[From nobody Sat Jun 9 18:28:22 2018 Return-path: <lyris-admin@htclistserv.htctu.fhda.edu> Received: from hope.its.csufresno.edu (hope.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.15]) by zimmer.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.12 (built May 22 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JFN00IFA4Q1K3@zimmer.csufresno.edu> for lornas@csufresno.edu; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ginko.htctu.fhda.edu ([153.18.130.7]) by hope.its.csufresno.edu with SMTP; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:13:01 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:12:00 -0800 From: Lyris ListManager <lyris-admin@htclistserv.htctu.fhda.edu> Subject: Re: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story To: lornas@csufresno.edu Reply-to: Lyris ListManager <lyris@htclistserv.htctu.fhda.edu> Message-id: <LYRIS0-1175130720--1524-lyris-admin@htclistserv.htctu.fhda.edu> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAMyvCkaZEoIHh2dsb2JhbACQBAEBAQgOKg X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,342,1170662400"; d="vcf'?scan'208"; a="157956890:sNHT98536725" X-lyris-type: post-failed Original-recipient: rfc822;lornas@csufresno.edu Sorry, but Lyris ListManager did not find your email address -> "lornas@csufresno.edu" listed as a member of altmedia. 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Because Lyris ListManager could not confirm that you are a member of altmedia, your message was not accepted. --- Return-Path: <lornas@csufresno.edu> Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu ([129.8.52.178]) by ginko.htctu.fhda.edu with SMTP (Lyris ListManager WIN32 version 7.0d); Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:11:59 -0800 Received: from zimmer.csufresno.edu (zimmer.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.100]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A99B4400B; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvip.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimmer.csufresno.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.12 (built May 22 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JFN00I6R4OUGY@zimmer.csufresno.edu>; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.8.167.82] by zimmer.csufresno.edu (mshttpd); Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:12:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:12:30 -0700 From: Lorna Saiz <lornas@csufresno.edu> Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story In-reply-to: <002301c77198$623a63f0$26af2bd0$@org> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network <athen@athenpro.org> Cc: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' <athen@athenpro.org>, 'Alternate Media' <altmedia@htclistserv.htctu.fhda.edu>, DSSHE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Message-id: <fa26cf077f42.7f42fa26cf07@cvip.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 2.12 (built May 22 2006) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_k+yEPec3+fziH//3V9TinA)" Content-language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <017f01c77159$6c6317d0$45294770$%stewart@dolphinusa.com> <6DC38348EDE07642B024AA3CA0AA1BDC04B46F5D@EX04.asurite.ad.asu.edu> <002301c77198$623a63f0$26af2bd0$@org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_k+yEPec3+fziH//3V9TinA) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_kV5+FEXAqPLJsTdCJODYhw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_kV5+FEXAqPLJsTdCJODYhw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline Good for you Ron Stewart!!! I am a true fan! You've helped me numerous times and always responded to any dumb question? I may have. Thank you for your ongoing support. I remain one of the first members of ATHEN at its inception. Thanks for you! Lorna Saiz Administrative Systems Operations, AT Coordinator Services for Students with Disabilities Ph:559.278.2811 Fax:559.278.4214 lornas@csufresno.edu http://www.csufresno.edu/ssd ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Ron Stewart' <ron@ahead.org> Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:27 pm Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' <athen@athenpro.org>, 'Alternate Media' <altmedia@htclistserv.htctu.fhda.edu>, DSSHE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Good evening, > > I made the decision this week to express my opinion in regards to > an issue > that could have the potential to further marginalize folks with > disabilityfrom the mainstream educational space. Based on my body > of work, in