

tag with which they are associated. Instead of the MS Word paragraph being broken up into separate chunks of content within the

PDF tag, the paragraph is contained as one block of text inside the

tag and the inline images are represented as

tags after that block. For example, in the following snippet of an MS Word document, where P and V are inline images in the sentence: alt=Boyle's law (where P is the pressure and V is the volume) I find the following structure in the PDF tags panel:

Boyle's law (where is the pressure and is the volume)

P
V If I remove the tags and add them back using Adobe Acrobat Pro, the
tags will be in the correct place, in between the correct blocks of text, but the alternative text for the images will be lost. This is the desired tag structure:

Boyle's law (where

P is the pressure and
V is the volume What have you done to address this issue? Is there a way to avoid having to remediate the PDF tags for this issue and get the correct tag order for inline images when using Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word? Note: I am using my MS Word's 365 (subscription) version with the continuous release version of Adobe Acrobat Pro (2021). I have attached the documents as well. Thanks for your help, Joseph -- Alternate Media Supervisor Disabled Students' Program University of California, Berkeley https://dsp.berkeley.edu/ (510) 642-0329 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From K4mccall at outlook.com Mon May 3 07:52:20 2021 From: K4mccall at outlook.com (Karen McCall) Date: Mon May 3 07:52:27 2021 Subject: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll send you my sample file. In the meantime, I've found out that this is a "feature" of AI in Acrobat. If you don't want ANY links to be created, you go into Preferences > General and uncheck the check box for Create Links. However, this not only won't create the inaccessible links, but won't create any links from your documents. You have to remember to check the check box again once you've finished creating your PDF with no links. Even if you use the Preferences dialog in the Acrobat Ribbon, these inaccessible links will be created. So there is no communication between the Preferences dialog in the Acrobat Ribbon and the Preferences in Acrobat itself. The other thing worth noting is that if you have a Print to PDF where you've unchecked the check box to Create Links in Acrobat but then open the Print to PDF document, check the check box again...the fake/inaccessible links are added to the document again. Not only that, if you have http:// or www. As I've written them here, they will be identified as links even though they go nowhere...just like they did here. Sigh. Sometimes AI isn't. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 10:32 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags I wonder what Omnipage would have done with that PDF. I wonder if you'd mind sending to me, I'm curious! *Please note: I am currently working remotely, so can be reached by email.* Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image001.png@01D7400A.61BF3310] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Karen McCall Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 5:54 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags Just to add to frustration, I am working on updating my online course on the basics of tagged PDF and reworked the Word document on adding links. Not sure how long this has been going on, but even if you uncheck the check box in the Acrobat Preferences dialog NOT to add links, it does. And the links are only clickable, they are not accessible and don't show up in the Tags Tree. They don't even show up if you go to Edit PDF and use any of the links tools. I couldn't find a way to delete them. I tried Print to PDF and the inaccessible links still showed up. I tried printing the document and scanning it into Acrobat and the links still showed up. I ended up having to use the Windows Fax and Scan software to scan a TIFF of the document, open it in ABBYY FineReader, recognize the text and then save it as a searchable PDF. I returned to acrobat, went into Edit PDF and it was ONLY THEN that I could select the phantom links and delete then so I could walk people through how to create accessible links. Not sure what is going on in PDF land but things seem to be getting worse not better. Cheers, Karen From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Philip Kiff Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 10:26 PM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags I tried a couple things in the files you sent but I couldn't get the tag order to generate correctly either: not from the Adobe Acrobat Pro DC generator nor from the built-in Microsoft Word 365 generator. Just as an FYI, when I used the axesPDF for Word plugin, the order *did* come out correctly. And I would bet that it would also come out correctly using the CommonLook Office plugin (thought I don't have that one to test). The Microsoft built-in PDF generator has been getting better and better these past few years, but generally speaking, both the axesPDF and CommonLook products do a much better job producing an accessible, correctly formatted PDF directly from a well-formatted Word source. Phil. Philip Kiff D4K Communications On 2021-04-30 21:12, Steve Green wrote: Welcome to the weird world of accessible PDFs. I see the same issue as you, and I have no idea how to fix it in the Word document. It's strange that Acrobat does a better job of tagging. In my experience, that's rarely the case. But with accessible PDFs, there's an exception to every rule. Steve From: athen-list On Behalf Of Joseph Polizzotto MA Sent: 01 May 2021 00:53 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags Hi Steve: Thanks for your response and for letting me know about the missing image. That image displayed the following screenshot of text in a DOCX file: Boyle's law (where (P is the pressure and V is the volume) Well, that's really interesting and good to know about general issues with the Adobe Acrobat Pro plug-in for MS Word. I will keep that in mind. FWIW, I have tried just using the Save As > PDF route in MS Word to circumvent the issue that I described but it does not resolve it. Using the Save As > PDF method, there is a difference in how the tags are created from the MS Word elements but the
tags for the inline images are still not in the correct place; with the Save As PDF method, in fact, they also come after the associated

tag but are not nested within the

tag, which is the case with the Adobe Acrobat Pro conversion method. In both cases, remediation would be time-consuming. What's interesting is that with both conversion methods, if I delete the root tag and then add tags to the document in Adobe Acrobat Pro, the

elements are in the right place related to the

tag, just that the alternative text is missing. It's as if the Adobe Acrobat Pro's "add tags" feature does a better job of tagging from within than when it first ingests the DOCX through the MS Word conversion suite. I am not sure why that is and would be even willing to delete all the tags, only to add them back, if it also meant that the alternative text would automagically reappear again. :-) Joseph On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:13 PM Steve Green > wrote: It's strange that you should post this message now, because literally one minute ago I sent a lengthy email to all our staff explaining why they must not use Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word for creating PDFs. One of the reasons is that it does not seem to recognise the "Mark as decorative" checkbox in Word's Alt Text pane, and it adds bizarre Alternate Text such as P1070TB2#y1. Another issue relates to the use of simple text boxes in Word. Although we discourage their use, there are times that you want or need to use them. You can put images in the textbox, which can potentially cause a problem because you can add Alt Text to both the image and the textbox. If you do that, the Acrobat Accessibility Checker reports a failure due to nested Alternate Text, which is perfectly reasonable - you can't have Alt Text inside other Alt Text. The "solution" is to mark the text box as decorative and only add Alt Text to the image. If you "Save as PDF", this does exactly what you would expect. The image is in the Tags panel with its Alternate Text. The text box is artifacted. You might expect the Adobe Acrobat Pro plug-in to do the same, or at least do something intelligent, but it doesn't do either of those. It puts both the image and text box in the Tags panel. As discussed above, it adds random Alternate Text to the text box. It then deletes the Alt Text you added to the image, and to add insult to injury, the Acrobat Accessibility Checker fails because of the missing Alternate Text! I have also noticed the sort of issues you reported. For the time being, my recommendation is to use Word's "Save as PDF" feature instead. BTW, all the images were missing from your email. Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Joseph Polizzotto MA Sent: 30 April 2021 23:53 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags Hi Everyone: I encountered a problem when converting an MS Word document with inline images using Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word. The problem is that the inline images appear in the incorrect place within the PDF tags panel. Specifically, the

tags for the inline images are located after the entire

tag with which they are associated. Instead of the MS Word paragraph being broken up into separate chunks of content within the

PDF tag, the paragraph is contained as one block of text inside the

tag and the inline images are represented as

tags after that block. For example, in the following snippet of an MS Word document, where P and V are inline images in the sentence: alt=Boyle's law (where P is the pressure and V is the volume) I find the following structure in the PDF tags panel:

Boyle's law (where is the pressure and is the volume)

P
V If I remove the tags and add them back using Adobe Acrobat Pro, the
tags will be in the correct place, in between the correct blocks of text, but the alternative text for the images will be lost. This is the desired tag structure:

