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<p>ATHENites:</p>
<p>Thanks for patience. Likely this was clear, but I wanted to be
sure.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I wrote, in part:</p>
<p>"And when I write a Word document, I never use more than one
heading. But..."</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>What I *meant* to write was that I never use more than one
heading at level 1 in a Word doc. I try, as I imagine we all do,
to use heading styles in Word to create an outline.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Inaccurate, despite proofreading!</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Jennifer</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/25/2017 7:04 PM, Jennifer Sutton
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a04b4959-6808-ffa4-ef89-67360deb8422@gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<p>I suppose I would go with what Gaeir said. I should *think*
there'd be less need for multiple h1s in Word and PDFs, but
that's based on my experience. Your mileage may vary.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
I would *imagine* multiple h1s might not be ideal from a visual
standpoint, whether on web or in documents, but I suppose that'd
depend on your documentation settings/ability to control.<br>
<br>
When I see multiple h1s on a web page, especially, I pretty much
figure that whoever's built it doesn't actually know anything
about using headings to convey structure/meaning, so my sense of
how they're using headings is called into question. Or I might
know enough to figure out that the system they're using didn't
give them control. I'm less suspicious of multiples of other
heading levels, beyond 1. And when I write a Word document, I
never use more than one heading. But this could all just be one
person's experience.<br>
<br>
What I would say is that, in my experience (both my lived
experience and my experience of working with developers and
content creators), consistency is really helpful within a site or
document for *everyone*.<br>
<br>
What I was trying to get at was that you seem clear on the web,
and I don't think it's as cut and dry as I would expect Word and
PDFs to be., given that the issue's been being debated for years.<br>
<br>
My point is that everyone wants a one-size-fits-all solution, and
it doesn't really work like that in my experience of the real
world, i.e. across websites, LMSs, CMSs on various platforms, and
documents. Now, if your office has the power to enforce something
campus-wide . . . but that's not been feasible/realistic in my
world.<br>
It all depends on which "rigidity" battles you choose to/are able
to fight.<br>
<br>
In my experience, accessibility is as much about philosophy as it
is about checkpoints/*current*/feasible best practices. If
somebody's going to create wide-reaching guidance, then I think it
helps to know the risks and realities of the debates.<br>
<br>
I am sorry that my detailed response may have confused you; I'll
remember that people on this list tend to prefer less minutia than
I'm inclined to give. It's not a problem; I just need to curb my
tendencies to share history/speak/raise issues from that
standpoint.<br>
<br>
Good luck.<br>
Jennifer<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/25/2017 6:20 PM, Preast, Vanessa
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Should
I take this to mean that it is OK to apply Heading 1 more
than once in a Word document as long as one does so
consistently?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Vanessa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
athen-list [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman13.u.washington.edu">mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman13.u.washington.edu</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jennifer Sutton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 25, 2017 3:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><athen-list@u.washington.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Heading 1 best practice:
document vs web<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>For my money, best practices for documents are clearer than
they are for the web. See citations of recent discussions,
below. I believe it's critical to be realistic when it comes
to heading recommendations, especially on the web.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Basically, I think there are a lot bigger "accessibility
fish to fry" than trying to be absolutely rigid about the
idea of one h1 on a webpage.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I think it's hard, and not realistic, to have a
one-size-fits-all rule on the web, given the use of content
management systems. So, for the web, I focus on the idea of
*consistent* use of headings, and that benefits everyone,
including those who are in charge of style sheets.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>But for documents, my tendency would be to say: "if it
works like a book, make it work like a book . . . i.e. h1 is
your title, so there should be only one." Documents are much
easier to control, or, they *can* be, depending on tools and
competency. Given all of the document checkers and toolbars
for accessibility that are around, they should be helping
make Word documents and PDFs better.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Jennifer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Three citations, mostly web-focused and two of the three
based on recent discussions of trying to automate headings:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>The myth of automated heading outlines<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sarahebourne.posthaven.com/the-myth-of-automated-heading-outlines">http://sarahebourne.posthaven.com/the-myth-of-automated-heading-outlines</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>The Document Outline Dilemma:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://css-tricks.com/document-outline-dilemma/">https://css-tricks.com/document-outline-dilemma/</a><br>
[longer than the citation above, but includedto help
understand that this is not simple/clearcut and why, imo]<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">A page in a WAI tutorial, in progress:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/page-structure/headings/">http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/page-structure/headings/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/25/2017 12:42 PM, Preast, Vanessa wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I’m
trying to put together a best practice handbook for our
stakeholders. While H1 use is clear for webpages, I have
not really been able to get a consensus answer on using
Heading 1 in documents. Is Heading 1 always only used
once to mark the title, or can it be used multiple times
in a Word document? If the former, it seems to not fit
well with the auto-generated table of contents, which
pulls in H1, H2 and H3 by default…. What about book
chapters vs book title?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">True
or False?</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">
Heading 1 can be used multiple times within a MS Word
document assuming the rest of the headings are nested
appropriately. (Unlike a webpage which only uses Heading
1 once per page).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">If
there is a definitive answer on using Headings in
documents, can you refer me to them? I want to make sure
I’m providing the best information.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Vanessa</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>athen-list mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
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