this > field, I thought I was intitled to express my educated opinion. > Oh stupid > me! > > I am going to take this opportunity to reply to all of those have been > taking pot-shots at me, most of them in a cowardly and underhanded > way,since I decided to go to work for Dolphin Computer Access. My > role with > Dolphin gives me the opportunity to finally move the conversation > aboutcurricular access forwared in a meaning and constructive way. > Not just in > the US, but on an international level as well. I find it very > unfortunatethat a number of people have not had the courage > (phrase of your choice > here) to actually contact me directly or debate in any meaningful > way the > issues at hand. I think you need to take a good hard look at the > agendayour working from and join a team, maybe not my team but to > become a part of > the solution to the problem. > > My first reaction to all of this was, to borrow a turn of prhase > from my > English friends to tell you all to .... but common sense > prevailed. Am I > angry yes, am I frustrated by the ingratititude that I have seen > in the last > six months yes, am I going to walk away from it all, not a ....... > chance. > > For those who are not aware let me first give you an idea of the > voluntaryroles I hold in this space: > > Founding and current president of ATHEN > Technology Advisor to AHEAD > Chair of the AHEAD E-Text Initiative > Post-secondary representative to the NIMAS development committee. > > I have devoted the last 15 years of my life to try to overcome the > marginalization of people with disabilities in the postsecondary > space. I > made the move back into this arena for what were at the time very > personalreasons, but it is decision I will never look a back on. > I made my most > recent carreer change based on not what was best for me alone, but > what I > felt at the time on what was best for my moving our agenda > forward. > > If you do not like it, then tough, nobody said life was fair. If > you want > to engage me in a legitimate conversation about the issues, > wonderful. If > you are concerned about my being a wolf in the henhouse, then > let's talk > about it. Otherwise help me contribute to finding a solution and > put your > petty self serving issues to the side. > > Ron Stewart > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: athen-bounces@athenpro.org [mailto:athen- > bounces@athenpro.org] On > Behalf Of Terri Hedgpeth > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 3:48 PM > To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network > Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story > > Ron, this is interesting considering your current position in a > commercial AT company. > > > > Dr. Terri Hedgpeth > Academic Research Professional > CUbiC #376, iCare > (480) 727-8133 V > (480) 965-1885 Fax > CUbiC.asu.edu > http://www.fulton.asu.edu/fulton/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: athen-bounces@athenpro.org [mailto:athen- > bounces@athenpro.org] On > Behalf Of Ron Stewart > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:52 AM > To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story > > John, > > This obviously is a topic that is going nowhere, I feel I have clearly > stated my position on this particular topic and the use of any > automatedtool for access checking on numerous occasions. I think > my contribution > to the professional body of knowledge in this field is beyond > question,but > then perhaps that is just my opinion as well. > > Ron Stewart > > > -----Original Message----- > From: athen-bounces@athenpro.org [mailto:athen- > bounces@athenpro.org] On > Behalf Of John Foliot - Stanford Online Accessibility Program > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:21 AM > To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' > Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story > > Ron Stewart wrote: > > After having conversations with several folks in the know, who > also > > share my concerns, this product typically results in > segregationist > > practices of access. That is a step backward in the minds of > many of > > those who have worked in this field for an extended period of time. > > That is the basis of my concerns, that and the promises made and > never > > delivered reality of how Hi-Soft chooses to do typically do > > business. > > Ron, > > You, as I, are entitled to an opinion, and a frank and open airing of > these opinions can be a benefit to any list member who wishes to weigh > the pros and cons. Having