Boyle's law (where

P is the pressure and
V is the volume What have you done to address this issue? Is there a way to avoid having to remediate the PDF tags for this issue and get the correct tag order for inline images when using Adobe Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word? Note: I am using my MS Word's 365 (subscription) version with the continuous release version of Adobe Acrobat Pro (2021). I have attached the documents as well. Thanks for your help, Joseph -- Alternate Media Supervisor Disabled Students' Program University of California, Berkeley https://dsp.berkeley.edu/ (510) 642-0329 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From hunziker at arizona.edu Wed May 5 09:58:29 2021 From: hunziker at arizona.edu (Hunziker, Dawn A - (hunziker)) Date: Wed May 5 09:58:34 2021 Subject: [Athen] Call for Proposals - ATHEN Virtual Conference 2021! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, A reminder that we are looking for individuals who can talk about accessibility efforts for OER on their campuses. Please see below for more details. I also realized that I didn't include a deadline for proposals. Please submit your proposals by May 14th (Friday). Thank you! Dawn Dawn Hunziker Assistant Director, Digital and Physical Access | Disability Resources The University of Arizona | hunziker@arizona.edu drc.arizona.edu | itaccessibility.arizona.edu 520-626-9409 ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of ATHEN President Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:50 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [EXT][Athen] Call for Proposals - ATHEN Virtual Conference 2021! External Email Hi all, We are in the process of planning our annual ATHEN Virtual Conference! This year, we thought we'd call for proposals from those who are working around the accessibility of Open Education Resources (OER). * Session talks will be 15 minutes with 5 minutes Q&A and we expect to have 3-4 sessions. * Sessions can be as informal/formal as the presenter wants. * Sessions will be announced after May 20th. * The date of the event will be June 16 starting at 2 PM Eastern. To submit your proposal about OER Accessibility, fill out our short Google form. If you have any questions, please let us know! ATHEN Executive Council Dawn Hunziker President, ATHEN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hascherdss at gmail.com Thu May 6 07:09:59 2021 From: hascherdss at gmail.com (Heidi Scher) Date: Thu May 6 07:11:02 2021 Subject: [Athen] [External] O&M training In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you again to everyone who responded! We are fortunate to have access to a great O&M trainer. I was just needing to get an idea of how many view O&M training (even limited) as a "personal care" vs accommodation. I appreciate everyone's information and the resources shared! Stay well, Heidi +++++++++++++++ Heidi Scher, M.S., CRC Associate Director - AT *she, her, hers* Center for Educational Access at the University of Arkansas 1 University of Arkansas, ARKU 209 Fayetteville, AR 72701 479.575.3104 phone 479.575.7445 fax +++++++++++++++ On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 10:37 AM Stephen Marositz wrote: > Hello Heidi > > > > I worked on this as a grant funded project at my previous institution (a > community college) so I am interested in your thoughts. The idea was to > provide some number of ours of O&M instruction within the first 2 weeks or > so of the start of the semester with a focus on-campus and surrounding > streets and public transportation stops. > > > > 2 points in favor: > > - Equity, international/undocumented students, as well as those who do > not qualify for rehabilitation services because of ?an ability to benefit > in terms of an employment outcome in an integrated setting.? > - Risk management: Safe, confident travel means fewer injuries on > campus, particularly in an urban setting. > > I might also add that timing of the training is of the essence. Typically, > securing O&M services for students who do qualify, is somewhat lengthy. > Students do not know their course schedules with room assignments until > just before the start of the term in many cases. This doesn?t even account > for last-minute room assignment changes, or the student?s need to alter > their schedule. Offering O&M increases access for all students with visual > impairments. > > > > Points against > > - One thing that?s difficult is finding qualified O&M specialists to > work part-time and, as you said, within the student?s schedule. > - If O&M is considered a personal service then it is outside the > bounds of something the institution can provide. > > > > I hope this helps. > > Alex Marositz J.D. ATAC > > Information Security and Compliance Office > > Information Technology > > California State University, Dominguez Hills > > E: *smarositz@csudh.edu * > > https://www.csudh.edu/it/security-compliance/ > > > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *Amy Robasse > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 27, 2021 1:25 PM > *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network < > athen-list@u.washington.edu> > *Subject:* Re: [Athen] [External] O&M training > > > > I am from a small college, and while we do not have a formal policy, I > have done some O & M with our blind students. Because of our size I have > been able to develop relationships with our students and whenever a need > arises discuss with them what they would like trained on, when to do it, > how to do it, etc. The only thing that has been a bit of a struggle is > scheduling training during times where spaces are not heavily occupied so > the student can feel comfortable exploring as they wish. > > > > I am also not trained in O & M, so I rely on the students to tell me how > they want to go about it. Everything from where they want to start to what > information they want about the space came directly from them. > > > > Has anyone here used Beacons to convey information to their blind > students? I pushed for these this past year as a way to give directional > information and other Covid changes that were visual cues but wasn't able > to get it approved. I am considering trying again for fall.This article > > gives a decent overview of how beacons can be used, although it's a bit > outdated. Wayfindr > is > current and has lots of awesome information on the more technical aspects > of beacons. > > > > Warmly, > > Amy > > > > --- > > [image: Image removed by sender.] > > Amy Robasse, MA > > Coordinator of Disability Services > > Working Remotely - Schedule your virtual appointment > > > > > > > -----> Want to connect with other students with disabilities? Email me > for our Zoom chat info! > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 9:32 AM Heidi Scher wrote: > > Hello folks, > > > > Do any of your institutions covering orientation and mobility training for > students who are blind and don't have any rehab services? > > > > Thanks for any input you might have! > > > > Heidi > > > > > +++++++++++++++ > Heidi Scher, M.S., CRC > Associate Director - AT > > *she, her, hers* > > Center for Educational Access at the University of Arkansas > > 1 University of Arkansas, ARKU 209 > Fayetteville, AR 72701 > 479.575.3104 phone > 479.575.7445 fax > +++++++++++++++ > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ~WRD0000.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john.gardner at viewplus.com Fri May 7 13:46:47 2021 From: john.gardner at viewplus.com (John Gardner) Date: Fri May 7 13:47:12 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Message-ID: Hello all, I tried to find info on the Adobe site on how to get accessible output with InDesign. There is a paragraph saying that there is info on that topic, but it has no links, and I have just struck out. If anybody on the list can point me to info on using InDesign for accessible output, I would be most grateful. I continueo to marvel that the Adobe accessibility web site is itself not accessible. The site violates one of the most fundamental guidelines - of not using things like "click here"... This one has a zillion links, all of which say "read more" and it is not always clear what a given link refers to. Very helpful. John John Gardner President 541.754.4002 x 200 www.viewplus.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This message and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited; please notify the sender and delete the message. ViewPlus Technologies, Inc. accepts no liability for damage of any kind resulting from this email. From dhayman at olympic.edu Fri May 7 15:20:59 2021 From: dhayman at olympic.edu (Hayman, Douglass) Date: Fri May 7 15:21:32 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Message-ID: John, I see what you mean about their site, if you're talking about this page for example: https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/creating-accessible-pdfs.html It has an image that shows a summary of what needs to be done in InDesign as a list and then an arrow going over to PDF icon. The image has no ALT tag. I too have been exploring InDesign today for a couple of reasons. 1. To get some basic understanding of it just in case that is what our campus uses for the student newsletter which is currently made in Canva and exported as a horribly tagged PDF. 2. Level Access told me they used InDesign to create their well done brochure The State of Digital Accessibility then exported to PDF. Since I'm mid-way through the same journey as you I don't have a lot of info to share, yet. I did find the early part of this video useful on looking at some of the settings in InDesign that impact making an accessible PDF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiqw3rBWDWk Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 (currently working remotely and don't have access to this phone) -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 1:47 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello all, I tried to find info on the Adobe site on how to get accessible output with InDesign. There is a paragraph saying that there is info on that topic, but it has no links, and I have just struck out. If anybody on the list can point me to info on using InDesign for accessible output, I would be most grateful. I continueo to marvel that the Adobe accessibility web site is itself not accessible. The site violates one of the most fundamental guidelines - of not using things like "click here"... This one has a zillion links, all of which say "read more" and it is not always clear what a given link refers to. Very helpful. John John Gardner President 541.754.4002 x 200 www.viewplus.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This message and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited; please notify the sender and delete the message. ViewPlus Technologies, Inc. accepts no liability for damage of any kind resulting from this email. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list From steve.green at testpartners.co.uk Sat May 8 06:39:35 2021 From: steve.green at testpartners.co.uk (Steve Green) Date: Sat May 8 06:40:08 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The process that Adobe describe on that page is very good as far as it goes, but there are a lot of things it doesn't cover. One of the joys of accessible PDFs is that even after 15 years of creating, testing and remediating them, we still learn new things on every project. You can teach yourself from all the disparate sources of information, but I recommend getting professional training from Ted Page - see https://accessible-digital-documents.com/training/accessible-pdfs-from-indesign/ Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of Hayman, Douglass Sent: 07 May 2021 23:21 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? John, I see what you mean about their site, if you're talking about this page for example: https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/creating-accessible-pdfs.html It has an image that shows a summary of what needs to be done in InDesign as a list and then an arrow going over to PDF icon. The image has no ALT tag. I too have been exploring InDesign today for a couple of reasons. 1. To get some basic understanding of it just in case that is what our campus uses for the student newsletter which is currently made in Canva and exported as a horribly tagged PDF. 2. Level Access told me they used InDesign to create their well done brochure The State of Digital Accessibility then exported to PDF. Since I'm mid-way through the same journey as you I don't have a lot of info to share, yet. I did find the early part of this video useful on looking at some of the settings in InDesign that impact making an accessible PDF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiqw3rBWDWk Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 (currently working remotely and don't have access to this phone) -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 1:47 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello all, I tried to find info on the Adobe site on how to get accessible output with InDesign. There is a paragraph saying that there is info on that topic, but it has no links, and I have just struck out. If anybody on the list can point me to info on using InDesign for accessible output, I would be most grateful. I continueo to marvel that the Adobe accessibility web site is itself not accessible. The site violates one of the most fundamental guidelines - of not using things like "click here"... This one has a zillion links, all of which say "read more" and it is not always clear what a given link refers to. Very helpful. John John Gardner President 541.754.4002 x 200 www.viewplus.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This message and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited; please notify the sender and delete the message. ViewPlus Technologies, Inc. accepts no liability for damage of any kind resulting from this email. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list From john.gardner at viewplus.com Sat May 8 08:28:26 2021 From: john.gardner at viewplus.com (John Gardner) Date: Sat May 8 08:28:43 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Doug and Steve, thanks for the help. I have read Doug's indicated Adobe page from top to bottom, and my initial reaction is that somebody must be crazy. I am trying to help a woman who creates the newsletter for the high school I graduated from a couple millenia ago. She is a competent computer user but is not a geek who can understand the language on that page. Nor am I actually. And now Steve tells me that even that ridiculous instruction set is inadequate. No wonder that PDFs are seldom accessible. Nobody would take the considerable time and effort to make a PDF accessible unless she has a gun aimed at her head. Maybe the somebody who is crazy is us to put up with such nonsense. Unfortunately, many people of the generation who get this newsletter still read it on paper, and PDF is good for that. Too bad that Adobe doesn't care to make the process more automatic. I don't know what advice I can give to this editor. For sure I can't direct her to this Adobe page that would cause most people to just freak out. The major problem with her newsletters is that much of the text is inside graphics. Since I don't know how it gets converted to graphics, I can't even tell her what not to do. Any advice from you? This experience has given me even more respect for the hard-working people on this list who have no choice but to put up with the nonsense! Very much thanks. John -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2021 6:40 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? The process that Adobe describe on that page is very good as far as it goes, but there are a lot of things it doesn't cover. One of the joys of accessible PDFs is that even after 15 years of creating, testing and remediating them, we still learn new things on every project. You can teach yourself from all the disparate sources of information, but I recommend getting professional training from Ted Page - see https://accessible-digital-documents.com/training/accessible-pdfs-from-indesign/ Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of Hayman, Douglass Sent: 07 May 2021 23:21 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? John, I see what you mean about their site, if you're talking about this page for example: https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/creating-accessible-pdfs.html It has an image that shows a summary of what needs to be done in InDesign as a list and then an arrow going over to PDF icon. The image has no ALT tag. I too have been exploring InDesign today for a couple of reasons. 1. To get some basic understanding of it just in case that is what our campus uses for the student newsletter which is currently made in Canva and exported as a horribly tagged PDF. 2. Level Access told me they used InDesign to create their well done brochure The State of Digital Accessibility then exported to PDF. Since I'm mid-way through the same journey as you I don't have a lot of info to share, yet. I did find the early part of this video useful on looking at some of the settings in InDesign that impact making an accessible PDF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiqw3rBWDWk Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 (currently working remotely and don't have access to this phone) -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 1:47 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello all, I tried to find info on the Adobe site on how to get accessible output with InDesign. There is a paragraph saying that there is info on that topic, but it has no links, and I have just struck out. If anybody on the list can point me to info on using InDesign for accessible output, I would be most grateful. I continueo to marvel that the Adobe accessibility web site is itself not accessible. The site violates one of the most fundamental guidelines - of not using things like "click here"... This one has a zillion links, all of which say "read more" and it is not always clear what a given link refers to. Very helpful. John John Gardner President 541.754.4002 x 200 www.viewplus.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This message and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited; please notify the sender and delete the message. ViewPlus Technologies, Inc. accepts no liability for damage of any kind resulting from this email. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list From steve.green at testpartners.co.uk Sat May 8 13:02:13 2021 From: steve.green at testpartners.co.uk (Steve Green) Date: Sat May 8 13:02:41 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's not fair to blame Adobe for this. InDesign is an extremely powerful and flexible tool for creating documents for print and electronic formats. The price for having all that power and flexibility, is that you need to learn how to use it. InDesign cannot know what the reading order is supposed to be or what the alternate text for images should be (or if the images are decorative) or if a piece of text is supposed to be a heading (let alone what level of heading). Only the author knows those things and many more. One solution is to use a simpler authoring program, such as Word. You still have some of the same issues, such as the alternate text. However, the reading order is automatically correct as long as you don't insert textboxes or use tables to control the layout. Another solution is to get someone with the necessary skills to create one or more templates, so most of the accessibility is baked in. The templates will come with instructions like "always do xyz" or "never do xyz" and you will probably be constrained to using a set of paragraph styles (which you will be asked to specify). You won't have total flexibility, but you should have enough as long as the requirements are defined sufficiently in advance of making the templates. Steve -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: 08 May 2021 16:28 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Doug and Steve, thanks for the help. I have read Doug's indicated Adobe page from top to bottom, and my initial reaction is that somebody must be crazy. I am trying to help a woman who creates the newsletter for the high school I graduated from a couple millenia ago. She is a competent computer user but is not a geek who can understand the language on that page. Nor am I actually. And now Steve tells me that even that ridiculous instruction set is inadequate. No wonder that PDFs are seldom accessible. Nobody would take the considerable time and effort to make a PDF accessible unless she has a gun aimed at her head. Maybe the somebody who is crazy is us to put up with such nonsense. Unfortunately, many people of the generation who get this newsletter still read it on paper, and PDF is good for that. Too bad that Adobe doesn't care to make the process more automatic. I don't know what advice I can give to this editor. For sure I can't direct her to this Adobe page that would cause most people to just freak out. The major problem with her newsletters is that much of the text is inside graphics. Since I don't know how it gets converted to graphics, I can't even tell her what not to do. Any advice from you? This experience has given me even more respect for the hard-working people on this list who have no choice but to put up with the nonsense! Very much thanks. John -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2021 6:40 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? The process that Adobe describe on that page is very good as far as it goes, but there are a lot of things it doesn't cover. One of the joys of accessible PDFs is that even after 15 years of creating, testing and remediating them, we still learn new things on every project. You can teach yourself from all the disparate sources of information, but I recommend getting professional training from Ted Page - see https://accessible-digital-documents.com/training/accessible-pdfs-from-indesign/ Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of Hayman, Douglass Sent: 07 May 2021 23:21 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? John, I see what you mean about their site, if you're talking about this page for example: https://helpx.adobe.com/indesign/using/creating-accessible-pdfs.html It has an image that shows a summary of what needs to be done in InDesign as a list and then an arrow going over to PDF icon. The image has no ALT tag. I too have been exploring InDesign today for a couple of reasons. 1. To get some basic understanding of it just in case that is what our campus uses for the student newsletter which is currently made in Canva and exported as a horribly tagged PDF. 2. Level Access told me they used InDesign to create their well done brochure The State of Digital Accessibility then exported to PDF. Since I'm mid-way through the same journey as you I don't have a lot of info to share, yet. I did find the early part of this video useful on looking at some of the settings in InDesign that impact making an accessible PDF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiqw3rBWDWk Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 (currently working remotely and don't have access to this phone) -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 1:47 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? CAUTION: This email came from a non-OC system or external source. Beware of phishing and social engineering! Hello all, I tried to find info on the Adobe site on how to get accessible output with InDesign. There is a paragraph saying that there is info on that topic, but it has no links, and I have just struck out. If anybody on the list can point me to info on using InDesign for accessible output, I would be most grateful. I continueo to marvel that the Adobe accessibility web site is itself not accessible. The site violates one of the most fundamental guidelines - of not using things like "click here"... This one has a zillion links, all of which say "read more" and it is not always clear what a given link refers to. Very helpful. John John Gardner President 541.754.4002 x 200 www.viewplus.com PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This message and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination or distribution is strictly prohibited; please notify the sender and delete the message. ViewPlus Technologies, Inc. accepts no liability for damage of any kind resulting from this email. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list From Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu Mon May 10 07:21:24 2021 From: Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu (Susan Kelmer) Date: Mon May 10 07:22:48 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T?303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From tristenbreitenfeldt at gmail.com Mon May 10 10:34:12 2021 From: tristenbreitenfeldt at gmail.com (tristenbreitenfeldt@gmail.com) Date: Mon May 10 10:34:19 2021 Subject: [Athen] Petition to open source ETI-Eloquence Message-ID: <01c801d745c2$b16f43b0$144dcb10$@gmail.com> Greetings, There is currently a petition for Microsoft to open source eloquence. This could open up a number of doorways. Such as getting eloquence in narrator, fixing bugs in eloquence so that all characters are spoken such as math symbols, making it legal to use the add on for NVDA, and much more I am sure I did not mention! It sounds like Microsoft absorbed the company Nuance, which is the current owner of eloquence, and people are optimistic that Microsoft would be open to the idea of open sourcing eloquence because Microsoft has started embracing accessibility and open source software over the past few years. There is already a shocking number of signatures. Please pass it on to anyone that you know who would be interested in this. Here is the petition: https://www.change.org/p/microsoft-open-source-eti-eloquence?recruiter=11976 51022 &utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_mes sage&utm_term=psf_combo_share_message&recruited_by_id=74f2e140-a624-11eb-ba8 b-1f9f1163f704 Tristen Breitenfeldt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 37035 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danc at uw.edu Mon May 10 11:12:06 2021 From: danc at uw.edu (Dan Comden) Date: Mon May 10 11:12:48 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about accessibility. On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer wrote: > Okay, to be fair... > > InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to > be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes > and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be > printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement > for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto > knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even > longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides > all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for > this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely > effectively. > > If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've > always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. > InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output > into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that > purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be > written from the ground up. > > And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if > there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign > produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. > > Susan Kelmer > Alternate Format Production Program Manager > Disability Services > Division of Student Affairs > T 303 735 4836 > www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices > > Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this > message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please > notify the sender immediately and delete this message. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -- -*- Dan Comden danc@uw.edu Access Technology Center www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/ University of Washington UW Information Technology -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Catherine.Stager at frontrange.edu Mon May 10 11:12:14 2021 From: Catherine.Stager at frontrange.edu (Stager, Catherine) Date: Mon May 10 11:14:35 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? AHG resources Message-ID: <4bd9739a27824c41a7d2439b02ff0128@frontrange.edu> Bevi Chagnon has shared her expertise in this area for the last several years at Accessing Higher Ground - I know you can purchase access to the video recordings if anyone is interested. 2018 has a five hour workshop - https://accessinghigherground.org/accessible-adobe-indesign-layouts-to-produce-accessible-pdfs-and-epubs/ 2019 https://accessinghigherground.org/accessible-indesign-pdf-refresher/ (no video - 2 hour session transcripts or audio) (FREE) 2020: https://accessinghigherground.org/adobe-indesign-layouts-to-produce-accessible-pdfs/ (3 hours). This was a preconference session - I believe access is $90. -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 8:21 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Colorado Community College System. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please contact your college IT Help Desk if you have any questions. Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list From steve.green at testpartners.co.uk Mon May 10 11:36:02 2021 From: steve.green at testpartners.co.uk (Steve Green) Date: Mon May 10 11:36:31 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That would be the wrong conclusion to draw. Andrew Kirkpatrick is the Director of Accessibility at Adobe ? he has been there 15 years and is also Co-Chair and Editor for WCAG. See https://www.linkedin.com/in/akirkpatrick/. He advocates very hard for accessibility in Adobe products. The real problem is that people expect to use these extremely complex applications without any training at all, and they expect the application to read their mind and magically do all the things they want but haven?t learned to do. All it takes is a one-day training course that costs about $200 per person, but instead people flounder around for months or years and blame it all on Adobe. Frankly, I think it?s unprofessional for people to behave this way. Susan is actually overstating the case against InDesign. With a day?s training, it is not difficult to create a highly accessible PDF from InDesign that requires little or no remediation in Acrobat. That said, if you are not also creating a print version of the document, InDesign may well not be the most appropriate application to be using. Steve From: athen-list On Behalf Of Dan Comden Sent: 10 May 2021 19:12 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about accessibility. On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer > wrote: Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -- -*- Dan Comden danc@uw.edu Access Technology Center www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/ University of Washington UW Information Technology -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From K4mccall at outlook.com Mon May 10 11:49:47 2021 From: K4mccall at outlook.com (Karen McCall) Date: Mon May 10 11:50:20 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I?d direct people to Bevi Chagnon of PubCom.com who has excellent information on accessible PDF from InDesign, has presented pre-conference workshops on the topic, and offers training for those using InDesign to create documents and forms that convert/export to accessible PDF. Training Options ? PubCom.com I would agree, it is the same with all of the formats we work in?people need to know how to create well designed, well structured content?they need to learn how to use the tools. ? Cheers, Karen From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:36 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? That would be the wrong conclusion to draw. Andrew Kirkpatrick is the Director of Accessibility at Adobe ? he has been there 15 years and is also Co-Chair and Editor for WCAG. See https://www.linkedin.com/in/akirkpatrick/. He advocates very hard for accessibility in Adobe products. The real problem is that people expect to use these extremely complex applications without any training at all, and they expect the application to read their mind and magically do all the things they want but haven?t learned to do. All it takes is a one-day training course that costs about $200 per person, but instead people flounder around for months or years and blame it all on Adobe. Frankly, I think it?s unprofessional for people to behave this way. Susan is actually overstating the case against InDesign. With a day?s training, it is not difficult to create a highly accessible PDF from InDesign that requires little or no remediation in Acrobat. That said, if you are not also creating a print version of the document, InDesign may well not be the most appropriate application to be using. Steve From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Dan Comden Sent: 10 May 2021 19:12 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about accessibility. On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer > wrote: Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -- -*- Dan Comden danc@uw.edu Access Technology Center www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/ University of Washington UW Information Technology -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chagnon at pubcom.com Mon May 10 14:17:18 2021 From: chagnon at pubcom.com (chagnon@pubcom.com) Date: Mon May 10 14:17:56 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008c01d745e1$dbb158b0$93140a10$@pubcom.com> Susan K?s comments below about Adobe InDesign are correct. And I?ll add one more factor: Yes, you can make a nearly fully accessible PDF from an InDesign layout?If you have training in both accessibility concepts and how to use InDesign?s advanced tools. InDesign is not a word processing program like Word and Google Docs. It?s used to create documents that are much more complex than word processing, and it?s also a professional typesetting and graphics design layout tool. Given that, it?s not the type of tool you can just pick up and learn on your own. You must be trained in how to use InDesign. And if you want to make accessible PDFs from InDesign, you?ll need advanced training in that process. Just like when you want to make accessible PDFs from Word or PowerPoint, you?ll need advanced training. There are no ?easy buttons? for accessibility in any software program. The industry is decades away from having automatically building accessibility into the files we create. Places to learn accessibility with Adobe InDesign: * My classes, of courses and books! (shameless PR) www.pubcom.com/classes * My conference sessions at AHG and other industry conferences https://accessinghigherground.org/ * Creative Pro conference next week (I?m hosting one session there, and my colleagues are hosting others) https://creativeproweek.com/ There are extremely few online video training courses I recommend because nearly all of the ones I?ve reviewed have either inaccurate information, insufficient information, or really don?t understand what an accessible PDF requires. I have a lot of people in my classes who learned elsewhere, and then had to be retrained in the correct methods. RE: Adobe?s commitment put into perspective ? I?ve been connected to Adobe since John Warnock developed scalable PostScript fonts in 1985. Never a paid employee, but I am an unpaid beta tester, unpaid advisor, and unpaid ACP (Adobe Community Professional) in Adobe?s online forums. I?ve also been in similar positions with Microsoft and over 100 other software development companies. Although far from perfect, Adobe does have a solid commitment to accessibility. I just spent a couple of days in the ISO standards committees for PDFs with Adobe?s engineers and a few dozen other software engineers from around the world. You might not see that commitment, but I do, first hand and up close. But I sure wish they?d do even more, of course. Microsoft is also dedicated to accessibility, but I don?t see them in the ISO committees for PDF. However, we all see M S do a fair amount of advertising about their accessibility tools, like Immersive Reader. For some reason, Adobe?s marketing department doesn?t do a shred of advertising about their accessibility work, even though it?s there. And to be frank, no company that creates accessible PDFs could do that without Adobe?s foundation work on PDFs and accessibility. Adobe?s work comes first in creating the accessibility standards for PDF as well as the first programs, and then other companies follow Adobe?s lead. And take all the glory, too. In sum, it?s a mixed bag from all of our software manufacturers. ? ? ? Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | Chagnon@PubCom.com ? ? ? PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting ? training ? development ? design ? sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes ? ? ? Latest blog-newsletter ? Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text From: athen-list On Behalf Of Dan Comden Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:12 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about accessibility. On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer > wrote: Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chagnon at pubcom.com Mon May 10 16:03:01 2021 From: chagnon at pubcom.com (chagnon@pubcom.com) Date: Mon May 10 16:03:40 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? AHG resources In-Reply-To: <4bd9739a27824c41a7d2439b02ff0128@frontrange.edu> References: <4bd9739a27824c41a7d2439b02ff0128@frontrange.edu> Message-ID: <00bd01d745f0$a06acb60$e1406220$@pubcom.com> And I'm hoping to be accepted to present again at November's AHG conference. - - - Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | Chagnon@PubCom.com - - - PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes - - - Latest blog-newsletter - Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of Stager, Catherine Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:12 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? AHG resources Bevi Chagnon has shared her expertise in this area for the last several years at Accessing Higher Ground - I know you can purchase access to the video recordings if anyone is interested. 2018 has a five hour workshop - https://accessinghigherground.org/accessible-adobe-indesign-layouts-to-produ ce-accessible-pdfs-and-epubs/ 2019 https://accessinghigherground.org/accessible-indesign-pdf-refresher/ (no video - 2 hour session transcripts or audio) (FREE) 2020: https://accessinghigherground.org/adobe-indesign-layouts-to-produce-accessib le-pdfs/ (3 hours). This was a preconference session - I believe access is $90. -----Original Message----- From: athen-list On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 8:21 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Colorado Community College System. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please contact your college IT Help Desk if you have any questions. Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list _______________________________________________ athen-list mailing list athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list From john.gardner at viewplus.com Mon May 10 16:03:59 2021 From: john.gardner at viewplus.com (John Gardner) Date: Mon May 10 16:04:37 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: <008c01d745e1$dbb158b0$93140a10$@pubcom.com> References: <008c01d745e1$dbb158b0$93140a10$@pubcom.com> Message-ID: Hi, I do appreciate the comments and advice from all of you on InDesign. Susan Kilmer?s comments on origin/development explain why the problem exists. As a businessman I well understand about investment and economic incentive. However, as a blind person I am not so willing to forgive Adobe for what is such a difficult application to use accessibly. I know InDesign is a complex application designed for making pretty paper copy. But it will not sell today unless it can produce on-line content too, and if it had been created with accessibility in mind, a user would not need so much training on how to make things accessible. Depending on the user, she may need training on using InDesign, but then the accessibility should come moreor less automatically. It does not, and the fact that we understand why it is inaccessible is, in the end, just an excuse. John ue on? job of an older inaccessible app and there is no economic incentive for Adobe to do a re-design, then I can understand why we are stuck with it. And will be forever unless an economic justification comes over the horizon. From: athen-list On Behalf Of chagnon@pubcom.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:17 PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Susan K?s comments below about Adobe InDesign are correct. And I?ll add one more factor: Yes, you can make a nearly fully accessible PDF from an InDesign layout?If you have training in both accessibility concepts and how to use InDesign?s advanced tools. InDesign is not a word processing program like Word and Google Docs. It?s used to create documents that are much more complex than word processing, and it?s also a professional typesetting and graphics design layout tool. Given that, it?s not the type of tool you can just pick up and learn on your own. You must be trained in how to use InDesign. And if you want to make accessible PDFs from InDesign, you?ll need advanced training in that process. Just like when you want to make accessible PDFs from Word or PowerPoint, you?ll need advanced training. There are no ?easy buttons? for accessibility in any software program. The industry is decades away from having automatically building accessibility into the files we create. Places to learn accessibility with Adobe InDesign: ? My classes, of courses and books! (shameless PR) www.pubcom.com/classes ? My conference sessions at AHG and other industry conferences https://accessinghigherground.org/ ? Creative Pro conference next week (I?m hosting one session there, and my colleagues are hosting others) https://creativeproweek.com/ There are extremely few online video training courses I recommend because nearly all of the ones I?ve reviewed have either inaccurate information, insufficient information, or really don?t understand what an accessible PDF requires. I have a lot of people in my classes who learned elsewhere, and then had to be retrained in the correct methods. RE: Adobe?s commitment put into perspective ? I?ve been connected to Adobe since John Warnock developed scalable PostScript fonts in 1985. Never a paid employee, but I am an unpaid beta tester, unpaid advisor, and unpaid ACP (Adobe Community Professional) in Adobe?s online forums. I?ve also been in similar positions with Microsoft and over 100 other software development companies. Although far from perfect, Adobe does have a solid commitment to accessibility. I just spent a couple of days in the ISO standards committees for PDFs with Adobe?s engineers and a few dozen other software engineers from around the world. You might not see that commitment, but I do, first hand and up close. But I sure wish they?d do even more, of course. Microsoft is also dedicated to accessibility, but I don?t see them in the ISO committees for PDF. However, we all see M S do a fair amount of advertising about their accessibility tools, like Immersive Reader. For some reason, Adobe?s marketing department doesn?t do a shred of advertising about their accessibility work, even though it?s there. And to be frank, no company that creates accessible PDFs could do that without Adobe?s foundation work on PDFs and accessibility. Adobe?s work comes first in creating the accessibility standards for PDF as well as the first programs, and then other companies follow Adobe?s lead. And take all the glory, too. In sum, it?s a mixed bag from all of our software manufacturers. ? ? ? Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | Chagnon@PubCom.com ? ? ? PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting ? training ? development ? design ? sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes ? ? ? Latest blog-newsletter ? Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Dan Comden Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:12 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about accessibility. On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer > wrote: Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkramer at ahead.org Mon May 10 18:24:30 2021 From: hkramer at ahead.org (Howard Kramer) Date: Mon May 10 18:25:45 2021 Subject: [Athen] RFP: AHG 2021: 1 day left to submit 1st-round proposals Message-ID: (please excuse the cross-posts) Proposal Deadline: May 12 *Accessing Higher Ground 2021* *is now accepting proposals for its 24th Annual Conference in Denver, Colorado. * *Covid-19 and the Conference* Since it is difficult to predict with certainty what the state of affairs will be in November we encourage individuals to submit proposals even if they are not sure yet if they will be able to travel. Submitters will not be penalized for submitting a proposal and later declining to present at the conference onsite. The option to present remotely will be determined as we get closer to November. Speaker Proposal Form *AHG focuses on:* ? accessible media ? Universal Design ? best practices for web & media development ? accessible curriculum ? alternate format ? teaching about accessibility and UD in university curriculum (and elsewhere) ? evidence-based research ? other topics related to accessibility in higher education and other environments * Submission Details* Use the online speaker proposal form to submit your proposal. Additional speaker information can be found on the AHG website . *More Info* View last year?s sessions to get a sense of the typical agenda and range of topics. If you have any questions about proposal submission, contact Howard Kramer at 720-351-8668 or at the email below. e-mail: ahg@ahead.org Conference URL: http://accessinghigherground.org/ -- Regards, Howard Howard Kramer Conference Coordinator Accessing Higher Ground 303-492-8672 cell: 720-351-8668 Sign up to access the recordings from the *2020 Accessing Higher Ground Conference * and for AHG 2021 'Watch Parties .' Sign up to our mailing list to receive announcements . Complete program information and registration is open for AHEAD's full line-up of Spring 2021 webinars . Not yet a member of AHEAD? *We welcome you to join AHEAD now. * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phil at d4k.ca Mon May 10 19:01:14 2021 From: phil at d4k.ca (Philip Kiff) Date: Mon May 10 19:01:27 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: <008c01d745e1$dbb158b0$93140a10$@pubcom.com> Message-ID: On the topic of the history of InDesign and accessibility, it may be interesting to point here out that I actually started using InDesign specifically because unlike QuarkXpress (its primary competitor in professional-level desktop publishing at the time), InDesign could actually generate a tagged PDF! I think I was comparing InDesign CS3 to QuarkXpress 7 or something? Back in the mid-2000's, I was evaluating whether to migrate a non-profit research institute over to using InDesign for their posters and newsletters and other print materials. QuarkXpress was the clear market leader, and the preferred software of professionals at the time, but when I reached out to QuarkXpress on their discussion forums and directly via email about accessible PDFs, no one even bothered to respond. Nothing. Just crickets....(later) Hah, I found the discussion thread, check it out: Quark to PDf accessibility: https://forums.quark.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=16806 While Adobe InDesign at this same time not only included the ability to associate tags with text objects, and to properly control reading order of a PDF generated from an InDesign layout, but they actually included an entire accessibility section in their online materials. So, funnily enough, in my case, it was precisely Adobe's focus and attention to accessibility that actually drove me to use InDesign in the first place. Phil. Philip Kiff D4K Communications On 2021-05-10 19:03, John Gardner wrote: > > Hi, I do appreciate the comments and advice from all of you on > InDesign. Susan Kilmer?s comments on origin/development explain why > the problem exists. As a businessman I well understand about > investment and economic incentive. However, as a blind person I am not > so willing to forgive Adobe for what is such a difficult application > to use accessibly. I know InDesign is a complex application designed > for making pretty paper copy. But it will not sell today unless it can > produce on-line content too, and if it had been created with > accessibility in mind, a user would not need so much training on how > to make things accessible. Depending on the user, she may need > training on using InDesign, but then the accessibility should come > moreor less automatically. It does not, and the fact that we > understand why it is inaccessible is, in the end, just an excuse. > > John > > ue on? job of an older inaccessible app and there is no economic > incentive for Adobe to do a re-design, then I can understand why we > are stuck with it. And will be forever unless an economic > justification comes over the horizon. > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *chagnon@pubcom.com > *Sent:* Monday, May 10, 2021 2:17 PM > *To:* 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > > *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? > > Susan K?s comments below about Adobe InDesign are correct. > > And I?ll add one more factor: > > Yes, you can make a nearly fully accessible PDF from an InDesign > layout?If you have training in both accessibility concepts and how to > use InDesign?s advanced tools. > > InDesign is not a word processing program like Word and Google Docs. > It?s used to create documents that are much more complex than word > processing, and it?s also a professional typesetting and graphics > design layout tool. Given that, it?s not the type of tool you can just > pick up and learn on your own. You must be trained in how to use InDesign. > > And if you want to make accessible PDFs from InDesign, you?ll need > advanced training in that process. > > Just like when you want to make accessible PDFs from Word or > PowerPoint, you?ll need advanced training. > > There are no ?easy buttons? for accessibility in any software program. > The industry is decades away from having automatically building > accessibility into the files we create. > > Places to learn accessibility with Adobe InDesign: > > ?My classes, of courses and books! (shameless PR) > www.pubcom.com/classes > > ?My conference sessions at AHG and other industry conferences > https://accessinghigherground.org/ > > ?Creative Pro conference next week (I?m hosting one session there, and > my colleagues are hosting others) https://creativeproweek.com/ > > > There are extremely few online video training courses I recommend > because nearly all of the ones I?ve reviewed have either inaccurate > information, insufficient information, or really don?t understand what > an accessible PDF requires. I have a lot of people in my classes who > learned elsewhere, and then had to be retrained in the correct methods. > > *RE: Adobe?s commitment put into perspective ?* > > I?ve been connected to Adobe since John Warnock developed scalable > PostScript fonts in 1985. Never a paid employee, but I am an unpaid > beta tester, unpaid advisor, and unpaid ACP (Adobe Community > Professional) in Adobe?s online forums. I?ve also been in similar > positions with Microsoft and over 100 other software development > companies. > > Although far from perfect, Adobe does have a solid commitment to > accessibility. I just spent a couple of days in the ISO standards > committees for PDFs with Adobe?s engineers and a few dozen other > software engineers from around the world. You might not see that > commitment, but I do, first hand and up close. But I sure wish they?d > do even more, of course. > > Microsoft is also dedicated to accessibility, but I don?t see them in > the ISO committees for PDF. However, we all see M S do a fair amount > of advertising about their accessibility tools, like Immersive Reader. > For some reason, Adobe?s marketing department doesn?t do a shred of > advertising about their accessibility work, even though it?s there. > > And to be frank, no company that creates accessible PDFs could do that > without Adobe?s foundation work on PDFs and accessibility. Adobe?s > work comes first in creating the accessibility standards for PDF as > well as the first programs, and then other companies follow Adobe?s > lead. And take all the glory, too. > > In sum, it?s a mixed bag from all of our software manufacturers. > > *? ? ?* > > Bevi Chagnon *| *Designer, Accessibility Technician*|* > Chagnon@PubCom.com > > *? ? ?* > > *PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing* > > consulting ? training ? development ? design ? sec. 508 services > > *Upcoming classes* at www.PubCom.com/*classes* > > > *? ? ?* > > Latest blog-newsletter > ? *Simple > Guide to Writing Alt-Text > * > > *From:* athen-list > *On Behalf Of > *Dan Comden > *Sent:* Monday, May 10, 2021 2:12 PM > *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network > > > *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? > > Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process > and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come > to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about > accessibility. > > On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer > > wrote: > > Okay, to be fair... > > InDesign is for laying out material.? It is what Adobe Pagemaker > used to be (for those of you who have been around a while).? You > make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come > up with a file that can be printed onto paper.? Ala 1990. InDesign > and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of > physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue > and light boards (for those that have been around even longer).? > In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all > that accessibility for the outputted file.? I do not fault Adobe > for this.? There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do > this completely effectively. > > If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what > you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the > completed file.? InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word > is.? Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF.? > InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old > Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. > > And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like > Adobe is if there is money in it.? No one is clamoring to Adobe to > make InDesign produce accessible PDFs.? Until? they are, that > won't change. > > Susan Kelmer > Alternate Format Production Program Manager > Disability Services > Division of Student Affairs > T?303 735 4836 > www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices > > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steve.green at testpartners.co.uk Mon May 10 19:23:39 2021 From: steve.green at testpartners.co.uk (Steve Green) Date: Mon May 10 19:24:38 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: <008c01d745e1$dbb158b0$93140a10$@pubcom.com> Message-ID: John, what you are asking for is unreasonable and currently no application can do it. An application cannot know if a particular piece of text is supposed to be a heading, let alone what heading level. If the layout is not a single column, an application cannot know what the expected reading order is. An application cannot know what the appropriate alternate text should be for an image because the same image may need different alternate text depending on the context in which it appears. Don?t expect artificial intelligence to help with this to any extent in the next decade or two. How many job roles can you think of that require no training at all? Probably very few, and certainly none that use complex technology. So why do you think that no training at all should be required by people who create documents? The tools are there to make documents accessible, and it only takes a day or so to learn to use them. If it?s someone?s job to create accessible documents, then they should get trained appropriately ? it?s not as if it takes long or costs much. Steve From: athen-list On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: 11 May 2021 00:04 To: chagnon@pubcom.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Hi, I do appreciate the comments and advice from all of you on InDesign. Susan Kilmer?s comments on origin/development explain why the problem exists. As a businessman I well understand about investment and economic incentive. However, as a blind person I am not so willing to forgive Adobe for what is such a difficult application to use accessibly. I know InDesign is a complex application designed for making pretty paper copy. But it will not sell today unless it can produce on-line content too, and if it had been created with accessibility in mind, a user would not need so much training on how to make things accessible. Depending on the user, she may need training on using InDesign, but then the accessibility should come moreor less automatically. It does not, and the fact that we understand why it is inaccessible is, in the end, just an excuse. John ue on? job of an older inaccessible app and there is no economic incentive for Adobe to do a re-design, then I can understand why we are stuck with it. And will be forever unless an economic justification comes over the horizon. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of chagnon@pubcom.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:17 PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Susan K?s comments below about Adobe InDesign are correct. And I?ll add one more factor: Yes, you can make a nearly fully accessible PDF from an InDesign layout?If you have training in both accessibility concepts and how to use InDesign?s advanced tools. InDesign is not a word processing program like Word and Google Docs. It?s used to create documents that are much more complex than word processing, and it?s also a professional typesetting and graphics design layout tool. Given that, it?s not the type of tool you can just pick up and learn on your own. You must be trained in how to use InDesign. And if you want to make accessible PDFs from InDesign, you?ll need advanced training in that process. Just like when you want to make accessible PDFs from Word or PowerPoint, you?ll need advanced training. There are no ?easy buttons? for accessibility in any software program. The industry is decades away from having automatically building accessibility into the files we create. Places to learn accessibility with Adobe InDesign: ? My classes, of courses and books! (shameless PR) www.pubcom.com/classes ? My conference sessions at AHG and other industry conferences https://accessinghigherground.org/ ? Creative Pro conference next week (I?m hosting one session there, and my colleagues are hosting others) https://creativeproweek.com/ There are extremely few online video training courses I recommend because nearly all of the ones I?ve reviewed have either inaccurate information, insufficient information, or really don?t understand what an accessible PDF requires. I have a lot of people in my classes who learned elsewhere, and then had to be retrained in the correct methods. RE: Adobe?s commitment put into perspective ? I?ve been connected to Adobe since John Warnock developed scalable PostScript fonts in 1985. Never a paid employee, but I am an unpaid beta tester, unpaid advisor, and unpaid ACP (Adobe Community Professional) in Adobe?s online forums. I?ve also been in similar positions with Microsoft and over 100 other software development companies. Although far from perfect, Adobe does have a solid commitment to accessibility. I just spent a couple of days in the ISO standards committees for PDFs with Adobe?s engineers and a few dozen other software engineers from around the world. You might not see that commitment, but I do, first hand and up close. But I sure wish they?d do even more, of course. Microsoft is also dedicated to accessibility, but I don?t see them in the ISO committees for PDF. However, we all see M S do a fair amount of advertising about their accessibility tools, like Immersive Reader. For some reason, Adobe?s marketing department doesn?t do a shred of advertising about their accessibility work, even though it?s there. And to be frank, no company that creates accessible PDFs could do that without Adobe?s foundation work on PDFs and accessibility. Adobe?s work comes first in creating the accessibility standards for PDF as well as the first programs, and then other companies follow Adobe?s lead. And take all the glory, too. In sum, it?s a mixed bag from all of our software manufacturers. ? ? ? Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | Chagnon@PubCom.com ? ? ? PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting ? training ? development ? design ? sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes ? ? ? Latest blog-newsletter ? Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Dan Comden Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:12 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about accessibility. On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer > wrote: Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Bryon-Kluesner at utc.edu Tue May 11 08:07:56 2021 From: Bryon-Kluesner at utc.edu (Kluesner, Bryon) Date: Tue May 11 08:08:07 2021 Subject: [Athen] Digital recorder / hearing aid compatability Message-ID: Hi all, We have a student coming this fall who uses hearing aids. The student is asking for a digital recorder that she can connect to their hearing aid so they can listen to their lectures. Do you know of such a device or recommended recorder? Thanks, Bryon Bryon Kluesner, RhD Adaptive Technology Coordinator Disability Resource Center University of Tennessee at Chattanooga 352 University Center Chattanooga, TN 37403 423-425-5251 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffreydell99 at gmail.com Tue May 11 08:27:31 2021 From: jeffreydell99 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Dell) Date: Tue May 11 08:27:51 2021 Subject: [Athen] Digital recorder / hearing aid compatability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1AA0C116-844C-4356-B898-29081D503DDA@gmail.com> If the student has a hearing aid that can do T switch a.k.a. induction coil interface then you can use a neck loop to plug into the headphone jack to get to the hearing aids. If the student has Bluetooth compatible hearing aids then you could use just about any android or iOS compatible device as the recorder. Best regards, Jeff Sent from my iPhone. please excuse errors from using Apple's dictation feature. > On May 11, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Kluesner, Bryon wrote: > > ? > Hi all, > > We have a student coming this fall who uses hearing aids. The student is asking for a digital recorder that she can connect to their hearing aid so they can listen to their lectures. Do you know of such a device or recommended recorder? > > Thanks, > > Bryon > > Bryon Kluesner, RhD > Adaptive Technology Coordinator > Disability Resource Center > University of Tennessee at Chattanooga > 352 University Center > Chattanooga, TN 37403 > 423-425-5251 > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.gardner at viewplus.com Tue May 11 09:13:27 2021 From: john.gardner at viewplus.com (John Gardner) Date: Tue May 11 09:13:43 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: <008c01d745e1$dbb158b0$93140a10$@pubcom.com> Message-ID: Steve, I fear I am not communicating. I am not talking about people whose job is to create accessible materials. I am talking about people who know just enough about InDesign to make something. Basically I believe you are saying that such people should just forget about accessibility unless they are willing to become experts. I believe you now, but sorry, that is a real shame. I don?t understand why this app cannot know that something is a heading or are columns. If headings and columns were created as part of the normal creation process (and they are for many word processors), then one would not need to add that information. I do agree that alt text for figures needs to be added though. And in cases where the reading order is not obvious (and I suspect that it is more usually obvious than not), then some additional information is needed that would usually not be required for simpler applications. In any case, this conversation has probably already over-stayed its welcome on this list, so if anybody wants to continue this conversation please contact me off list. I will post no more on the topic. John From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 7:24 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? John, what you are asking for is unreasonable and currently no application can do it. An application cannot know if a particular piece of text is supposed to be a heading, let alone what heading level. If the layout is not a single column, an application cannot know what the expected reading order is. An application cannot know what the appropriate alternate text should be for an image because the same image may need different alternate text depending on the context in which it appears. Don?t expect artificial intelligence to help with this to any extent in the next decade or two. How many job roles can you think of that require no training at all? Probably very few, and certainly none that use complex technology. So why do you think that no training at all should be required by people who create documents? The tools are there to make documents accessible, and it only takes a day or so to learn to use them. If it?s someone?s job to create accessible documents, then they should get trained appropriately ? it?s not as if it takes long or costs much. Steve From: athen-list > On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: 11 May 2021 00:04 To: chagnon@pubcom.com; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Hi, I do appreciate the comments and advice from all of you on InDesign. Susan Kilmer?s comments on origin/development explain why the problem exists. As a businessman I well understand about investment and economic incentive. However, as a blind person I am not so willing to forgive Adobe for what is such a difficult application to use accessibly. I know InDesign is a complex application designed for making pretty paper copy. But it will not sell today unless it can produce on-line content too, and if it had been created with accessibility in mind, a user would not need so much training on how to make things accessible. Depending on the user, she may need training on using InDesign, but then the accessibility should come moreor less automatically. It does not, and the fact that we understand why it is inaccessible is, in the end, just an excuse. John ue on? job of an older inaccessible app and there is no economic incentive for Adobe to do a re-design, then I can understand why we are stuck with it. And will be forever unless an economic justification comes over the horizon. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of chagnon@pubcom.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:17 PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Susan K?s comments below about Adobe InDesign are correct. And I?ll add one more factor: Yes, you can make a nearly fully accessible PDF from an InDesign layout?If you have training in both accessibility concepts and how to use InDesign?s advanced tools. InDesign is not a word processing program like Word and Google Docs. It?s used to create documents that are much more complex than word processing, and it?s also a professional typesetting and graphics design layout tool. Given that, it?s not the type of tool you can just pick up and learn on your own. You must be trained in how to use InDesign. And if you want to make accessible PDFs from InDesign, you?ll need advanced training in that process. Just like when you want to make accessible PDFs from Word or PowerPoint, you?ll need advanced training. There are no ?easy buttons? for accessibility in any software program. The industry is decades away from having automatically building accessibility into the files we create. Places to learn accessibility with Adobe InDesign: ? My classes, of courses and books! (shameless PR) www.pubcom.com/classes ? My conference sessions at AHG and other industry conferences https://accessinghigherground.org/ ? Creative Pro conference next week (I?m hosting one session there, and my colleagues are hosting others) https://creativeproweek.com/ There are extremely few online video training courses I recommend because nearly all of the ones I?ve reviewed have either inaccurate information, insufficient information, or really don?t understand what an accessible PDF requires. I have a lot of people in my classes who learned elsewhere, and then had to be retrained in the correct methods. RE: Adobe?s commitment put into perspective ? I?ve been connected to Adobe since John Warnock developed scalable PostScript fonts in 1985. Never a paid employee, but I am an unpaid beta tester, unpaid advisor, and unpaid ACP (Adobe Community Professional) in Adobe?s online forums. I?ve also been in similar positions with Microsoft and over 100 other software development companies. Although far from perfect, Adobe does have a solid commitment to accessibility. I just spent a couple of days in the ISO standards committees for PDFs with Adobe?s engineers and a few dozen other software engineers from around the world. You might not see that commitment, but I do, first hand and up close. But I sure wish they?d do even more, of course. Microsoft is also dedicated to accessibility, but I don?t see them in the ISO committees for PDF. However, we all see M S do a fair amount of advertising about their accessibility tools, like Immersive Reader. For some reason, Adobe?s marketing department doesn?t do a shred of advertising about their accessibility work, even though it?s there. And to be frank, no company that creates accessible PDFs could do that without Adobe?s foundation work on PDFs and accessibility. Adobe?s work comes first in creating the accessibility standards for PDF as well as the first programs, and then other companies follow Adobe?s lead. And take all the glory, too. In sum, it?s a mixed bag from all of our software manufacturers. ? ? ? Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | Chagnon@PubCom.com ? ? ? PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting ? training ? development ? design ? sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes ? ? ? Latest blog-newsletter ? Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Dan Comden Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:12 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about accessibility. On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer > wrote: Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu Tue May 11 10:05:14 2021 From: armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu (Deborah Armstrong) Date: Tue May 11 10:05:55 2021 Subject: [Athen] APH's coding symposium Message-ID: I'm listening to the APH coding symposium webinar which happens all week. The idea is to encourage BVI students to consider coding as a career. Many, many impressive speakers! It will be published on the APH Youtube channel, so if you have BVI students who are interested, send them there in a few weeks when the recordings are up! --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tristenbreitenfeldt at gmail.com Tue May 11 11:54:44 2021 From: tristenbreitenfeldt at gmail.com (tristenbreitenfeldt@gmail.com) Date: Tue May 11 11:55:04 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Message-ID: <01e801d74697$1c569000$5503b000$@gmail.com> I have been following this thread and I need to finally add my two cents. As a blind accessibility professional myself, I have had very little success with any of the Adobe products. Even their basic PDF reader is not great for accessibility. My suggestion to all accessibility professionals who are producing accessible materials is that you change your approach slightly. Instead of fighting with proprietary software packages which claim to support accessibility, I suggest spending a few hours to learn Multi Markdown. Multi Markdown is an extension of Markdown, which is a basic (but powerful) scripting language for producing accessible electronic materials which can be converted to almost any accessible format such as .doc, .docx, pdf, html, rtf, daisy, and .brf formats using one markdown (.md) original file. Markdown is kind of the swiss army knife of accessible file conversion. The syntax for Multi Markdown is easy to learn and it can be combined with MathML and LaTec for Math and Science content. And, a really big bonus is that Multi Markdown is also fully accessible for blind and visually impaired professionals to produce accessible alternate formats- thus finally opening up this profession as a viable option for people with visual disabilities. So, in conclusion, I suggest scrapping anything made by Adobe and checking out Multi Markdown for you're your alternative formats production and conversion needs. Sincerely, Tristen Breitenfeldt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 37035 bytes Desc: not available URL: From armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu Tue May 11 12:17:20 2021 From: armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu (Deborah Armstrong) Date: Tue May 11 12:17:31 2021 Subject: [Athen] FW: APH Webinars: Meaningful Image Descriptions for Social Studies Content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From: APH Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 11:34 AM To: Deborah Armstrong Subject: APH Webinars: Meaningful Image Descriptions for Social Studies Content [Dive Into Descriptions: Meaningful Image Descriptions for Social Studies Content]May 17, 2021, 12:00 ? 1:30 PM EST Meaningful Image Descriptions for Social Studies Content Between maps, graphs, political cartoons, and diagrams, images are unavoidable in the social sciences. Offering equitable access to this subject matter remains challenging and can lead to delays in the delivery of braille. When judiciously applied, image descriptions provide students immediate and enhanced access to these difficult materials in the classroom. Attend this webinar and learn how to create meaningful and effective image descriptions in braille for a variety of visual content used in social studies. Register Here [Forward to a Friend] Forward to a Friend [three branding colors as small blocks] Copyright ? 2021 American Printing House, All rights reserved. You are receiving this email because you attended an #AtHomeWithAPH webinar. Our mailing address is: American Printing House 1839 Frankfort Ave Louisville, KY 40206-3148 Add us to your address book Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list. [Email Marketing Powered by Mailchimp] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chagnon at pubcom.com Tue May 11 16:57:10 2021 From: chagnon at pubcom.com (chagnon@pubcom.com) Date: Tue May 11 16:58:12 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: References: <008c01d745e1$dbb158b0$93140a10$@pubcom.com> Message-ID: <009801d746c1$5be0ca90$13a25fb0$@pubcom.com> John wrote: /quote I know InDesign is a complex application designed for making pretty paper copy. /quote Oh lord, this sounds like we designers are children playing with finger paint and toys! Using this thread as a segue, I?m pleased to announce that through Open Access Technologies (OAT), I will give a free webinar on September 16, How to choose your tools: Word versus Adobe InDesign. Check this website for details and registration: https://www.openaccesstech.com/oat-webinar-series/ And to correct the above statement, here are the different types of media Adobe InDesign creates: 1. PDFs for print and press (made to the PDF standards for print) 2. PDFs for accessible tagged PDF (made to the PDF/UA standard for accessibility) 3. Accessible PDF forms (made to the PDF/UA standard for accessibility) 4. Accessible EPUBs (made to the EPUB standard for accessibility) 5. AEM mobile articles 6. XML for database connectivity 7. HTML 8. RTF 9. TXT 10. IDML, InDesign markup language 11. INTT, InDesign tagged text for database connectivity 12. Animated graphics for websites, digital media, and educational materials 13. Static graphics for websites, advertisements, info-graphics, promotional materials, logos, games, Sudoku and crossword puzzles 14. Whatever else that comes across your digital screen or through your mail slot. That?s a helluva lot more than just ?pretty paper copy!? All of these products, whether accessible or not, require substantial technical training that covers both how to use InDesign?s professional-grade tools as well as the technical requirements of each different technology. Today?s graphic designers must be a combination of designer, artist, typesetter, and digital engineer with expert knowledge of different standards and specifications for different technologies, topped off with a dash of psychology of human communication and perception. I think that?s much more than making pretty paper copy! And thanks to everyone for giving me such good content to mine for that September webinar . ? ? ? Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | Chagnon@PubCom.com ? ? ? PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting ? training ? development ? design ? sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes ? ? ? Latest blog-newsletter ? Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text From: athen-list On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2021 12:13 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Steve, I fear I am not communicating. I am not talking about people whose job is to create accessible materials. I am talking about people who know just enough about InDesign to make something. Basically I believe you are saying that such people should just forget about accessibility unless they are willing to become experts. I believe you now, but sorry, that is a real shame. I don?t understand why this app cannot know that something is a heading or are columns. If headings and columns were created as part of the normal creation process (and they are for many word processors), then one would not need to add that information. I do agree that alt text for figures needs to be added though. And in cases where the reading order is not obvious (and I suspect that it is more usually obvious than not), then some additional information is needed that would usually not be required for simpler applications. In any case, this conversation has probably already over-stayed its welcome on this list, so if anybody wants to continue this conversation please contact me off list. I will post no more on the topic. John From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 7:24 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? John, what you are asking for is unreasonable and currently no application can do it. An application cannot know if a particular piece of text is supposed to be a heading, let alone what heading level. If the layout is not a single column, an application cannot know what the expected reading order is. An application cannot know what the appropriate alternate text should be for an image because the same image may need different alternate text depending on the context in which it appears. Don?t expect artificial intelligence to help with this to any extent in the next decade or two. How many job roles can you think of that require no training at all? Probably very few, and certainly none that use complex technology. So why do you think that no training at all should be required by people who create documents? The tools are there to make documents accessible, and it only takes a day or so to learn to use them. If it?s someone?s job to create accessible documents, then they should get trained appropriately ? it?s not as if it takes long or costs much. Steve From: athen-list > On Behalf Of John Gardner Sent: 11 May 2021 00:04 To: chagnon@pubcom.com ; Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Hi, I do appreciate the comments and advice from all of you on InDesign. Susan Kilmer?s comments on origin/development explain why the problem exists. As a businessman I well understand about investment and economic incentive. However, as a blind person I am not so willing to forgive Adobe for what is such a difficult application to use accessibly. I know InDesign is a complex application designed for making pretty paper copy. But it will not sell today unless it can produce on-line content too, and if it had been created with accessibility in mind, a user would not need so much training on how to make things accessible. Depending on the user, she may need training on using InDesign, but then the accessibility should come moreor less automatically. It does not, and the fact that we understand why it is inaccessible is, in the end, just an excuse. John ue on? job of an older inaccessible app and there is no economic incentive for Adobe to do a re-design, then I can understand why we are stuck with it. And will be forever unless an economic justification comes over the horizon. From: athen-list > On Behalf Of chagnon@pubcom.com Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:17 PM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Susan K?s comments below about Adobe InDesign are correct. And I?ll add one more factor: Yes, you can make a nearly fully accessible PDF from an InDesign layout?If you have training in both accessibility concepts and how to use InDesign?s advanced tools. InDesign is not a word processing program like Word and Google Docs. It?s used to create documents that are much more complex than word processing, and it?s also a professional typesetting and graphics design layout tool. Given that, it?s not the type of tool you can just pick up and learn on your own. You must be trained in how to use InDesign. And if you want to make accessible PDFs from InDesign, you?ll need advanced training in that process. Just like when you want to make accessible PDFs from Word or PowerPoint, you?ll need advanced training. There are no ?easy buttons? for accessibility in any software program. The industry is decades away from having automatically building accessibility into the files we create. Places to learn accessibility with Adobe InDesign: * My classes, of courses and books! (shameless PR) www.pubcom.com/classes * My conference sessions at AHG and other industry conferences https://accessinghigherground.org/ * Creative Pro conference next week (I?m hosting one session there, and my colleagues are hosting others) https://creativeproweek.com/ There are extremely few online video training courses I recommend because nearly all of the ones I?ve reviewed have either inaccurate information, insufficient information, or really don?t understand what an accessible PDF requires. I have a lot of people in my classes who learned elsewhere, and then had to be retrained in the correct methods. RE: Adobe?s commitment put into perspective ? I?ve been connected to Adobe since John Warnock developed scalable PostScript fonts in 1985. Never a paid employee, but I am an unpaid beta tester, unpaid advisor, and unpaid ACP (Adobe Community Professional) in Adobe?s online forums. I?ve also been in similar positions with Microsoft and over 100 other software development companies. Although far from perfect, Adobe does have a solid commitment to accessibility. I just spent a couple of days in the ISO standards committees for PDFs with Adobe?s engineers and a few dozen other software engineers from around the world. You might not see that commitment, but I do, first hand and up close. But I sure wish they?d do even more, of course. Microsoft is also dedicated to accessibility, but I don?t see them in the ISO committees for PDF. However, we all see M S do a fair amount of advertising about their accessibility tools, like Immersive Reader. For some reason, Adobe?s marketing department doesn?t do a shred of advertising about their accessibility work, even though it?s there. And to be frank, no company that creates accessible PDFs could do that without Adobe?s foundation work on PDFs and accessibility. Adobe?s work comes first in creating the accessibility standards for PDF as well as the first programs, and then other companies follow Adobe?s lead. And take all the glory, too. In sum, it?s a mixed bag from all of our software manufacturers. ? ? ? Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | Chagnon@PubCom.com ? ? ? PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing consulting ? training ? development ? design ? sec. 508 services Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes ? ? ? Latest blog-newsletter ? Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Dan Comden Sent: Monday, May 10, 2021 2:12 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? Adobe has had over 20 years to figure out how to make the PDF process and products accessible. After all this time, it is difficult to come to any conclusion other than the company does not really care about accessibility. On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 7:22 AM Susan Kelmer > wrote: Okay, to be fair... InDesign is for laying out material. It is what Adobe Pagemaker used to be (for those of you who have been around a while). You make text boxes and add pictures and manipulate layout, and come up with a file that can be printed onto paper. Ala 1990. InDesign and Pagemaker were a replacement for the manual labor of physically creating the paper print using exacto knives and glue and light boards (for those that have been around even longer). In operation, it is not intended to be a program that provides all that accessibility for the outputted file. I do not fault Adobe for this. There is, as far as I know, NO program that will do this completely effectively. If you want to have an accessible output, you will have to do what you've always done - work it out in Adobe Acrobat Pro on the completed file. InDesign is not a text-based program, like Word is. Word is easy to output into a reasonably accessible PDF. InDesign was never intended for that purpose, and runs on an old Pagemaker backbone that would have to be written from the ground up. And the only way for that to be a priority for companies like Adobe is if there is money in it. No one is clamoring to Adobe to make InDesign produce accessible PDFs. Until they are, that won't change. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dandrews920 at comcast.net Tue May 11 17:19:03 2021 From: dandrews920 at comcast.net (David Andrews) Date: Tue May 11 17:19:19 2021 Subject: [Athen] Making accessible info with InDesign? In-Reply-To: <01e801d74697$1c569000$5503b000$@gmail.com> References: <01e801d74697$1c569000$5503b000$@gmail.com> Message-ID: It strikes me that everybody is a little bit right! I think that the graphical user interface has created the illusion that someone who doesn't know a lot can use a complex tool to get the results she wants. Many of these tools, Acrobat Pro, InDesign etc., are best used by people who use them regularly, not a casual user. In an ideal world, our tools would produce accessible web sites and documents automatically, but we are not there yet. Dave At 01:54 PM 5/11/2021, you wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/related; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01E9_01D7465C.6FF7B800" >Content-Language: en-us > >I have been following this thread and I need to finally add my two cents > >As a blind accessibility professional myself, I >have had very little success with any of the >Adobe products. Even their basic PDF reader is not great for accessibility. > >My suggestion to all accessibility professionals >who are producing accessible materials is that >you change your approach slightly. Instead of >fighting with proprietary software packages >which claim to support accessibility, I suggest >spending a few hours to learn Multi >Markdown. Multi Markdown is an extension of >Markdown, which is a basic (but powerful) >scripting language for producing accessible >electronic materials which can be converted to >almost any accessible format such as .doc, >.docx, pdf, html, rtf, daisy, and .brf formats >using one markdown (.md) original >file. Markdown is kind of the swiss army knife >of accessible file conversion. The syntax for >Multi Markdown is easy to learn and it can be >combined with MathML and LaTec for Math and Science content. > >And, a really big bonus is that Multi Markdown >is also fully accessible for blind and visually >impaired professionals to produce accessible >alternate formats- thus finally opening up this >profession as a viable option for people with visual disabilities. > >So, in conclusion, I suggest scrapping anything >made by Adobe and checking out Multi Markdown >for you?re your alternative formats production and conversion needs. > > > >Sincerely, > > > >Tristen Breitenfeldt From athenpresident at gmail.com Wed May 12 08:50:42 2021 From: athenpresident at gmail.com (ATHEN President) Date: Wed May 12 08:51:06 2021 Subject: [Athen] Fwd: Call for Proposals - ATHEN Virtual Conference 2021! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good morning, everyone! We have a few days left to accept proposals for the ATHEN Virtual Conference. Please submit your talk (formal or informal - it's up to you!) before Friday May 14th! Happy Wednesday! Dawn Hunziker ATHEN President ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: ATHEN President Date: Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 10:50 AM Subject: Call for Proposals - ATHEN Virtual Conference 2021! To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Hi all, We are in the process of planning our annual ATHEN Virtual Conference! This year, we thought we'd call for proposals from those who are working around the accessibility of Open Education Resources (OER). - Session talks will be 15 minutes with 5 minutes Q&A and we expect to have 3-4 sessions. - Sessions can be as informal/formal as the presenter wants. - Sessions will be announced after May 20th. - The date of the event will be June 16 starting at 2 PM Eastern. To submit your proposal about OER Accessibility, fill out our short Google form . If you have any questions, please let us know! ATHEN Executive Council Dawn Hunziker President, ATHEN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lnorwich at bu.edu Wed May 12 09:36:28 2021 From: lnorwich at bu.edu (Norwich, Lorraine S) Date: Wed May 12 09:36:39 2021 Subject: [Athen] Perusall Message-ID: Good Morning, I hope that everyone is doing well. I have looked into older posts and see that people have been looking at Perusall and had questions about it. We have started to look at it and I also have some questions. Please can you help me with the following: 1. Has anyone gone through the VPAT from Dec 23, 2020 and if so can you share anything with me from what you have found 2. They obtain revenue from selling books from the site. Does anyone know what format the books are in or any other info 3. Has anyone connected Perusall to the LMS on the campus they are at and how has that worked. I look forward to hearing from you. Best, Lorraineve Lorraine S. Norwich, BSME, MSIS Assistant Director of Disability & Access Services 25 Buick Street 3rd Floor, Boston MA 02215 lnorwich@bu.edu (email) 617-353-3658 (vox) 617-353-9646 (fax) www.bu.edu/disability (website) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patrick.sweeney at wisc.edu Wed May 12 08:21:55 2021 From: patrick.sweeney at wisc.edu (Patrick Sweeney) Date: Wed May 12 09:59:10 2021 Subject: [Athen] Extended Deadline - Job Posting - Communication Access Technical Consultant Message-ID: Good Morning, The McBurney Disability Resource Center at the University of Wisconsin ? Madison is seeking two dedicated professionals to join our Deaf and Hard of Hearing (DHH) Team for the next year. This is a great opportunity for recent graduates. Our mission to lead the campus forward in access guides our daily work in classroom accommodations as well as our big picture work to create an inclusive campus environment for all. We are looking for candidates who have a solid foundation in technology, and problem-solving, and who are undeterred by working in a fast-paced, team-based environment. The focus of these technology positions is planning, setting up, innovating, and troubleshooting the AV, instructional technology, applications, assistive technology, and computers used to deliver high quality communication access (via media captioning, live captioning, and interpreting) for in-person and remote instruction and campus events, while supporting (often in real-time) the students, captioning/interpreting service providers, instructors, and fellow team members. The team works to develop novel solutions to evolving technology, reduce barriers, promote access, and improve efficiency. This position interacts with instructional technology at all levels, including hardware/software, planning, installation, configuration, troubleshooting, integration, and training.?? Please share this job posting with your networks. Review the posting and apply online. (https://jobs.hr.wisc.edu/en-us/job/508919/communication-access-technical-consultant) We value the contributions of each person and respect the profound ways their identity, culture, background, experience, status, abilities, and opinion enrich the university community. We commit ourselves to the pursuit of excellence in teaching, research, outreach, and diversity as inextricably linked goals. Thank you, Patrick Patrick Sweeney (he/him/his) McBurney Disability Resource Center Division of Student Life, UW-Madison (voice) (608) 263-2741 [front desk] (text) (608) 225-7956 [front desk] www.mcburney.wisc.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bryantm at seminolestate.edu Wed May 12 11:16:12 2021 From: bryantm at seminolestate.edu (Marshall S. Bryant) Date: Wed May 12 11:16:22 2021 Subject: [Athen] Scientific Notebook vs Mathtype Message-ID: Hello all, We were looking to get the new scientific notebook, version 6, but found out it is not compatible with duxbury. We currently have mathtype, but was looking at alternatives, especially when using to convert to braille. We haven't needed braille in a while, but are getting prepared in case. What are your thoughts between the two, mathtype and scientific notebook? I find mathtype easy to use, but not sure if it is good for science equations or not. Thank you, Marshall Bryant Adaptive Technology Specialist Seminole State College of Florida Please Note: *** Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written communications to or from College employees regarding College business are public records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, this e-mail communication may be subject to public disclosure.*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From foreigntype at gmail.com Wed May 12 11:50:38 2021 From: foreigntype at gmail.com (foreigntype@gmail.com) Date: Wed May 12 11:51:33 2021 Subject: [Athen] Scientific Notebook vs Mathtype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Marshall, Scientific notebook works really well with math talk & Dragon NaturallySpeaking for creating accessible math for students with certain types of math disabilities. Scientific notebook can export to X HTML & HTML, which then leaves you with a multilayered process to get what is input through scientific notebook and into Duxbury to output into braille. Seems rather a rather archaic and awkward process. Using MathType is a more direct method of inputting math and outputting directly to Duxbury (or other accessible math formats). While it might be worthwhile upgrading to scientific notebook 6.0, I think it would be wise to take a look at what WIRIS (current owner of design science) has to offer as far as math & scientific notation software. Both their MathType & ChemType software will export into either MML or CHML which works nicely with Duxbury. Here's a link: https://www.wiris.com/en/ Take a look and give their products some consideration when you're looking to upgrade or simplify your alternative text production. These are both good options. Hope this helps. Wink Harner Wink Harner Accessibility Consultant/Alternative Text Production The Foreign Type Portland OR foreigntype@gmail.com 480-984-0034 This email was dictated using Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please forgive quirks, misrecognitions, or errata . Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 11:17 AM Marshall S. Bryant < bryantm@seminolestate.edu> wrote: > Hello all, > We were looking to get the new scientific notebook, version 6, but found > out it is not compatible with duxbury. We currently have mathtype, but was > looking at alternatives, especially when using to convert to braille. We > haven't needed braille in a while, but are getting prepared in case. What > are your thoughts between the two, mathtype and scientific notebook? I > find mathtype easy to use, but not sure if it is good for science equations > or not. > > Thank you, > > > Marshall Bryant > *Adaptive Technology Specialist* > *Seminole State College of Florida* > Please Note: *** Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most > written communications to or from College employees regarding College > business are public records, available to the public and media upon > request. Therefore, this e-mail communication may be subject to public > disclosure.*** > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From foreigntype at gmail.com Wed May 12 21:06:18 2021 From: foreigntype at gmail.com (foreigntype@gmail.com) Date: Wed May 12 21:06:51 2021 Subject: [Athen] RFP: AHG 2021: 1 day left to submit 1st-round proposals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Howard, Is there any chance I could get an extension on the RFP deadline until tomorrow? I had this pencilled in for submission today but had some workers over and the day got away from me. Let me know if this is possible. Thanks in advance. Wink On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:25 PM Howard Kramer wrote: > (please excuse the cross-posts) > > > > Proposal Deadline: May 12 > > *Accessing Higher Ground 2021* *is now accepting proposals for its > 24th Annual Conference in Denver, Colorado. * > *Covid-19 and the Conference* > > > > Since it is difficult to predict with certainty what the state of affairs > will be in November we encourage individuals to submit proposals even if > they are not sure yet if they will be able to travel. Submitters will not > be penalized for submitting a proposal and later declining to present at > the conference onsite. The option to present remotely will be determined as > we get closer to November. > > > > Speaker Proposal Form > > > > > *AHG focuses on:* > > ? accessible media > > ? Universal Design > > ? best practices for web & media development > > ? accessible curriculum > > ? alternate format > > ? teaching about accessibility and UD in university curriculum (and > elsewhere) > > ? evidence-based research > > ? other topics related to accessibility in higher education and > other environments > > * Submission Details* > > Use the online speaker proposal form > to submit your > proposal. Additional speaker information can be found on the AHG website > . > > > > *More Info* > > > > View last year?s sessions > to get a > sense of the typical agenda and range of topics. > > > > If you have any questions about proposal submission, > contact Howard Kramer at 720-351-8668 or at the email below. > > > > e-mail: ahg@ahead.org > > Conference URL: http://accessinghigherground.org/ > > -- > Regards, > Howard > > Howard Kramer > Conference Coordinator > Accessing Higher Ground > 303-492-8672 > cell: 720-351-8668 > > Sign up to access the recordings from the *2020 Accessing Higher > Ground Conference > * and > for AHG 2021 'Watch Parties > .' > > > Sign up to our mailing list to receive announcements > . > > > > Complete program information and registration is open for AHEAD's full > line-up of Spring 2021 webinars > . > > > > Not yet a member of AHEAD? *We welcome you to join AHEAD now. > * > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -- Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text Production Portland OR. foreigntype@gmail.com 480-984-0034 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkramer at ahead.org Wed May 12 21:20:17 2021 From: hkramer at ahead.org (Howard Kramer) Date: Wed May 12 21:21:21 2021 Subject: [Athen] RFP: AHG 2021: 1 day left to submit 1st-round proposals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, no problem. -Howard On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 10:07 PM foreigntype@gmail.com < foreigntype@gmail.com> wrote: > Howard, > > Is there any chance I could get an extension on the RFP deadline until > tomorrow? I had this pencilled in for submission today but had some workers > over and the day got away from me. > > Let me know if this is possible. Thanks in advance. > > Wink > > On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:25 PM Howard Kramer wrote: > >> (please excuse the cross-posts) >> >> >> >> Proposal Deadline: May 12 >> >> *Accessing Higher Ground 2021* *is now accepting proposals for its >> 24th Annual Conference in Denver, Colorado. * >> *Covid-19 and the Conference* >> >> >> >> Since it is difficult to predict with certainty what the state of affairs >> will be in November we encourage individuals to submit proposals even if >> they are not sure yet if they will be able to travel. Submitters will not >> be penalized for submitting a proposal and later declining to present at >> the conference onsite. The option to present remotely will be determined as >> we get closer to November. >> >> >> >> Speaker Proposal Form >> >> >> >> >> *AHG focuses on:* >> >> ? accessible media >> >> ? Universal Design >> >> ? best practices for web & media development >> >> ? accessible curriculum >> >> ? alternate format >> >> ? teaching about accessibility and UD in university curriculum >> (and elsewhere) >> >> ? evidence-based research >> >> ? other topics related to accessibility in higher education and >> other environments >> >> * Submission Details* >> >> Use the online speaker proposal form >> to submit your >> proposal. Additional speaker information can be found on the AHG website >> . >> >> >> >> *More Info* >> >> >> >> View last year?s sessions >> to get >> a sense of the typical agenda and range of topics. >> >> >> >> If you have any questions about proposal submission, >> contact Howard Kramer at 720-351-8668 or at the email below. >> >> >> >> e-mail: ahg@ahead.org >> >> Conference URL: http://accessinghigherground.org/ >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Howard >> >> Howard Kramer >> Conference Coordinator >> Accessing Higher Ground >> 303-492-8672 >> cell: 720-351-8668 >> >> Sign up to access the recordings from the *2020 Accessing Higher >> Ground Conference >> * and >> for AHG 2021 'Watch Parties >> .' >> >> >> Sign up to our mailing list to receive announcements >> . >> >> >> >> Complete program information and registration is open for AHEAD's full >> line-up of Spring 2021 webinars >> >> . >> >> >> >> Not yet a member of AHEAD? *We welcome you to join AHEAD now. >> * >> >> _______________________________________________ >> athen-list mailing list >> athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu >> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list >> > -- > Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text > Production Portland OR. foreigntype@gmail.com 480-984-0034 > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -- Regards, Howard Howard Kramer Conference Coordinator Accessing Higher Ground 303-492-8672 cell: 720-351-8668 Sign up to access the recordings from the *2020 Accessing Higher Ground Conference * and for AHG 2021 'Watch Parties .' Sign up to our mailing list to receive announcements . Complete program information and registration is open for AHEAD's full line-up of Spring 2021 webinars . Not yet a member of AHEAD? *We welcome you to join AHEAD now. * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From foreigntype at gmail.com Wed May 12 21:44:05 2021 From: foreigntype at gmail.com (foreigntype@gmail.com) Date: Wed May 12 21:44:25 2021 Subject: [Athen] RFP: AHG 2021: 1 day left to submit 1st-round proposals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you! On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 9:21 PM Howard Kramer wrote: > Yes, no problem. > > -Howard > > On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 10:07 PM foreigntype@gmail.com < > foreigntype@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Howard, >> >> Is there any chance I could get an extension on the RFP deadline until >> tomorrow? I had this pencilled in for submission today but had some workers >> over and the day got away from me. >> >> Let me know if this is possible. Thanks in advance. >> >> Wink >> >> On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:25 PM Howard Kramer wrote: >> >>> (please excuse the cross-posts) >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal Deadline: May 12 >>> >>> *Accessing Higher Ground 2021* *is now accepting proposals for its >>> 24th Annual Conference in Denver, Colorado. * >>> *Covid-19 and the Conference* >>> >>> >>> >>> Since it is difficult to predict with certainty what the state of >>> affairs will be in November we encourage individuals to submit proposals >>> even if they are not sure yet if they will be able to travel. Submitters >>> will not be penalized for submitting a proposal and later declining to >>> present at the conference onsite. The option to present remotely will be >>> determined as we get closer to November. >>> >>> >>> >>> Speaker Proposal Form >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *AHG focuses on:* >>> >>> ? accessible media >>> >>> ? Universal Design >>> >>> ? best practices for web & media development >>> >>> ? accessible curriculum >>> >>> ? alternate format >>> >>> ? teaching about accessibility and UD in university curriculum >>> (and elsewhere) >>> >>> ? evidence-based research >>> >>> ? other topics related to accessibility in higher education and >>> other environments >>> >>> * Submission Details* >>> >>> Use the online speaker proposal form >>> to submit your >>> proposal. Additional speaker information can be found on the AHG website >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> *More Info* >>> >>> >>> >>> View last year?s sessions >>> to get >>> a sense of the typical agenda and range of topics. >>> >>> >>> >>> If you have any questions about proposal submission, >>> contact Howard Kramer at 720-351-8668 or at the email below. >>> >>> >>> >>> e-mail: ahg@ahead.org >>> >>> Conference URL: http://accessinghigherground.org/ >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Howard >>> >>> Howard Kramer >>> Conference Coordinator >>> Accessing Higher Ground >>> 303-492-8672 >>> cell: 720-351-8668 >>> >>> Sign up to access the recordings from the *2020 Accessing Higher >>> Ground Conference >>> * and >>> for AHG 2021 'Watch Parties >>> .' >>> >>> >>> Sign up to our mailing list to receive announcements >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> Complete program information and registration is open for AHEAD's full >>> line-up of Spring 2021 webinars >>> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> Not yet a member of AHEAD? *We welcome you to join AHEAD now. >>> * >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> athen-list mailing list >>> athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu >>> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list >>> >> -- >> Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text >> Production Portland OR. foreigntype@gmail.com 480-984-0034 >> _______________________________________________ >> athen-list mailing list >> athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu >> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list >> > > > -- > Regards, > Howard > > Howard Kramer > Conference Coordinator > Accessing Higher Ground > 303-492-8672 > cell: 720-351-8668 > > Sign up to access the recordings from the *2020 Accessing Higher > Ground Conference > * and > for AHG 2021 'Watch Parties > .' > > > Sign up to our mailing list to receive announcements > . > > > > Complete program information and registration is open for AHEAD's full > line-up of Spring 2021 webinars > . > > > > Not yet a member of AHEAD? *We welcome you to join AHEAD now. > * > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -- Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text Production Portland OR. foreigntype@gmail.com 480-984-0034 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pj.er.nagy1 at verizon.net Thu May 13 04:06:40 2021 From: pj.er.nagy1 at verizon.net (Paul Nagy) Date: Thu May 13 04:06:53 2021 Subject: [Athen] Scientific Notebook vs Mathtype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00cd01d747e8$0d733dc0$2859b940$@verizon.net> Hi Marshall, MathType 7 has an add-in to Word called ChemType, which appears to make writing chemical equations easier. MathType itself is somewhat accessible, in that there are many built-in keyboard shortcuts, such as Ctrl-H and Ctrl-L for superscripts and subscripts. The user can also define his own shortcuts. MathType will easily convert math expressions to MathML. I am looking forward to using it to convert chemical equations into MathML, for use in some STEM lessons I am currently writing. I have not used Scientific Notebook. I hope this helps. Paul Nagy Technology Tutor for the Blind (804-230-4398) From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Marshall S. Bryant Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 2:16 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] Scientific Notebook vs Mathtype Hello all, We were looking to get the new scientific notebook, version 6, but found out it is not compatible with duxbury. We currently have mathtype, but was looking at alternatives, especially when using to convert to braille. We haven't needed braille in a while, but are getting prepared in case. What are your thoughts between the two, mathtype and scientific notebook? I find mathtype easy to use, but not sure if it is good for science equations or not. Thank you, Marshall Bryant Adaptive Technology Specialist Seminole State College of Florida Please Note: *** Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written communications to or from College employees regarding College business are public records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, this e-mail communication may be subject to public disclosure.