worked in the web accessibility field > for over > 8 years now, I am hardly a neophyte when it comes to this topic. Your > suggestion that the implementation of a QA tool that when used > properlycan be of great assistance, is a "step backward" is > opinionatedhyperbole that should be recognized as such. Please, > if you wish to > contribute to the general body of knowledge, explain your concern: > whatexactly does using this tool do that creates "...segregationist > practices...", and then please explain how the tool (as opposed to an > ill-informed or improperly trained operator) causes this problem. > > *In Your Opinion* HiSoftware's sales practices go against your grain, > that's fair, but I also have first hand knowledge that the company > consists of caring and reasonable people who have accessibility > concernsin their agenda. Mr. Yonaitis has given freely of his > time and > knowledge for many years, and HiSoftware hosts and funds the "Cynthia > Says" online tester, which, while not perfect, has done a lot to > informand aid beginning web authors seeking to create accessible > content. > > Slavish reliance on any one tool can be dangerous, as with only one > hammer, everything becomes a nail. But the tool can be a valuable > assetin the hands of informed developers and educators, and your > continuedinsistence that it is somehow "evil" is simply not fair. > > Respectfully, > > JF > --- > John Foliot > Academic Technology Consultant > Stanford Online Accessibility Program > http://soap.stanford.edu > Stanford University > 560 Escondido Mall > Meyer Library 181 > Stanford, CA 94305-3093 > Tel: 650-862-4603 > > > > > Ron Stewart > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: athen-bounces@athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces@athenpro.org] > > On Behalf Of John Foliot - Stanford Online Accessibility Program > > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:49 AM > > To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' > > Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story > > > > Ron Stewart wrote: > >> Morning, > >> We have talked about automated web compliance tools in the > past, but > >> this article I find bothersome since I feel it is a major step > >> backwards on accessibility in what I was hoping was going to be > a > >> progressive approach to systemic access. > >> > http://business.itbusinessnet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=115414>> This is a great tool in an informed hand, but in the wrong hands it > >> is a disaster as many of us have seen. Ron > > > > Attn: Chicken Littles on this list, > > > > Those in the know already understand the issues with automated > > testing. Yet, this article clearly indicates that, > "...HiSoftware's > > solutions are part of our multi-prong strategy for checking the > > accessibility of Web sites in a scalable manner." [David Ernst, > CIO > > and Assistant Vice Chancellor of Information Technology Services at > > CSU] > > > > "...*PART* of a multi-prong strategy..."(!!!) Having worked > with this > > > tool in the past (and in the interest of disclosure I have a > former > > business relationship with Hisoftware) I can assert that the > tool can > > be a powerful tool for tracking and monitoring existing and new > > content. It is not a magic bullet, nor a panacea that will > instantly > > fix all problems, but it *is* a great QA tracking tool that can > aid in > > > identifying accessibility and compliance issues. The tool > combines > > both an automated checker as well as an "interview wizard" > > which walks content authors through the various accessibility > > checkpoints (Section 508 or WCAG) and allows them to check/test > for > > compliancy. The enterprise edition can run scheduled tests on > > multiple and disparate web sites, and forward reports to a > central > > location (if desired) - allowing for example web accessibility > > specialists to identify areas of concern, and perhaps even seek > out > > the "offending" author and educate them on why they have a problem > > and teach them how to fix it. > > > > I cannot for the life of me see how adding this QA tool to the > suite > > of accessibility development assets available to CSU webmasters > is a > > "backward step". Let's be fair here... > > > > JF > > --- > > John Foliot > > Academic Technology Consultant > > Stanford Online Accessibility Program > > http://soap.stanford.edu > > Stanford University > > 560 Escondido Mall > > Meyer Library 181 > > Stanford, CA 94305-3093 > > Tel: 650-862-4603 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Athen mailing list > > Athen@athenpro.org > > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Athen mailing list > > Athen@athenpro.org > > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Athen mailing list > Athen@athenpro.org > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Athen mailing list > Athen@athenpro.org > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org > > _______________________________________________ > Athen mailing list > Athen@athenpro.org > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Athen mailing list > Athen@athenpro.org > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org > --Boundary_(ID_kV5+FEXAqPLJsTdCJODYhw) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline <BODY>Good for you Ron Stewart!!! I am a true fan! You've helped me numerous times and always responded to any dumb question? I may have. Thank you for your ongoing support. I remain one of the first members of ATHEN at its inception. Thanks for you! <BR><BR>Lorna Saiz <BR>Administrative Systems Operations, AT Coordinator <BR>Services for Students with Disabilities <BR>Ph:559.278.2811 <BR>Fax:559.278.4214 <BR><A href="mailto:lornas@csufresno.edu">lornas@csufresno.edu</A> <BR><A href="http://www.csufresno.edu/ssd">http://www.csufresno.edu/ssd</A> <BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: 'Ron Stewart' <ron@ahead.org> <BR>Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 5:27 pm <BR>Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story <BR>To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' <athen@athenpro.org>, 'Alternate Media' <altmedia@htclistserv.htctu.fhda.edu>, DSSHE-L@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU <BR><BR>> Good evening, <BR>> <BR> > I made the decision this week to express my opinion in regards to <BR>> an issue <BR>> that could have the potential to further marginalize folks with <BR>> disabilityfrom the mainstream educational space. Based on my body <BR>> of work, in this <BR>> field, I thought I was intitled to express my educated opinion. <BR>> Oh stupid <BR>> me! <BR>> <BR>> I am going to take this opportunity to reply to all of those have been <BR>> taking pot-shots at me, most of them in a cowardly and underhanded <BR>> way,since I decided to go to work for Dolphin Computer Access. My <BR>> role with <BR>> Dolphin gives me the opportunity to finally move the conversation <BR>> aboutcurricular access forwared in a meaning and constructive way. <BR>> Not just in <BR>> the US, but on an international level as well. I find it very <BR>> unfortunatethat a number of people have not had the courage <BR>> (phrase of your choice <BR> > here) to actually contact me directly or debate in any meaningful <BR>> way the <BR>> issues at hand. I think you need to take a good hard look at the <BR>> agendayour working from and join a team, maybe not my team but to <BR>> become a part of <BR>> the solution to the problem. <BR>> <BR>> My first reaction to all of this was, to borrow a turn of prhase <BR>> from my <BR>> English friends to tell you all to .... but common sense <BR>> prevailed. Am I <BR>> angry yes, am I frustrated by the ingratititude that I have seen <BR>> in the last <BR>> six months yes, am I going to walk away from it all, not a ....... <BR>> chance. <BR>> <BR>> For those who are not aware let me first give you an idea of the <BR>> voluntaryroles I hold in this space: <BR>> <BR>> Founding and current president of ATHEN <BR>> Technology Advisor to AHEAD <BR>> Chair of the AHEAD E-Text Initiative <BR> > Post-secondary representative to the NIMAS development committee. <BR>> <BR>> I have devoted the last 15 years of my life to try to overcome the <BR>> marginalization of people with disabilities in the postsecondary <BR>> space. I <BR>> made the move back into this arena for what were at the time very <BR>> personalreasons, but it is decision I will never look a back on. <BR>> I made my most <BR>> recent carreer change based on not what was best for me alone, but <BR>> what I <BR>> felt at the time on what was best for my moving our agenda <BR>> forward. <BR>> <BR>> If you do not like it, then tough, nobody said life was fair. If <BR>> you want <BR>> to engage me in a legitimate conversation about the issues, <BR>> wonderful. If <BR>> you are concerned about my being a wolf in the henhouse, then <BR>> let's talk <BR>> about it. Otherwise help me contribute to finding a solution and <BR>> put your <BR> > petty self serving issues to the side. <BR>> <BR>> Ron Stewart <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: athen-bounces@athenpro.org [mailto:athen- <BR>> bounces@athenpro.org] On <BR>> Behalf Of Terri Hedgpeth <BR>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 3:48 PM <BR>> To: Access Technologists in Higher Education Network <BR>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story <BR>> <BR>> Ron, this is interesting considering your current position in a <BR>> commercial AT company. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Dr. Terri Hedgpeth <BR>> Academic Research Professional <BR>> CUbiC #376, iCare <BR>> (480) 727-8133 V <BR>> (480) 965-1885 Fax <BR>> CUbiC.asu.edu <BR>> http://www.fulton.asu.edu/fulton/ <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: athen-bounces@athenpro.org [mailto:athen- <BR>> bounces@athenpro.org] On <BR>> Behalf Of Ron Stewart <BR> > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:52 AM <BR>> To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' <BR>> Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story <BR>> <BR>> John, <BR>> <BR>> This obviously is a topic that is going nowhere, I feel I have clearly <BR>> stated my position on this particular topic and the use of any <BR>> automatedtool for access checking on numerous occasions. I think <BR>> my contribution <BR>> to the professional body of knowledge in this field is beyond <BR>> question,but <BR>> then perhaps that is just my opinion as well. <BR>> <BR>> Ron Stewart <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: athen-bounces@athenpro.org [mailto:athen- <BR>> bounces@athenpro.org] On <BR>> Behalf Of John Foliot - Stanford Online Accessibility Program <BR>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 11:21 AM <BR>> To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' <BR> > Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story <BR>> <BR>> Ron Stewart wrote: <BR>> > After having conversations with several folks in the know, who <BR>> also <BR>> > share my concerns, this product typically results in <BR>> segregationist <BR>> > practices of access. That is a step backward in the minds of <BR>> many of <BR>> > those who have worked in this field for an extended period of time. <BR>> > That is the basis of my concerns, that and the promises made and <BR>> never <BR>> > delivered reality of how Hi-Soft chooses to do typically do <BR>> > business. <BR>> <BR>> Ron, <BR>> <BR>> You, as I, are entitled to an opinion, and a frank and open airing of <BR>> these opinions can be a benefit to any list member who wishes to weigh <BR>> the pros and cons. Having worked in the web accessibility field <BR>> for over <BR> > 8 years now, I am hardly a neophyte when it comes to this topic. Your <BR>> suggestion that the implementation of a QA tool that when used <BR>> properlycan be of great assistance, is a "step backward" is <BR>> opinionatedhyperbole that should be recognized as such. Please, <BR>> if you wish to <BR>> contribute to the general body of knowledge, explain your concern: <BR>> whatexactly does using this tool do that creates "...segregationist <BR>> practices...", and then please explain how the tool (as opposed to an <BR>> ill-informed or improperly trained operator) causes this problem. <BR>> <BR>> *In Your Opinion* HiSoftware's sales practices go against your grain, <BR>> that's fair, but I also have first hand knowledge that the company <BR>> consists of caring and reasonable people who have accessibility <BR>> concernsin their agenda. Mr. Yonaitis has given freely of his <BR>> time and <BR> > knowledge for many years, and HiSoftware hosts and funds the "Cynthia <BR>> Says" online tester, which, while not perfect, has done a lot to <BR>> informand aid beginning web authors seeking to create accessible <BR>> content. <BR>> <BR>> Slavish reliance on any one tool can be dangerous, as with only one <BR>> hammer, everything becomes a nail. But the tool can be a valuable <BR>> assetin the hands of informed developers and educators, and your <BR>> continuedinsistence that it is somehow "evil" is simply not fair. <BR>> <BR>> Respectfully, <BR>> <BR>> JF <BR>> --- <BR>> John Foliot <BR>> Academic Technology Consultant <BR>> Stanford Online Accessibility Program <BR>> http://soap.stanford.edu <BR>> Stanford University <BR>> 560 Escondido Mall <BR>> Meyer Library 181 <BR>> Stanford, CA 94305-3093 <BR>> Tel: 650-862-4603 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Ron Stewart <BR>> > <BR> > > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: athen-bounces@athenpro.org [mailto:athen-bounces@athenpro.org] <BR>> > On Behalf Of John Foliot - Stanford Online Accessibility Program <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:49 AM <BR>> > To: 'Access Technologists in Higher Education Network' <BR>> > Subject: Re: [Athen] Interesting New story <BR>> > <BR>> > Ron Stewart wrote: <BR>> >> Morning, <BR>> >> We have talked about automated web compliance tools in the <BR>> past, but <BR>> >> this article I find bothersome since I feel it is a major step <BR>> >> backwards on accessibility in what I was hoping was going to be <BR>> a <BR>> >> progressive approach to systemic access. <BR>> >> <BR>> http://business.itbusinessnet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=115414>> This is a great tool in an informed hand, but in the wrong hands it <BR> > >> is a disaster as many of us have seen. Ron <BR>> > <BR>> > Attn: Chicken Littles on this list, <BR>> > <BR>> > Those in the know already understand the issues with automated <BR>> > testing. Yet, this article clearly indicates that, <BR>> "...HiSoftware's <BR>> > solutions are part of our multi-prong strategy for checking the <BR>> > accessibility of Web sites in a scalable manner." [David Ernst, <BR>> CIO <BR>> > and Assistant Vice Chancellor of Information Technology Services at <BR>> > CSU] <BR>> > <BR>> > "...*PART* of a multi-prong strategy..."(!!!) Having worked <BR>> with this <BR>> <BR>> > tool in the past (and in the interest of disclosure I have a <BR>> former <BR>> > business relationship with Hisoftware) I can assert that the <BR>> tool can <BR>> > be a powerful tool for tracking and monitoring existing and new <BR> > > content. It is not a magic bullet, nor a panacea that will <BR>> instantly <BR>> > fix all problems, but it *is* a great QA tracking tool that can <BR>> aid in <BR>> <BR>> > identifying accessibility and compliance issues. The tool <BR>> combines <BR>> > both an automated checker as well as an "interview wizard" <BR>> > which walks content authors through the various accessibility <BR>> > checkpoints (Section 508 or WCAG) and allows them to check/test <BR>> for <BR>> > compliancy. The enterprise edition can run scheduled tests on <BR>> > multiple and disparate web sites, and forward reports to a <BR>> central <BR>> > location (if desired) - allowing for example web accessibility <BR>> > specialists to identify areas of concern, and perhaps even seek <BR>> out <BR>> > the "offending" author and educate them on why they have a problem <BR>> > and teach them how to fix it. <BR> > > <BR>> > I cannot for the life of me see how adding this QA tool to the <BR>> suite <BR>> > of accessibility development assets available to CSU webmasters <BR>> is a <BR>> > "backward step". Let's be fair here... <BR>> > <BR>> > JF <BR>> > --- <BR>> > John Foliot <BR>> > Academic Technology Consultant <BR>> > Stanford Online Accessibility Program <BR>> > http://soap.stanford.edu <BR>> > Stanford University <BR>> > 560 Escondido Mall <BR>> > Meyer Library 181 <BR>> > Stanford, CA 94305-3093 <BR>> > Tel: 650-862-4603 <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > Athen mailing list <BR>> > Athen@athenpro.org <BR>> > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________ <BR> > > Athen mailing list <BR>> > Athen@athenpro.org <BR>> > http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> Athen mailing list <BR>> Athen@athenpro.org <BR>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> Athen mailing list <BR>> Athen@athenpro.org <BR>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> Athen mailing list <BR>> Athen@athenpro.org <BR>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> Athen mailing list <BR>> Athen@athenpro.org <BR>> http://athenpro.org/mailman/listinfo/athen_athenpro.org <BR>> </BODY> --Boundary_(ID_kV5+FEXAqPLJsTdCJODYhw)-- --Boundary_(ID_k+yEPec3+fziH//3V9TinA) Content-type: text/x-vcard; name=lornas.vcf; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: attachment; filename=lornas.vcf Content-description: Card for Lorna Saiz <lornas@csufresno.edu> begin:vcard n:Saiz;Lorna fn:Lorna M. Saiz tel;pager:TTY 559 278-3084 tel;fax:559.278.4214 tel;work:559.278.2811 url:http://www.csufresno.edu/ssd org:California State University, Fresno Division of Student Affairs;Services for Students with Disabilities adr:;;University Center Bldg Room 5 5240 N. Jackson Av, ML 125;Fresno;CA;93740-8023;U.S.A. version:2.1 email;internet:lornas@csufresno.edu title:Administrative Systems Operations, Assistive Technology Coordinator end:vcard --Boundary_(ID_k+yEPec3+fziH//3V9TinA)-- ]