*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skeegan at stanford.edu Thu May 13 10:59:31 2021 From: skeegan at stanford.edu (Sean J Keegan) Date: Thu May 13 11:00:03 2021 Subject: [Athen] Delay in Zoom human generated caption file? Message-ID: Hello all, Has anyone experienced significant time delays with Zoom and live (human generated) captions when exporting that caption file? I am hearing reports of a delay of approximately 30-60 seconds between what happens on-screen vs. the human generated caption file after exporting that caption file post-event. During the live event, all the timing is fine. It is after the event has been recorded and when exporting all the files to move from the Zoom cloud platform to another media system (YouTube, Panopto, etc.). There is no constant delay (unfortunately) and instead the delay can be anywhere from 30-60 seconds. It makes the human generated caption file rather useless without a significant amount of post-production work. Thanks in advance, Sean Sean Keegan Director, Office of Digital Accessibility Stanford | University IT 530-564?2385 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Robin.Eckelberry at ppcc.edu Thu May 13 11:34:49 2021 From: Robin.Eckelberry at ppcc.edu (Eckelberry, Robin) Date: Thu May 13 11:35:17 2021 Subject: [Athen] Spelling accommodations or AT Message-ID: <6b822fb788e64f769c65df45b66733ff@ppcc.edu> Hi ATHEN, What kind of accommodations or AT have you put in place for spelling? Here are the details of the scenario: Students travel through stations in a cadaver lab, and recall and spell anatomical parts correctly * These classes have correct spelling of medical words as a course competency; therefore, an accommodation cannot be to not penalize for spelling errors. * Access to spellcheck on a tablet would be challenging, as we are unsure how to block access to other apps or other sources of information on that tablet * Instructors are concerned that handheld spellcheck devices such as the Spellex PocketMed Spell Checker give unfair advantages when recall is required, as a student can type in the first few letters of a word and have the correctly spelled word or list of words come up on the screen * Dictating their answers through something like Dragon Medical would likely not work when other students are present in the lab and can overhear * Due to time, staffing, and space limitations, students requiring spelling accommodations cannot test alone separately from the rest of the students Any help you can provide will be much appreciated! Thanks, Robin [Pikes Peak Community College Logo, links to website] Robin Eckelberry MS Access Specialist Accessibility Services office 719-502-3325 fax 719-502-3334 main office 719-502-3333 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 4800 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From kaela.parks at pcc.edu Thu May 13 12:42:12 2021 From: kaela.parks at pcc.edu (Kaela Parks) Date: Thu May 13 12:43:15 2021 Subject: [Athen] Spelling accommodations or AT In-Reply-To: <6b822fb788e64f769c65df45b66733ff@ppcc.edu> References: <6b822fb788e64f769c65df45b66733ff@ppcc.edu> Message-ID: One strategy to consider is breaking the activities of recall and spelling into discrete phases of the assessment process. For example, students could do the initial activity of moving from station to station without the use of voice recognition or spelling aids - just focusing on the recall, and writing down the names of the anatomical parts with an understanding that they won't be penalized for misspellings yet. Then, afterward - they get an additional window of time to use dictation or spelling aids to generate the correctly spelled version of the word they already recorded. This could help to ensure the correct answers aren't being generated via technology, just the spelling is being corrected via technology. -- Kaela Parks (she/her/hers) *Book a meeting with me * SY CC 260, Ph. 971.722.4868 Portland Community College Director, Disability Services www.pcc.edu/resources/disability Visit our Virtual Lobby Monday - Thursday 10am to 2pm On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 11:36 AM Eckelberry, Robin < Robin.Eckelberry@ppcc.edu> wrote: > Hi ATHEN, > > > > What kind of accommodations or AT have you put in place for spelling? Here > are the details of the scenario: > > > > Students travel through stations in a cadaver lab, and recall and spell > anatomical parts correctly > > - These classes have correct spelling of medical words as a course > competency; therefore, an accommodation cannot be to not penalize for > spelling errors. > - Access to spellcheck on a tablet would be challenging, as we are > unsure how to block access to other apps or other sources of information on > that tablet > - Instructors are concerned that handheld spellcheck devices such as > the Spellex PocketMed Spell Checker give unfair advantages when recall is > required, as a student can type in the first few letters of a word and have > the correctly spelled word or list of words come up on the screen > - Dictating their answers through something like Dragon Medical would > likely not work when other students are present in the lab and can overhear > - Due to time, staffing, and space limitations, students requiring > spelling accommodations cannot test alone separately from the rest of the > students > > > > Any help you can provide will be much appreciated! > > > > Thanks, > > Robin > > > > > > [image: Pikes Peak Community College Logo, links to website] > > > *Robin Eckelberry* *MS* > *Access Specialist* > Accessibility Services > > *office *719-502-3325 > *fax *719-502-3334 > *main office *719-502-3333 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 4800 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hunziker at arizona.edu Thu May 13 13:23:19 2021 From: hunziker at arizona.edu (Hunziker, Dawn A - (hunziker)) Date: Thu May 13 13:23:37 2021 Subject: [Athen] Delay in Zoom human generated caption file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Sean, I haven't seen it, yet, but will now go to look. I know we often see issues with alignment when someone edits a video and doesn't realize it affects the timing - could that be a cause? Dawn Dawn Hunziker Assistant Director, Digital and Physical Access | Disability Resources The University of Arizona | hunziker@arizona.edu drc.arizona.edu | itaccessibility.arizona.edu 520-626-9409 ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of Sean J Keegan Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2021 10:59 AM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: [EXT][Athen] Delay in Zoom human generated caption file? External Email Hello all, Has anyone experienced significant time delays with Zoom and live (human generated) captions when exporting that caption file? I am hearing reports of a delay of approximately 30-60 seconds between what happens on-screen vs. the human generated caption file after exporting that caption file post-event. During the live event, all the timing is fine. It is after the event has been recorded and when exporting all the files to move from the Zoom cloud platform to another media system (YouTube, Panopto, etc.). There is no constant delay (unfortunately) and instead the delay can be anywhere from 30-60 seconds. It makes the human generated caption file rather useless without a significant amount of post-production work. Thanks in advance, Sean Sean Keegan Director, Office of Digital Accessibility Stanford | University IT 530-564?2385 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpolizzotto at berkeley.edu Thu May 13 16:59:29 2021 From: jpolizzotto at berkeley.edu (Joseph Polizzotto MA) Date: Thu May 13 17:00:03 2021 Subject: [Athen] Delay in Zoom human generated caption file? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Sean: > There is no constant delay Do you mean that the discrepancy is not constant for the same video or that it is not constant when you are comparing the discrepancy in one video to another video? If it is the former, then it is possible - once the differential is known for the Zoom session in question - to convert all the time stamps in that file to be that many seconds less or more. If it is the latter, oh boy. Joseph On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 1:24 PM Hunziker, Dawn A - (hunziker) < hunziker@arizona.edu> wrote: > Hey Sean, > > I haven't seen it, yet, but will now go to look. > > I know we often see issues with alignment when someone edits a video and > doesn't realize it affects the timing - could that be a cause? > > Dawn > > Dawn Hunziker > > Assistant Director, Digital and Physical Access | Disability Resources > > The University of Arizona | hunziker@arizona.edu > drc.arizona.edu | itaccessibility.arizona.edu > > 520-626-9409 > > ------------------------------ > *From:* athen-list on > behalf of Sean J Keegan > *Sent:* Thursday, May 13, 2021 10:59 AM > *To:* athen-list@u.washington.edu > *Subject:* [EXT][Athen] Delay in Zoom human generated caption file? > > > *External Email* > Hello all, > > Has anyone experienced significant time delays with Zoom and live (human > generated) captions when exporting that caption file? > > I am hearing reports of a delay of approximately 30-60 seconds between > what happens on-screen vs. the human generated caption file after exporting > that caption file post-event. > > During the live event, all the timing is fine. It is after the event has > been recorded and when exporting all the files to move from the Zoom cloud > platform to another media system (YouTube, Panopto, etc.). There is no > constant delay (unfortunately) and instead the delay can be anywhere from > 30-60 seconds. It makes the human generated caption file rather useless > without a significant amount of post-production work. > > > Thanks in advance, > Sean > > > Sean Keegan > > Director, Office of Digital Accessibility > > Stanford | University IT > > 530-564?2385 > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -- *Alternate Media Supervisor* Disabled Students' Program University of California, Berkeley https://dsp.berkeley.edu/ (510) 642-0329 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vwalton at columbiabasin.edu Tue May 18 11:47:38 2021 From: vwalton at columbiabasin.edu (Walton, Vicki) Date: Tue May 18 11:48:04 2021 Subject: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker Message-ID: I am interested in knowing that others think or have used as an appropriate accommodation for a spell checker? Take care. [Visit the CBC Website] Vicki Walton Disability Support Services/Assistive Technology 509.542.4428, or ext. 2428 2600 N. 20th Ave., Pasco, WA 99301 Pronouns: they/them [Follow CBC on Facebook] [Follow CBC on Instagram] [Follow CBC on Twitter] [Follow CBC on YouTube] [Follow CBC on Snapchat] [We All Soar Together] [cid:image008.jpg@01D5E69C.17A2CE90] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 13559 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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[Visit the CBC Website] Vicki Walton Disability Support Services/Assistive Technology 509.542.4428, or ext. 2428 2600 N. 20th Ave., Pasco, WA 99301 Pronouns: they/them [Follow CBC on Facebook] [Follow CBC on Instagram] [Follow CBC on Twitter] [Follow CBC on YouTube] [Follow CBC on Snapchat] [We All Soar Together] [cid:image008.jpg@01D5E69C.17A2CE90] From: athen-list On Behalf Of Walton, Vicki Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 11:48 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker I am interested in knowing that others think or have used as an appropriate accommodation for a spell checker? Take care. [Visit the CBC Website] Vicki Walton Disability Support Services/Assistive Technology 509.542.4428, or ext. 2428 2600 N. 20th Ave., Pasco, WA 99301 Pronouns: they/them [Follow CBC on Facebook] [Follow CBC on Instagram] [Follow CBC on Twitter] [Follow CBC on YouTube] [Follow CBC on Snapchat] [We All Soar Together] [cid:image008.jpg@01D5E69C.17A2CE90] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 13559 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 646 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 1013 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image009.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2632 bytes Desc: image009.jpg URL: From Catherine.Stager at frontrange.edu Wed May 19 10:01:40 2021 From: Catherine.Stager at frontrange.edu (Stager, Catherine) Date: Wed May 19 10:01:58 2021 Subject: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8be0fb14d7b34292841012297f766e87@frontrange.edu> Not sure if this is too obvious, but there are the standalone devices such as the Franklin Speller and the Seiko Roget's Thesaurus. Best regards, Cath Catherine M. Stager Assistive Technology Specialist Catherine.Stager@frontrange.edu (720) 336-1245 [Front Range Community College - Boulder County Campus] Disability Support Services - Assistive Technology Check out our Getting Started Guides for At Home Support! https://bit.ly/GettingStartedGuidesOverview https://bit.ly/GettingStartedAtHome From: athen-list On Behalf Of Walton, Vicki Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 2:55 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Colorado Community College System. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please contact your college IT Help Desk if you have any questions. Let me be more clear. It can't be use on a cell phone or internet use. A stand-alone unit. Take care. [Visit the CBC Website] Vicki Walton Disability Support Services/Assistive Technology 509.542.4428, or ext. 2428 2600 N. 20th Ave., Pasco, WA 99301 Pronouns: they/them [Follow CBC on Facebook] [Follow CBC on Instagram] [Follow CBC on Twitter] [Follow CBC on YouTube] [Follow CBC on Snapchat] [We All Soar Together] [cid:image008.jpg@01D5E69C.17A2CE90] From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Walton, Vicki Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 11:48 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker I am interested in knowing that others think or have used as an appropriate accommodation for a spell checker? Take care. [Visit the CBC Website] Vicki Walton Disability Support Services/Assistive Technology 509.542.4428, or ext. 2428 2600 N. 20th Ave., Pasco, WA 99301 Pronouns: they/them [Follow CBC on Facebook] [Follow CBC on Instagram] [Follow CBC on Twitter] [Follow CBC on YouTube] [Follow CBC on Snapchat] [We All Soar Together] [cid:image008.jpg@01D5E69C.17A2CE90] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image008.png Type: image/png Size: 18481 bytes Desc: image008.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image009.png Type: image/png Size: 13559 bytes Desc: image009.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image011.png Type: image/png Size: 646 bytes Desc: image011.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image017.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2632 bytes Desc: image017.jpg URL: From lgreco at berkeley.edu Wed May 19 16:49:43 2021 From: lgreco at berkeley.edu (Lucy GRECO) Date: Wed May 19 16:50:31 2021 Subject: [Athen] VitalSource Bookshelf Message-ID: hello: could someone let me know if VitalSource Bookshelf has changed in the past year or two? Do they still require disabled students to use the accessible version of the platform and only provide the accessible version on that separate portal. also if any of you have any information about access over all i would appreciate it lucy Lucia Greco Web Accessibility Evangelist IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration University of California, Berkeley (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco http://webaccess.berkeley.edu Follow me on twitter @accessaces -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From justinr at disability.tamu.edu Wed May 19 17:00:21 2021 From: justinr at disability.tamu.edu (Romack, Justin) Date: Wed May 19 17:00:49 2021 Subject: [Athen] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management Message-ID: <9d24c928e0ae4ea59be160b95276fb8e@disability.tamu.edu> Howdy y'all! Our office will deploy AIM for case and database management later this summer - and we're looking at ways to use the AT Profiles feature. I'm curious if any assistive technology coordinators or specialists with disability resources offices here are using this feature - and any advice you'd offer for how you've used it in gathering and storing information about the students you've worked with? Always grateful for the wisdom in this group! Thanks, J - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Justin Romack | Assistive Technology Coordinator Disability Resources | Texas A&M University 1224 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-1224 ph: 979.845.1637 | justinr@disability.tamu.edu | disability.tamu.edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DIVISION OF STUDENT AFFAIRS | One Division. One Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hunziker at arizona.edu Wed May 19 18:05:14 2021 From: hunziker at arizona.edu (Hunziker, Dawn A - (hunziker)) Date: Wed May 19 18:05:42 2021 Subject: [Athen] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management In-Reply-To: <9d24c928e0ae4ea59be160b95276fb8e@disability.tamu.edu> References: <9d24c928e0ae4ea59be160b95276fb8e@disability.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Hi Justin, We've implemented this option in AIM. We're using it to gather information about technology a blind/low vision student is using. For example, JAWS or Screen Magnification with some JAWS. We're also using this feature to capture what we learn about the student's technology environment, so we have enough to help troubleshoot if someone says they are having computer/access issues. We started with blind/low vision first and hope to expand to dictation and text-to-speech users soon. I believe most of the information is entered by someone on our Academic Accommodations team (Alternate Formats, Testing, etc.) and some by our Access Consultants. If you have any additional questions about our use of AIM, please don't hesitate to reach out and I'll get you connected with our staff. Questions we ask: 1. Primary Computer Type: ? PC ? Mac ? Chromebook ? Other (Specify Below) ? Additional Note or Comment (has a text field for notes) 2. Primary Screen Reader: ? JAWS ? NVDA ? VoiceOver ? Other (Specify Below) ? None ? Additional Note or Comment 3. Primary Screen Magnification: ? ZoomText ? Fusion ? Other (Specify Below) ? None ? Additional Note or Comment 4. Braille user? ? Yes ? No ? Additional Note or Comment Dawn Dawn Hunziker Assistant Director, Digital and Physical Access | Disability Resources The University of Arizona | hunziker@arizona.edu drc.arizona.edu | itaccessibility.arizona.edu 520-626-9409 ________________________________ From: athen-list on behalf of Romack, Justin Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 5:00 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [EXT][Athen] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management External Email Howdy y?all! Our office will deploy AIM for case and database management later this summer ? and we?re looking at ways to use the AT Profiles feature. I?m curious if any assistive technology coordinators or specialists with disability resources offices here are using this feature ? and any advice you?d offer for how you?ve used it in gathering and storing information about the students you?ve worked with? Always grateful for the wisdom in this group! Thanks, J - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Justin Romack | Assistive Technology Coordinator Disability Resources | Texas A&M University 1224 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-1224 ph: 979.845.1637 | justinr@disability.tamu.edu | disability.tamu.edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DIVISION OF STUDENT AFFAIRS | One Division. One Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kerscher at montana.com Wed May 19 18:38:37 2021 From: kerscher at montana.com (kerscher@montana.com) Date: Wed May 19 18:39:13 2021 Subject: [Athen] VitalSource Bookshelf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d74d18$deed3380$9cc79a80$@montana.com> Hello, VitalSource has indeed changed over the past years. There is no requirement to use a different website for accessibility. It is evaluated at epubtest.org and the summary is reported at the Roundup of reading systems at: https://inclusivepublishing.org/rs-accessibility/ The online version is very accessible and they have new Jaws scripts supporting the Windows App. They are also reporting accessibility metadata before one purchases or a professor selects a title for their course. We want to see the accessibility metadata in a user friendly presentation available everywhere, and VitalSource is doing this now. Hope others to follow their lead. Best George From: athen-list On Behalf Of Lucy GRECO Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 5:50 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [Athen] VitalSource Bookshelf hello: could someone let me know if VitalSource Bookshelf has changed in the past year or two? Do they still require disabled students to use the accessible version of the platform and only provide the accessible version on that separate portal. also if any of you have any information about access over all i would appreciate it lucy Lucia Greco Web Accessibility Evangelist IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration University of California, Berkeley (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco http://webaccess.berkeley.edu Follow me on twitter @accessaces -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rbeach at KCKCC.EDU Thu May 20 05:38:55 2021 From: rbeach at KCKCC.EDU (Robert Beach) Date: Thu May 20 05:39:28 2021 Subject: [Athen] [EXT] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management In-Reply-To: <9d24c928e0ae4ea59be160b95276fb8e@disability.tamu.edu> References: <9d24c928e0ae4ea59be160b95276fb8e@disability.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Please respond to the list as we are looking at this feature as well. Robert Lee Beach Assistive Technology Specialist - Student Accessibility & Support Services Kansas City Kansas Community College 7250 State Ave. - Suite # 3384 - Kansas City, KS 66112 O 913-288-7671 | F 913-288-7678 rbeach@kckcc.edu From: athen-list On Behalf Of Romack, Justin Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 7:00 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [EXT][Athen] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management CAUTION: This email originated outside KCKCC. Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the content is safe. Please forward all suspicious emails to support@kckcc.edu. Howdy y'all! Our office will deploy AIM for case and database management later this summer - and we're looking at ways to use the AT Profiles feature. I'm curious if any assistive technology coordinators or specialists with disability resources offices here are using this feature - and any advice you'd offer for how you've used it in gathering and storing information about the students you've worked with? Always grateful for the wisdom in this group! Thanks, J - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Justin Romack | Assistive Technology Coordinator Disability Resources | Texas A&M University 1224 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-1224 ph: 979.845.1637 | justinr@disability.tamu.edu | disability.tamu.edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DIVISION OF STUDENT AFFAIRS | One Division. One Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bryantm at seminolestate.edu Thu May 20 05:52:52 2021 From: bryantm at seminolestate.edu (Marshall S. Bryant) Date: Thu May 20 05:53:15 2021 Subject: [Athen] embosser maintenance agreements Message-ID: Hello, Just trying to gather thoughts from others about maintenance agreement experiences on Viewplus Max Embossers. We have one, we may possibly be using it very often come Fall semester, and I've looked at quotes for maintenance agreements for it. Quotes start around $600 plus per year. I am sure if the embosser breaks down, it is worth the maintenance agreement, but what are the experiences of the durability of these embossers? It would be really nice to use funds for other needed items, but at the same time I am sure the cost of repairs could be high if something were to happen. Just wanting to see what others think about the maintenance agreements... Thanks, Marshall Bryant Adaptive Technology Specialist Seminole State College of Florida Please Note: *** Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written communications to or from College employees regarding College business are public records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, this e-mail communication may be subject to public disclosure.*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joe at a11yeval.com Thu May 20 06:33:33 2021 From: joe at a11yeval.com (Joe Humbert (A11y)) Date: Thu May 20 06:33:58 2021 Subject: [Athen] Global Accessibility Awareness Day 2021 Message-ID: <0a6301d74d7c$bc3c9790$34b5c6b0$@a11yeval.com> Hi All, Just in case: https://globalaccessibilityawarenessday.org/events/ Thankx, Joe Humbert International Association of Accessibility Professionals Certified Professional in Web Accessibility (CPWA) Access Technology Higher Education Network (ATHEN) Associate Member Accessibility Champion Android & iOS Accessibility Novice Email: joe@a11yeval.com Twitter: @joehumbert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu Thu May 20 06:45:10 2021 From: Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu (Susan Kelmer) Date: Thu May 20 06:45:36 2021 Subject: [Athen] embosser maintenance agreements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I maintain SMAs (Service Maintenance Agreements) on both of my embossers, one of which is a ViewPlus. Definitely worth the peace of mind, and covered repairs that would have been costly. While these machines run well and last a long time (our Viewplus is well over 10 years old) they do break down, and need repair. It is easier to keep the SMA intact than it is to fight for repair costs through our administration without it. Susan Kelmer Alternate Format Production Program Manager Disability Services Division of Student Affairs T 303 735 4836 www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices [cid:image001.png@01D598AC.79FC1C60] Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you've received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Marshall S. Bryant Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2021 6:53 AM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: [Athen] embosser maintenance agreements Hello, Just trying to gather thoughts from others about maintenance agreement experiences on Viewplus Max Embossers. We have one, we may possibly be using it very often come Fall semester, and I've looked at quotes for maintenance agreements for it. Quotes start around $600 plus per year. I am sure if the embosser breaks down, it is worth the maintenance agreement, but what are the experiences of the durability of these embossers? It would be really nice to use funds for other needed items, but at the same time I am sure the cost of repairs could be high if something were to happen. Just wanting to see what others think about the maintenance agreements... Thanks, Marshall Bryant Adaptive Technology Specialist Seminole State College of Florida Please Note: *** Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written communications to or from College employees regarding College business are public records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, this e-mail communication may be subject to public disclosure.*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 8916 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From laj at msu.edu Thu May 20 07:27:01 2021 From: laj at msu.edu (Johnson, Leslie) Date: Thu May 20 07:27:22 2021 Subject: [Athen] Tactile Graphics Machine Feedback Needed Message-ID: <511F6A9E-7B07-4C10-B9D1-F84A87440137@msu.edu> Hello, I am looking for any feedback on tactile graphic machines. We are looking to purchase either the Picture in a Flash- PIAF or the Thermoform Swell Form Graphics Machine. They seem to be very similar but I would love user feedback and anything good or bad about them. Also if you have a different suggestion for a tactile graphics machine that would be welcome too! Thanks! Leslie Johnson Assistant Director, Assistive Technology Michigan State University Resource Center for Persons with Disabilities 120 Bessey Hall 434 Farm Lane East Lansing, MI 48824 P: 517.884.1911 | F: 517.432.3191 laj@msu.edu www.rcpd.msu.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vwalton at columbiabasin.edu Thu May 20 08:18:13 2021 From: vwalton at columbiabasin.edu (Walton, Vicki) Date: Thu May 20 08:18:44 2021 Subject: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker In-Reply-To: <8be0fb14d7b34292841012297f766e87@frontrange.edu> References: <8be0fb14d7b34292841012297f766e87@frontrange.edu> Message-ID: We found what we needed: Spellex PocketMed Pro Handheld Medical Dictionary https://www.spellex.com/estore/handheld-medical-spell-check/ Take care. [Visit the CBC Website] Vicki Walton Disability Support Services/Assistive Technology 509.542.4428, or ext. 2428 2600 N. 20th Ave., Pasco, WA 99301 they/them [Follow CBC on Facebook] [Follow CBC on Instagram] [Follow CBC on Twitter] [Follow CBC on YouTube] [Follow CBC on Snapchat] [We All Soar Together] [cid:image008.jpg@01D5E69C.17A2CE90] From: athen-list On Behalf Of Stager, Catherine Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 10:02 AM To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' Subject: Re: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker CAUTION: This email originated outside Columbia Basin College. Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the content is safe. Questions? Call the IS Helpdesk at x2353 or email ishelp@columbiabasin.edu. Not sure if this is too obvious, but there are the standalone devices such as the Franklin Speller and the Seiko Roget's Thesaurus. Best regards, Cath Catherine M. Stager Assistive Technology Specialist Catherine.Stager@frontrange.edu (720) 336-1245 [Front Range Community College - Boulder County Campus] Disability Support Services - Assistive Technology Check out our Getting Started Guides for At Home Support! https://bit.ly/GettingStartedGuidesOverview https://bit.ly/GettingStartedAtHome From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Walton, Vicki Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 2:55 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Colorado Community College System. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please contact your college IT Help Desk if you have any questions. Let me be more clear. It can't be use on a cell phone or internet use. A stand-alone unit. Take care. [Visit the CBC Website] Vicki Walton Disability Support Services/Assistive Technology 509.542.4428, or ext. 2428 2600 N. 20th Ave., Pasco, WA 99301 Pronouns: they/them [Follow CBC on Facebook] [Follow CBC on Instagram] [Follow CBC on Twitter] [Follow CBC on YouTube] [Follow CBC on Snapchat] [We All Soar Together] [cid:image008.jpg@01D5E69C.17A2CE90] From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Walton, Vicki Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 11:48 AM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [Athen] What constitutes a spell checker I am interested in knowing that others think or have used as an appropriate accommodation for a spell checker? Take care. [Visit the CBC Website] Vicki Walton Disability Support Services/Assistive Technology 509.542.4428, or ext. 2428 2600 N. 20th Ave., Pasco, WA 99301 Pronouns: they/them [Follow CBC on Facebook] [Follow CBC on Instagram] [Follow CBC on Twitter] [Follow CBC on YouTube] [Follow CBC on Snapchat] [We All Soar Together] [cid:image008.jpg@01D5E69C.17A2CE90] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 13559 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 646 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 1013 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2632 bytes Desc: image008.jpg URL: From ecmatson at uidaho.edu Thu May 20 08:31:48 2021 From: ecmatson at uidaho.edu (Matson, Eric (ecmatson@uidaho.edu)) Date: Thu May 20 08:32:04 2021 Subject: [Athen] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management In-Reply-To: References: <9d24c928e0ae4ea59be160b95276fb8e@disability.tamu.edu> Message-ID: You can also pull an aggregate report from the AT Profile. My questions are mostly the same as Dawn's, and I use it usually just to remind myself before student meetings what operating system / screen reader / tts they use. The report data has been nice for writing my year end report. To get there it's: Website Controls > Manage AT Profile Templates > Click View for the template you want a report on > view or search > Report in Detail. Eric Matson | Assistive Technology Specialist Center for Disability Access and Resources Division of Student Affairs The University of Idaho From: athen-list On Behalf Of Hunziker, Dawn A - (hunziker) Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 6:05 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management Hi Justin, We've implemented this option in AIM. We're using it to gather information about technology a blind/low vision student is using. For example, JAWS or Screen Magnification with some JAWS. We're also using this feature to capture what we learn about the student's technology environment, so we have enough to help troubleshoot if someone says they are having computer/access issues. We started with blind/low vision first and hope to expand to dictation and text-to-speech users soon. I believe most of the information is entered by someone on our Academic Accommodations team (Alternate Formats, Testing, etc.) and some by our Access Consultants. If you have any additional questions about our use of AIM, please don't hesitate to reach out and I'll get you connected with our staff. Questions we ask: 1. Primary Computer Type: * PC * Mac * Chromebook * Other (Specify Below) * Additional Note or Comment (has a text field for notes) 2. Primary Screen Reader: * JAWS * NVDA * VoiceOver * Other (Specify Below) * None * Additional Note or Comment 3. Primary Screen Magnification: * ZoomText * Fusion * Other (Specify Below) * None * Additional Note or Comment 4. Braille user? * Yes * No * Additional Note or Comment Dawn Dawn Hunziker Assistant Director, Digital and Physical Access | Disability Resources The University of Arizona | hunziker@arizona.edu drc.arizona.edu | itaccessibility.arizona.edu 520-626-9409 ________________________________ From: athen-list > on behalf of Romack, Justin > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 5:00 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [EXT][Athen] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management External Email Howdy y'all! Our office will deploy AIM for case and database management later this summer - and we're looking at ways to use the AT Profiles feature. I'm curious if any assistive technology coordinators or specialists with disability resources offices here are using this feature - and any advice you'd offer for how you've used it in gathering and storing information about the students you've worked with? Always grateful for the wisdom in this group! Thanks, J - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Justin Romack | Assistive Technology Coordinator Disability Resources | Texas A&M University 1224 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-1224 ph: 979.845.1637 | justinr@disability.tamu.edu | disability.tamu.edu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - DIVISION OF STUDENT AFFAIRS | One Division. One Mission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaela.parks at pcc.edu Thu May 20 09:00:22 2021 From: kaela.parks at pcc.edu (Kaela Parks) Date: Thu May 20 09:01:11 2021 Subject: [Athen] AT Profiles feature in AIM database management In-Reply-To: <9d24c928e0ae4ea59be160b95276fb8e@disability.tamu.edu> References: <9d24c928e0ae4ea59be160b95276fb8e@disability.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Here are the questions we use in our AT Profile at Portland Community College: 1. Technology Comfort Level 2. Off-campus Internet Access 3. Personal Devices 4. Operating System 5. Alt Format Preferences 6. Previous AT Experience 7. Educational Barriers/AT Goals 8. Other Notes Each of the questions has an open notes field as well. -- Kaela Parks (she/her/hers) *Book a meeting with me * SY CC 260, Ph. 971.722.4868 Portland Community College Director, Disability Services www.pcc.edu/resources/disability Visit our Virtual Lobby Monday - Thursday 10am to 2pm On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 5:04 PM Romack, Justin wrote: > Howdy y?all! > > > > Our office will deploy AIM for case and database management later this > summer ? and we?re looking at ways to use the AT Profiles feature. > > > > I?m curious if any assistive technology coordinators or specialists with > disability resources offices here are using this feature ? and any advice > you?d offer for how you?ve used it in gathering and storing information > about the students you?ve worked with? > > > Always grateful for the wisdom in this group! > > > > Thanks, > > J > > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > > *Justin Romack* | Assistive Technology Coordinator > > Disability Resources | Texas A&M University > > 1224 TAMU | College Station, TX 77843-1224 > > > > ph: 979.845.1637 | justinr@disability.tamu.edu | disability.tamu.edu > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > *DIVISION OF STUDENT AFFAIRS *| One Division. One Mission > > > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu Thu May 20 10:34:47 2021 From: armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu (Deborah Armstrong) Date: Thu May 20 10:35:14 2021 Subject: [Athen] Beware of incoherent students Message-ID: I was helping another college prepare some Braille for a student and reminded them of an experience I've often had. The student requests all class handouts and textbook in Braille. But student has a Braille note-taker. It automatically translates Braille for her. There is no need therefor for me to translate anything or to get a service to do it for us ... unless It is Braille music, math, scientific material or complex formatting with charts. If it is a novel, a nonfiction book which is straight text, then there's no reason for me to go through the time-consuming process to produce Braille if the student's device can do it already. This is also true if the student has Windows a Mac or iOS. If a Braille display is attached, it can already do the translation. So it's important to question the student before you start doing all that hard and possibly unnecessary work. Another situation occurs when the student requests "a book in audio" But they may already be competent users of Read And Write, Kurzweil, Natural Reader, Capti or some other reading system. I've even had a VoiceDream Reader user ask for a book in audio. Most of my students who request "audio" really want a PDF to load in to K3000, so be sure you know what the student is really requesting! --Debee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Cindy.Poore-Pariseau at bristolcc.edu Fri May 21 08:04:40 2021 From: Cindy.Poore-Pariseau at bristolcc.edu (Poore-Pariseau, Cindy) Date: Fri May 21 08:05:04 2021 Subject: [Athen] reposting job description: Assistive Technology Specialist (Program Coordinator I) for Rutgers Access and Disability Resources In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, if you know anyone looking to work with our exciting team, please send them this announcement: Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey, is seeking an Assistive Technology Specialist (Program Coordinator I) for Rutgers Access and Disability Resources. The position coordinates assistive and learning technologies for students with disabilities at Rutgers and provides alternative format textbooks and course materials that work with the student?s individual technology needs at all Rutgers campuses. Among the key duties of this position are the following: * Meets individually with students registered with the Office of Disability Services to evaluate the needs related to technological requirements and provides interventions and solutions for accessing course information, technologies and resources. * Works with instructors, faculty, disability services personnel and students to determine potential accessibility obstacles related to coursework and determine appropriate reasonable accommodations and technology to address these barriers. * Responsible for working with the campus community as needed to recommend appropriate hardware and software for student use. * Responsible for maintenance and inventory of equipment. * Recommends upgrades and updates for equipment software and hardware. * Maintains status reports of textbook conversions. * Keeps accurate records of projects. * Ensures reasonable accommodation processes are timely and effective. * Trains students with disabilities on equipment software, hardware, applications and technologies and training of student workers on the scanning of textbook and materials. The position is full time. You can apply at: https://jobs.rutgers.edu/postings/130853 Salary range: $48-55K For questions reach out to Jason Khurdan at: jkhurdan@echo.rutgers.edu We are woven together, by whatever threads of life that have brought us here. I don't know how, I don't know where . . . all I know is now. -Amy Grant Cindy Poore-Pariseau, Ph. D. Bristol Community College Adjunct Instructor http://ods-as.blogspot.com Email: cindy.poore-pariseau@bristolcc.edu Phone: 774-357-2486 ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhayman at olympic.edu Fri May 21 09:19:54 2021 From: dhayman at olympic.edu (Hayman, Douglass) Date: Fri May 21 09:20:02 2021 Subject: [Athen] Accessible chatbot recommendations Message-ID: Hi All, Do you all have recommendations on chatbots that you've found to be accessible? I've been asked to assess a couple of them and wondered what others may have already walked around and kicked the tires on. Thanks, Doug Hayman IT Accessibility Coordinator Information Technology Olympic College dhayman@olympic.edu (360) 475-7632 (currently working remotely and don't have access to this phone) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mweiler at wlu.ca Fri May 21 09:36:01 2021 From: mweiler at wlu.ca (Mark Weiler) Date: Fri May 21 09:36:34 2021 Subject: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? Message-ID: Does anyone know of quality assurance testing to determine whether magnified font is usable by people with low vision who require magnification? Here are two magnified texts that have differences. [The word public that is very readable. Like very readable Braille.] [The word public that is has blurry edges. I imagine it's a bit like readable Braille on sandpaper.] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 123008 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 243156 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: From steve.green at testpartners.co.uk Fri May 21 11:29:20 2021 From: steve.green at testpartners.co.uk (Steve Green) Date: Fri May 21 11:30:02 2021 Subject: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You won't be able to do a test and apply the results generally. It will depend on the nature and severity of each person's visual condition. There is more to magnification and font smoothing than most people are probably aware of. I am no expert, but I did a little research last year and sent the following message to my team. Apologies for the repeated mention of my company - this was an internal email that I didn't expect to share publicly. When using ZoomText and Windows, there are at least 3 different types of font smoothing, so it is important that you understand them. The following is my current understanding, but there may be even more to it than this. In particular, these notes only refer to websites, not desktop applications or Windows itself. ClearType This is the native font smoothing that is built into Windows, and it is turned on by default. You will find it under Settings > Personalisation > Fonts. [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] ZoomText automatically turns ClearType off when it launches, but ClearType is not turned back on when ZoomText closes. The following screenshots show the same text with ClearType turned on and off. [A close up of a logo Description automatically generated] [A close up of a logo Description automatically generated] ZoomText font smoothing ZoomText uses two different types of font smoothing (xFont and Geometric) depending on the browser. These are controlled via the ZoomText > Preferences > Smoothing dialog. [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] xFont Magnification xFont Magnification is used for Internet Explorer and results in extremely smooth characters, assuming the font is supported. [cid:image008.png@01D74E77.9335CB90] Geometric Smoothing Geometric Smoothing is used for Chrome and Firefox and results in a "wobbly" outline to the text. [cid:image009.png@01D74E77.9335CB90] Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list On Behalf Of Mark Weiler Sent: 21 May 2021 17:36 To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? Does anyone know of quality assurance testing to determine whether magnified font is usable by people with low vision who require magnification? Here are two magnified texts that have differences. [The word public that is very readable. Like very readable Braille.] [The word public that is has blurry edges. I imagine it's a bit like readable Braille on sandpaper.] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 123008 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 243156 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 35491 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image009.png Type: image/png Size: 709616 bytes Desc: image009.png URL: From hunziker at arizona.edu Fri May 21 12:39:12 2021 From: hunziker at arizona.edu (Hunziker, Dawn A - (hunziker)) Date: Fri May 21 12:39:55 2021 Subject: [Athen] University of Arizona - Digital Accessibility Consultant position opening Message-ID: Happy Friday, everyone! The Disability Resource Center at the University of Arizona is hiring a Digital Accessibility Consultant! View the Job posting at https://arizona.csod.com/ux/ats/careersite/4/home/requisition/5421?c=arizona - job description is also displayed below. Job Description: The Digital Accessibility Consultant works to ensure that University of Arizona?s technology-based teaching and learning software, applications, tools, and resources are accessible to and usable by all students, staff, faculty, and other individuals who participate in University programs, services, and activities. The Digital Accessibility Consultant is proactive in leading the implementation and program development of the University?s course accessibility tool, online instruction and trainings, digital content, websites, and other information technology. The Digital Accessibility Consultant develops, markets, and implements training and educational materials to advance these goals. 1. Actively participates in the establishment, promotion, and support of accessibility standards, guidelines, trainings, and techniques related to the University?s course accessibility tool, to help ensure campus-wide accessibility of digital course content. To accomplish this goal, active leadership and initiation of projects is required. * Identifies, develops, advertises, and presents guidelines, processes, checklists, how-to documents, trainings, and other resources to support an accessible digital course environment. This responsibility includes leading trainings and creating and managing content via websites or other digital distribution methods. * Initiates contact and collaborations to lead University personnel in researching, identifying, recommending, and implementing solutions for accessible course design based on data and reporting analytics provided by the University?s course accessibility tool. * Serve as primary point of contact for the University?s course accessibility tool to respond to inquiries, support students, instructors, and instructional designers in the use of the tool, promote new features, and identify and troubleshoot issues. * Serves as a consultant for institutional personnel in implementing universal design and accessible digital access solutions across University courses. 1. Supports Disability Resource Center in ensuring accessibility * Consults with academic accommodations team to develop best practices in creating accessible course content. * Collaborates with academic accommodations team to identify courses where consultation and training would increase access to course content. * Develops and analyzes reports to document trends for accessible course content and impact on DRC?s alternate formats area. * Consults with University personnel, including DRC staff, in researching, identifying, recommending, and implementing solutions to student and employee access barriers. 1. Works strategically across campus to incorporate and increase awareness about universal access and inclusive design across campus digital environments. Collaborate and assist IT accessibility team on projects as needed. Professional activities: * Stays abreast of emerging assistive, information and instructional technologies, solutions, standards, legislation/settlements, and design strategies. * Plans, conducts, and reports disability and higher education research related to accessible course content and best practices for accommodations in the electronic environment. * Develops and maintains partnerships that further the mission and vision of Disability Resources and increase the capacity of the campus to ensure access for people with disabilities. * Provides information to other institutions about University practices and models; tracks higher education trends and service patterns. * Participates in professional development activities through presentations, publications, attendance at conferences and/or related activities. Knowledge, Skills and Abilities * Strong written and interpersonal communication skills. * Bachelor's degree or equivalent advanced learning attained through professional level experience required. * Minimum of 3 years of relevant work experience is required. * Experience with assistive technologies; alternate format processes and strategies; and academic technologies. * Experience in digital and web accessibility standards and guidelines. * Experience in creating accessible web and digital content. * Experience in disability law, inclusive educational design, and disability frameworks and their application in higher education. * Experience with developing and delivering professional content, presentations, and workshops. Dawn Dawn Hunziker Assistant Director, Digital and Physical Access | Disability Resources The University of Arizona | hunziker@arizona.edu drc.arizona.edu | itaccessibility.arizona.edu 520-626-9409 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From foreigntype at gmail.com Fri May 21 14:23:48 2021 From: foreigntype at gmail.com (foreigntype@gmail.com) Date: Fri May 21 14:24:48 2021 Subject: [Athen] saving comments for JAWS access in ABBYY FineReader Message-ID: I have a student who is blind in my graduate class who is a JAWS user and cannot access comments in the gradebook In Blackboard made on their submitted written projects. The version of Blackboard that CUNY uses does not provide access to the comments on graded material. The student asked me to send a separate file of the comments by email and/or grade their written project in Microsoft Word instead of online in the gradebook. If I just provide the comments, they are no longer linked to the text where the corrections belong. Removed from their context, the comments don't make a lot of sense. I downloaded the student's project & proceeded to do a redaction with comments in Abbyy FineReader 15.0. Abbyy FineReader allows me to make the comments using Dragon NaturallySpeaking which is something I can't use in Blackboard either. Abbyy FineReader allows for a number of different types of export file types, none of which include the comments. Do any of you have any quick ideas or suggestions on how to export the comments and save them so I can send them back to the student? Do you know if JAWS will have access to/read the comments? I spent 4 hours on this so far and still have 10 more papers to grade. I want to make sure the student gets the information that she needs but I can't spend any more time trying to figure out how to enforce the file to do something. Any tips or suggestions are welcome! Thank you in advance. Wink Harner Accessibility Consultant/Alternative Text Production The Foreign Type Portland OR foreigntype@gmailcom 480-984-0034 This email was dictated using Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please forgive quirks, misrecognitions, or errata . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mweiler at wlu.ca Mon May 24 13:25:27 2021 From: mweiler at wlu.ca (Mark Weiler) Date: Mon May 24 13:25:56 2021 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Assessing quality of magnified text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, Are you certain there are no tests? That could really leave the door wide open for just about any degraded font to get by since there?s no basis to say it?s unacceptable. Perhaps optometrist have developed a suite of standards tests that could be used to define an accessible font magnification behavior. I believe I had ClearFont turned on. Perhaps though I?m missing something configurable. I don?t have low vision but when I checked with Internet Explorer, it seems vastly better than Chrome or Edge! See the embedded images. The first one is from Internet Explorer and the font is easily perceivable, like perfectly formed braille dots. The second image from Chrome or Edge, I can?t recall which one, communicates like Braille on light sandpaper. I believe Internet Explorer will no longer be shipped with Windows 10. Internet Explorer [cid:image010.png@01D750B9.63DE3DC0] Chrome or Edge (both were like this one) [cid:image011.png@01D750B9.63DE3DC0] From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 2:29 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? You won?t be able to do a test and apply the results generally. It will depend on the nature and severity of each person?s visual condition. There is more to magnification and font smoothing than most people are probably aware of. I am no expert, but I did a little research last year and sent the following message to my team. Apologies for the repeated mention of my company ? this was an internal email that I didn?t expect to share publicly. When using ZoomText and Windows, there are at least 3 different types of font smoothing, so it is important that you understand them. The following is my current understanding, but there may be even more to it than this. In particular, these notes only refer to websites, not desktop applications or Windows itself. ClearType This is the native font smoothing that is built into Windows, and it is turned on by default. You will find it under Settings > Personalisation > Fonts. [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] ZoomText automatically turns ClearType off when it launches, but ClearType is not turned back on when ZoomText closes. The following screenshots show the same text with ClearType turned on and off. [A close up of a logo Description automatically generated] [A close up of a logo Description automatically generated] ZoomText font smoothing ZoomText uses two different types of font smoothing (xFont and Geometric) depending on the browser. These are controlled via the ZoomText > Preferences > Smoothing dialog. [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] xFont Magnification xFont Magnification is used for Internet Explorer and results in extremely smooth characters, assuming the font is supported. [cid:image017.png@01D750B9.63DE3DC0] Geometric Smoothing Geometric Smoothing is used for Chrome and Firefox and results in a ?wobbly? outline to the text. [cid:image018.png@01D750B9.63DE3DC0] Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Mark Weiler Sent: 21 May 2021 17:36 To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? Does anyone know of quality assurance testing to determine whether magnified font is usable by people with low vision who require magnification? Here are two magnified texts that have differences. [The word public that is very readable. Like very readable Braille.] [The word public that is has blurry edges. I imagine it's a bit like readable Braille on sandpaper.] * ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image010.png Type: image/png Size: 96584 bytes Desc: image010.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image017.png Type: image/png Size: 846768 bytes Desc: image017.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image018.png Type: image/png Size: 709616 bytes Desc: image018.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image019.png Type: image/png Size: 123008 bytes Desc: image019.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image020.png Type: image/png Size: 243156 bytes Desc: image020.png URL: From steve.green at testpartners.co.uk Mon May 24 15:40:04 2021 From: steve.green at testpartners.co.uk (Steve Green) Date: Mon May 24 15:41:14 2021 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Assessing quality of magnified text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are certainly no objective tests for font magnification quality in the web accessibility world. It?s possible that there are some such tests in other professions, but even if you find them you would need to work out how to apply them to websites. Even if you have ClearType turned on in Windows, it is turned off automatically when ZoomText starts. I don?t know if other magnification software does that. As mentioned in my previous email, the xFont smoothing for Internet Explorer is much better than the geometric smoothing for Chrome, Edge and Firefox. Your screenshots show that very clearly, and it?s what I would expect. What magnification software are you using? Internet Explorer 11 will be retired in June 2022, at which time it will redirect to Edge, so you can still use it for another year. There are a few exceptions, such as Windows 7 and 8.1, which will still run Internet Explorer after that because you can?t install Edge on them. Edge will have an ?Internet Explorer 11 mode?, but I don?t know if this will behave like Edge or Internet Explorer with regard to font magnification. Steve From: athen-list On Behalf Of Mark Weiler Sent: 24 May 2021 21:25 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Assessing quality of magnified text? Hi Steve, Are you certain there are no tests? That could really leave the door wide open for just about any degraded font to get by since there?s no basis to say it?s unacceptable. Perhaps optometrist have developed a suite of standards tests that could be used to define an accessible font magnification behavior. I believe I had ClearFont turned on. Perhaps though I?m missing something configurable. I don?t have low vision but when I checked with Internet Explorer, it seems vastly better than Chrome or Edge! See the embedded images. The first one is from Internet Explorer and the font is easily perceivable, like perfectly formed braille dots. The second image from Chrome or Edge, I can?t recall which one, communicates like Braille on light sandpaper. I believe Internet Explorer will no longer be shipped with Windows 10. Internet Explorer [cid:image001.png@01D750F4.9391FEE0] Chrome or Edge (both were like this one) [cid:image002.png@01D750F4.9391FEE0] From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 2:29 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? You won?t be able to do a test and apply the results generally. It will depend on the nature and severity of each person?s visual condition. There is more to magnification and font smoothing than most people are probably aware of. I am no expert, but I did a little research last year and sent the following message to my team. Apologies for the repeated mention of my company ? this was an internal email that I didn?t expect to share publicly. When using ZoomText and Windows, there are at least 3 different types of font smoothing, so it is important that you understand them. The following is my current understanding, but there may be even more to it than this. In particular, these notes only refer to websites, not desktop applications or Windows itself. ClearType This is the native font smoothing that is built into Windows, and it is turned on by default. You will find it under Settings > Personalisation > Fonts. [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] ZoomText automatically turns ClearType off when it launches, but ClearType is not turned back on when ZoomText closes. The following screenshots show the same text with ClearType turned on and off. [A close up of a logo Description automatically generated] [A close up of a logo Description automatically generated] ZoomText font smoothing ZoomText uses two different types of font smoothing (xFont and Geometric) depending on the browser. These are controlled via the ZoomText > Preferences > Smoothing dialog. [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] xFont Magnification xFont Magnification is used for Internet Explorer and results in extremely smooth characters, assuming the font is supported. [cid:image008.png@01D750F4.9391FEE0] Geometric Smoothing Geometric Smoothing is used for Chrome and Firefox and results in a ?wobbly? outline to the text. [cid:image009.png@01D750F4.9391FEE0] Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Mark Weiler Sent: 21 May 2021 17:36 To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? Does anyone know of quality assurance testing to determine whether magnified font is usable by people with low vision who require magnification? Here are two magnified texts that have differences. [The word public that is very readable. Like very readable Braille.] [The word public that is has blurry edges. I imagine it's a bit like readable Braille on sandpaper.] * ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 96584 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 184210 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 35491 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16267 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18497 bytes Desc: image005.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 30320 bytes Desc: image006.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 43648 bytes Desc: image007.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image008.png Type: image/png Size: 846768 bytes Desc: image008.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image009.png Type: image/png Size: 709616 bytes Desc: image009.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image010.png Type: image/png Size: 123008 bytes Desc: image010.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image011.png Type: image/png Size: 243156 bytes Desc: image011.png URL: From jturay at ccu.edu Mon May 24 16:26:16 2021 From: jturay at ccu.edu (Turay, Jeanna) Date: Mon May 24 16:26:26 2021 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] saving comments for JAWS access in ABBYY FineReader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Wink, I just saw this. We have a student who is blind that works with JAWS in Blackboard as well. I don?t know what projects you have to grade, but what our instructors do for our student is download the paper in Word and put comments into it with ?Track Changes? on. He said that has worked for him using JAWS. I can try and find out more from the student if it will help you navigate with your student using JAWS and Bb. Feel free to reach out to me directly if you?d like: Jturay@ccu.edu. Jeanna This e-mail may contain information protected by the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and delete the e-mail. Thank you. From: athen-list On Behalf Of foreigntype@gmail.com Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 3:24 PM To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: [EXTERNAL EMAIL] [Athen] saving comments for JAWS access in ABBYY FineReader CAUTION: This email is from outside CCU. Don't open links or attachments unless you expected to receive them, and check the sender's address before replying. I have a student who is blind in my graduate class who is a JAWS user and cannot access comments in the gradebook In Blackboard made on their submitted written projects. The version of Blackboard that CUNY uses does not provide access to the comments on graded material. The student asked me to send a separate file of the comments by email and/or grade their written project in Microsoft Word instead of online in the gradebook. If I just provide the comments, they are no longer linked to the text where the corrections belong. Removed from their context, the comments don't make a lot of sense. I downloaded the student's project & proceeded to do a redaction with comments in Abbyy FineReader 15.0. Abbyy FineReader allows me to make the comments using Dragon NaturallySpeaking which is something I can't use in Blackboard either. Abbyy FineReader allows for a number of different types of export file types, none of which include the comments. Do any of you have any quick ideas or suggestions on how to export the comments and save them so I can send them back to the student? Do you know if JAWS will have access to/read the comments? I spent 4 hours on this so far and still have 10 more papers to grade. I want to make sure the student gets the information that she needs but I can't spend any more time trying to figure out how to enforce the file to do something. Any tips or suggestions are welcome! Thank you in advance. Wink Harner Accessibility Consultant/Alternative Text Production The Foreign Type Portland OR foreigntype@gmailcom 480-984-0034 This email was dictated using Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please forgive quirks, misrecognitions, or errata . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From foreigntype at gmail.com Mon May 24 16:47:49 2021 From: foreigntype at gmail.com (foreigntype@gmail.com) Date: Mon May 24 16:48:28 2021 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL EMAIL] saving comments for JAWS access in ABBYY FineReader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is exceptionally helpful, thank you Jeanna. I will make a note of this and share it with the student. She can pass the suggestion on to her future instructors. Wink On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 4:26 PM Turay, Jeanna wrote: > Hi Wink, > > I just saw this. We have a student who is blind that works with JAWS in > Blackboard as well. I don?t know what projects you have to grade, but what > our instructors do for our student is download the paper in Word and put > comments into it with ?Track Changes? on. He said that has worked for him > using JAWS. > > > > I can try and find out more from the student if it will help you navigate > with your student using JAWS and Bb. > > > > Feel free to reach out to me directly if you?d like: Jturay@ccu.edu. > > *Jeanna * > > *This e-mail may contain information protected by the Family Education > Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). * > > *If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender and delete > the e-mail. Thank you.* > > > > *From:* athen-list *On > Behalf Of *foreigntype@gmail.com > *Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2021 3:24 PM > *To:* athen-list@u.washington.edu > *Subject:* [EXTERNAL EMAIL] [Athen] saving comments for JAWS access in > ABBYY FineReader > > > > > > *CAUTION:* This email is from outside CCU. Don't open links or > attachments unless you expected to receive them, and check the sender's > address before replying. > > > > I have a student who is blind in my graduate class who is a JAWS user and > cannot access comments in the gradebook In Blackboard made on their > submitted written projects. The version of Blackboard that CUNY uses does > not provide access to the comments on graded material. > > The student asked me to send a separate file of the comments by email > and/or grade their written project in Microsoft Word instead of online in > the gradebook. If I just provide the comments, they are no longer linked to > the text where the corrections belong. Removed from their context, the > comments don't make a lot of sense. I downloaded the student's project & > proceeded to do a redaction with comments in Abbyy FineReader 15.0. Abbyy > FineReader allows me to make the comments using Dragon > NaturallySpeaking which is something I can't use in Blackboard either. > > Abbyy FineReader allows for a number of different types of export file > types, none of which include the comments. Do any of you have any quick > ideas or suggestions on how to export the comments and save them so I can > send them back to the student? Do you know if JAWS will have access to/read > the comments? I spent 4 hours on this so far and still have 10 more papers > to grade. I want to make sure the student gets the information that she > needs but I can't spend any more time trying to figure out how to enforce > the file to do something. > > > Any tips or suggestions are welcome! Thank you in advance. > > Wink Harner > > Accessibility Consultant/Alternative Text Production > > The Foreign Type > > Portland OR > foreigntype@gmailcom > 480-984-0034 > > This email was dictated using Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please forgive > quirks, misrecognitions, or errata . > _______________________________________________ > athen-list mailing list > athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu > http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list > -- Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text Production Portland OR. foreigntype@gmail.com 480-984-0034 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mweiler at wlu.ca Mon May 24 17:30:45 2021 From: mweiler at wlu.ca (Mark Weiler) Date: Mon May 24 17:31:25 2021 Subject: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Assessing quality of magnified text? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was using ZoomText 2021. From: athen-list On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 6:40 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Assessing quality of magnified text? There are certainly no objective tests for font magnification quality in the web accessibility world. It?s possible that there are some such tests in other professions, but even if you find them you would need to work out how to apply them to websites. Even if you have ClearType turned on in Windows, it is turned off automatically when ZoomText starts. I don?t know if other magnification software does that. As mentioned in my previous email, the xFont smoothing for Internet Explorer is much better than the geometric smoothing for Chrome, Edge and Firefox. Your screenshots show that very clearly, and it?s what I would expect. What magnification software are you using? Internet Explorer 11 will be retired in June 2022, at which time it will redirect to Edge, so you can still use it for another year. There are a few exceptions, such as Windows 7 and 8.1, which will still run Internet Explorer after that because you can?t install Edge on them. Edge will have an ?Internet Explorer 11 mode?, but I don?t know if this will behave like Edge or Internet Explorer with regard to font magnification. Steve From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Mark Weiler Sent: 24 May 2021 21:25 To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL *] Re: Assessing quality of magnified text? Hi Steve, Are you certain there are no tests? That could really leave the door wide open for just about any degraded font to get by since there?s no basis to say it?s unacceptable. Perhaps optometrist have developed a suite of standards tests that could be used to define an accessible font magnification behavior. I believe I had ClearFont turned on. Perhaps though I?m missing something configurable. I don?t have low vision but when I checked with Internet Explorer, it seems vastly better than Chrome or Edge! See the embedded images. The first one is from Internet Explorer and the font is easily perceivable, like perfectly formed braille dots. The second image from Chrome or Edge, I can?t recall which one, communicates like Braille on light sandpaper. I believe Internet Explorer will no longer be shipped with Windows 10. Internet Explorer [cid:image001.png@01D750DA.E984B500] Chrome or Edge (both were like this one) [cid:image002.png@01D750DA.E984B500] From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 2:29 PM To: Access Technology Higher Education Network > Subject: [EXTERNAL *] Re: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? You won?t be able to do a test and apply the results generally. It will depend on the nature and severity of each person?s visual condition. There is more to magnification and font smoothing than most people are probably aware of. I am no expert, but I did a little research last year and sent the following message to my team. Apologies for the repeated mention of my company ? this was an internal email that I didn?t expect to share publicly. When using ZoomText and Windows, there are at least 3 different types of font smoothing, so it is important that you understand them. The following is my current understanding, but there may be even more to it than this. In particular, these notes only refer to websites, not desktop applications or Windows itself. ClearType This is the native font smoothing that is built into Windows, and it is turned on by default. You will find it under Settings > Personalisation > Fonts. [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] ZoomText automatically turns ClearType off when it launches, but ClearType is not turned back on when ZoomText closes. The following screenshots show the same text with ClearType turned on and off. [A close up of a logo Description automatically generated] [A close up of a logo Description automatically generated] ZoomText font smoothing ZoomText uses two different types of font smoothing (xFont and Geometric) depending on the browser. These are controlled via the ZoomText > Preferences > Smoothing dialog. [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] [A screenshot of a cell phone Description automatically generated] xFont Magnification xFont Magnification is used for Internet Explorer and results in extremely smooth characters, assuming the font is supported. [cid:image008.png@01D750DA.E984B500] Geometric Smoothing Geometric Smoothing is used for Chrome and Firefox and results in a ?wobbly? outline to the text. [cid:image009.png@01D750DA.E984B500] Steve Green Managing Director Test Partners Ltd From: athen-list > On Behalf Of Mark Weiler Sent: 21 May 2021 17:36 To: athen-list@u.washington.edu Subject: [Athen] Assessing quality of magnified text? Does anyone know of quality assurance testing to determine whether magnified font is usable by people with low vision who require magnification? Here are two magnified texts that have differences. [The word public that is very readable. Like very readable Braille.] [The word public that is has blurry edges. I imagine it's a bit like readable Braille on sandpaper.] * ? Notice: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 96584 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 184210 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 35491 bytes Desc: image003.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16267 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 18497 bytes Desc: image005.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 30320 bytes Desc: image006.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image007.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 43648 bytes Desc: image007.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image008.png Type: image/png Size: 846768 bytes Desc: image008.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image009.png Type: image/png Size: 709616 bytes Desc: image009.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image010.png Type: image/png Size: 123008 bytes Desc: image010.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image011.png Type: image/png Size: 243156 bytes Desc: image011.png URL: From Doug.Mantle at kings.uwo.ca Tue May 25 10:41:11 2021 From: Doug.Mantle at kings.uwo.ca (Doug Mantle) Date: Tue May 25 10:41:38 2021 Subject: [Athen] FW: [N.O.A.T.] You Are Invited - Inspiration RD: Cloud based solution for delivering Inspiration 10 onto Chromebooks, macOS & Windows - N.O.A.T. Webinar - 28 May 2021 @ 1:30pm Eastern In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good day! Please join The Network of Assistive Technologists for our upcoming webinar - Inspiration RD - Cloud based solution for delivering Inspiration 10 onto Chromebooks, macOS & Windows. Friday, May 28, 2021 @ 1:30pm Eastern Details and registration links are below. Any questions, please reach out to info@NOAT.ca Take care, Doug Subject: [N.O.A.T.] You Are Invited - Inspiration RD: Cloud based solution for delivering Inspiration 10 onto Chromebooks, macOS & Windows - N.O.A.T. Webinar - 28 May 2021 @ 1:30pm Eastern Good day! Please join us for our upcoming webinar... On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 1:30pm Eastern, join The Network of Assistive Technologists as we welcome REEZA AWOODUN Founder & Director, TechEd Marketing - Publisher of Inspiration Inspiration RD Cloud based solution for delivering Inspiration 10 onto Chromebooks, macOS & Windows Inspiration RD is our new cloud based remote desktop service for accessing Inspiration 10 on Chromebooks, macOS and Windows, using a downloadable client or via an online browser. It delivers a near identical user experience to running Inspiration 10 on a local PC. Microsoft Word and PowerPoint is included with Inspiration RD, for seamless transfer to either program. Plus online cloud storage is provided. This has been developed in mind to give students with macOS and Chromebook devices the opportunity to access Inspiration 10 as an AT solution, as well as for education institutions to deliver Inspiration 10 as part of a distance learning strategy. In this session we will introduce you to Inspiration RD, so you can see the user experience (UX) through both a Mac or Chromebook device; using the desktop client and browser. Plus, there will be the chance to answer your questions live in the session. For more details and to register, please visit the N.O.A.T. Events Website. We look forward to seeing you online Friday, May 28, 2021 at 1:30pm Eastern If you have any questions, please reach out. Take care! Doug Mantle, Founder | The Network of Assistive Technologists www.NOAT.ca | info@NOAT.ca -- [https://www.kings.uwo.ca/kings/assets/Image/email/accessibility-counselling.png] King?s University College is committed to accessibility for persons with disabilities. Please contact us if you have any particular accommodation requirements or require information in an alternate format. ________________________________ Confidentiality Notice: The contents of this communication, including any attachment(s), are confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient (or are not receiving this communication on behalf of the intended recipient), please notify the sender immediately and delete or destroy this communication without reading it, and without making, forwarding, or retaining any copy or record of it or its contents. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From coco.napolis at csueastbay.edu Thu May 27 10:49:17 2021 From: coco.napolis at csueastbay.edu (Coco Napolis) Date: Thu May 27 10:50:11 2021 Subject: [Athen] AT Position - Cal State East Bay hiring! Message-ID: All, Please share to any interested parties you may know. Thank you! *About the Position* (...) Accessibility Services (AS) provides eligible students with disabilities academic accommodations, disability counseling, and campus and community resources for an accessible educational experience. AS ensures that CSUEB?s campus climate is inclusive and facilitates accommodations in all areas of learning. Under the direction of the AS Director, the Assistive Technology Coordinator oversees Assistive Technology services for students receiving support through Accessibility Services. This includes, but is not limited to, conducting assessments for students with disabilities and their need for assistive technology; determining best options for students from low tech solutions to high tech solutions; and training students on the use of such assistive technology. This position may provide assessments and training for staff and faculty with disabilities in conjunction with the department of Human Resources. Working with campus Information Technology Solutions (ITS), the Assistive Technology Coordinator will assist with Voluntary Product Accessibility Templates (VPAT), Information and Communications Technology (ICT) reviews, Accessibility Conformance Reports (ACRs) and/or Equally Effective Alternate Access Plans (EEAAP). Additionally, the Assistive Technology Coordinator oversees the provision of Accessible Testing accommodations and provides technological support to that program as needed. This is a full-time (40 hours/week) temporary position through June 30, 2022, with the possibility of reappointment. The typical schedule for this position is Monday through Friday, 8:30am ? 5:30pm. Salary range: between $4,372.00/month and $7,545.00/month. More information and to apply: https://careers.pageuppeople.com/873/eb/en-us/job/500325/assistive-technology-coordinator-information-technology-consultant-career-temporary-through-june-30-2022-with-the-possibility-of-reappointment -- (Corazon) Coco Napolis IT Accessibility & Business Operations Specialist Information Technology Solutions Cal State East Bay (510) 885-3831 Direct Production Assistants: alternate.media@csueastbay.edu *"To receive much, Is to give much."* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: