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At some point, in the future, I believe, ePub will become the norm.
First, two things need to happen, the readers need to become ubiquitous.
Edge reading ePub's will help, but still need to go some. Secondly, there
need to be good solutions to the page numbering problem.<br><br>
Twenty, or twenty-five years ago if publishers had said we will only give
you PDF's, you would have been outraged.<br><br>
ePub's are easier to make accessible, at least for the publishers, and
have advantages like text reflow. <br><br>
None of this solves your problems today -- this is a transition
time.<br><br>
Dave<br><br>
At 09:43 AM 7/12/2018, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Content-Language: en-US<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br>
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boundary="_000_DM5PR03MB332162925A7CE86996F987B0FB590DM5PR03MB3321namp_"<br>
<br>
With all due respect, Rachel…you are speaking from the perspective of a
publisher. You don’t know our students. You don’t know
our needs, or theirs. You don’t know how frustrating it is for us
in the business of creating accessible content to have to jump through a
thousand hoops just to be able to give a student what they need to get
through their reading. You are making non-information-based
assumptions about our students and how they need to access
materials. Let me lay it out for you:<br>
<br>
1. You just said that we need to have
a special reader to read ePubs. Whether that is YET ANOTHER APP or
program, or another plugin, you are asking our students to do YET ONE
MORE THING to have access to the materials their other classmates have
access to readily and easily and without plugins, programs, or other
hoops to jump through.<br>
2. You assume every student is using
Kurzweil or Read and Write Gold. What? WHAT?? Do you even do
research on what people are using to read with before you make these
assumptions?<br>
3. Vitalsource? Give me a
break. The quality of files on there leave a LOT to be desired.
<br>
4. Vital Source, ADE, Kobo, Amazon
Kindle, etc. are all forcing people to be locked into a particular
platform and a particular method of access. Additionally, not a single
one of these platforms contain ALL of the materials a student may need to
access throughout their career. So, they need to have an app or
program or login to a platform for each and every thing, and each one may
be different. i.e., if it is this kind of file, you open this
program. If it is this other kind of file, you open this OTHER
program. And here, here’s ANOTHER file that you need this other
app to be able to use. And this one needs a login to an online source, so
make sure you have the Internet before you try to read it!<br>
5. How do ANY of these platforms give
us access for students who are blind? Is there Braille in
there? Nice clean text/Word files they can access with a screen
reader? Perfectly tagged HTML that will never barf and always has
images alt-tagged and all data behind graphics outlined clearly? I’m
just betting not. You assume it’s just “no big thing” to have
a blind student need to download another thing, to access this thing,
that a screen reader may or may not be able to navigate. Again,
making assumptions about what our students need or want.<br>
<br>
Please understand, Rachel, that we are in the business of
legally-mandated provision of alternate format for our students.
We’re not arguing for the provision of perfectly tagged PDFs from
publishers to serve all students. We, as providers, are asking that
you continue to provide us with the PDFs we can use to create the format
THAT THE STUDENT NEEDS. We are, at our very base, doing what we do
for STUDENTS. Publishers are doing what they need to do for
PROFITS. We are coming from two different places, but we just wish
publishers would stop pushing formats on us that our students do not need
or want, or have trouble accessing. <br>
<br>
Please, just give us PDFs when we ask for them. Is that really so
hard? Keep producing all the locked in, need-yet-another-app-to
read stuff you want and putting it out there, but when we, the providers
for students with disabilities, ask for a file we can work with to create
accessible format for a student, can you just give us that thing?
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<b>From:</b> athen-list
<athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Rachel Comerford<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 11, 2018 7:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> athen-list@u.washington.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws
to read?<br>
<br>
Hi Susan!<br>
Adobe Digital Editions (ADE) is one of the many readers that will open
epubs. It isn't a proprietary format (although they may have a format
that they push as well). ADE is the platform (like ibooks, kindle,
vitalsource, redshelf, and others) and EPUB is the format of the content
(basically all of the text, design files, navigation files, etc).
Students who use Kurzweil or Read and Write Gold can also open epubs in
those platforms although those companies are in the process of doing some
updating to allow for more ease of use of epub.<br>
<br>
My favorite epub reader for textbooks is vitalsource. It's free to
download the reader and the company has worked really closely with
Benetech and DAISY to build an accessible ebook reader. There are a lot
of good ones out there though. <br>
<br>
I wholeheartedly believe that PDFs were a good solution for students
using AT but EPUBs are a better one. The accessibility metadata that can
be built into them, the clear navigation without remediation, and the
ability to resize and reflow text (no more horizontal scrolling!!) are
just a few reasons.<br>
<br>
Just my 2 cents in case it helps. I know there will be some talk about
this at AHEAD and AHG this year - maybe we'll get a chance to meet
there!<br>
<br>
If the file is DRM'd - have you tried reaching out through BookShare or
AccessText Network for a file that isn't? I know we provide DRM-free
files via those libraries... I'm sure other publishers do to.<br>
<br>
Rachel<br>
<br>
Rachel Comerford | Senior Director of Content Standards and Accessibility
| T 212.576.9433 <br><br>
<b>Macmillan Learning<br>
</b> <br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 17:44:33 +0000<br>
From: Susan Kelmer
<<a href="mailto:Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu">
Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu</a>><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">
athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to<br>
read?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:DM5PR03MB3321CC468FEC9FDAE6F3E22AFB440@DM5PR03MB3321.namprd03.prod.outlook.com">
DM5PR03MB3321CC468FEC9FDAE6F3E22AFB440@DM5PR03MB3321.namprd03.prod.outlook.com</a>
><br><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br><br>
Removing DRM to produce an accessible file for a student with a
disability is legally allowed. Converting any type of file to
another type of file for accessibility purposes is legally
allowed.<br><br>
We are not "illegals!"<br><br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
University of Colorado Boulder<br>
303-735-4836<br><br>
<br><br>
From: athen-list
<<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu">
athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> On Behalf Of
<a href="mailto:chagnon@pubcom.com">chagnon@pubcom.com</a><br>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 11:40 AM<br>
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">
athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to
read?<br><br>
FYI, DRM (digital rights management) was developed to protect the
copyright and control the distribution of the content.<br>
Be careful what you post on a public list! <grin><br><br>
- - -<br>
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO |
Bevi@PubCom.com<<a href="mailto:Bevi@PubCom.com" eudora="autourl">
mailto:Bevi@PubCom.com</a>><br>
- - -<br>
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing<br>
consulting * training * development * design * sec. 508 services<br>
Upcoming classes at
<a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses">
www.PubCom.com/classes</a>
<<a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses">
http://www.PubCom.com/classes</a>><br>
- - -<br><br>
<br>
From: athen-list
<<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu">
athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On
Behalf Of Susan Kelmer<br>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 12:20 PM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">
athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to
read?<br><br>
Thanks, Bevi. I will likely be experimenting with some cracking, to
see if I can get it out of DRM.<br><br>
I've had success in the past doing this. This will be no
different.<br><br>
-Susan<br><br>
From: athen-list
<<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu">
athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On
Behalf Of
<a href="mailto:chagnon@pubcom.com">chagnon@pubcom.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:chagnon@pubcom.com" eudora="autourl">
mailto:chagnon@pubcom.com</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 10:01 AM<br>
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">
athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to
read?<br><br>
Adobe Digital Editions is a proprietary eBook format (not EPUB) that does
indeed require software or plug-ins in order to access the file.<br><br>
Since its proprietary rather than open source, we generally stay away
from it. Plus, Adobe charges a small fortune to developers to create and
publish titles in Adobe Digital Editions.<br><br>
And it's not EPUB, the universal open source ebook reader file format
that pretty much anyone can open on any device.<br><br>
Adobe's website does say it is now accessible. See
<a href="https://www.adobe.com/solutions/ebook/digital-editions.html">
https://www.adobe.com/solutions/ebook/digital-editions.html</a><br><br>
- - -<br>
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO |
Bevi@PubCom.com<<a href="mailto:Bevi@PubCom.com" eudora="autourl">
mailto:Bevi@PubCom.com</a>><br>
- - -<br>
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing<br>
consulting * training * development * design * sec. 508 services<br>
Upcoming classes at
<a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses">
www.PubCom.com/classes</a>
<<a href="http://secure-web.cisco.com/1fPUvjX9jiMIJMlgPZfalTDuqonDjkDCjL_1-xyRROP-epedYN3ZF8eWpxwLvkq-mbtdMmZVNI1QW0X3m3NyxiB_r1vyLsMypmPJ6hITcaZsPvEUw2ygWovsqJUfGgTrY8hqL9JHdHQ4u7YYztxqR46IcpBd-_6C_COQlPuls5MAaoDzY4M-FAiqP-McYNcCUuq2X60RnXytBPU9P64kaOhpWodRLmuU4irYx1cXiH4GoAZ5nyEsia220xQFXXYpAsyM2cwYDjVwSjWzERGL3v2gMA0YWy9OrIDxgihRUaTKZ1Y76bU_R5Km9UoVGpqSOL9mrx34SR9ue8Em5xiS2AalJtmmVdFAT52LaKQfHqzlSLuz3m7pqLrf9t2o9d1Qm7r3dUdjWvnFX_pzigCLVXa0dUYcoXsCPcnzA6_vssGKgHJpThqfczezxTK3Rjby6l5t_BpYfWC-TuVZV261d9A/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.PubCom.com%2Fclasses">
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1fPUvjX9jiMIJMlgPZfalTDuqonDjkDCjL_1-xyRROP-epedYN3ZF8eWpxwLvkq-mbtdMmZVNI1QW0X3m3NyxiB_r1vyLsMypmPJ6hITcaZsPvEUw2ygWovsqJUfGgTrY8hqL9JHdHQ4u7YYztxqR46IcpBd-_6C_COQlPuls5MAaoDzY4M-FAiqP-McYNcCUuq2X60RnXytBPU9P64kaOhpWodRLmuU4irYx1cXiH4GoAZ5nyEsia220xQFXXYpAsyM2cwYDjVwSjWzERGL3v2gMA0YWy9OrIDxgihRUaTKZ1Y76bU_R5Km9UoVGpqSOL9mrx34SR9ue8Em5xiS2AalJtmmVdFAT52LaKQfHqzlSLuz3m7pqLrf9t2o9d1Qm7r3dUdjWvnFX_pzigCLVXa0dUYcoXsCPcnzA6_vssGKgHJpThqfczezxTK3Rjby6l5t_BpYfWC-TuVZV261d9A/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.PubCom.com%2Fclasses</a>
><br>
- - -<br><br>
<br>
From: athen-list
<<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu">
athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On
Behalf Of Susan Kelmer<br>
Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 10:51 AM<br>
To:
<a href="mailto:ALTMEDIA@LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET">
ALTMEDIA@LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET</a>
<<a href="mailto:ALTMEDIA@LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET" eudora="autourl">
mailto:ALTMEDIA@LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET</a>>; Access Technology Higher
Education Network
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">
athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu>>;
athes@lists.colorado.edu</a>
<<a href="mailto:athes@lists.colorado.edu" eudora="autourl">
mailto:athes@lists.colorado.edu</a>><br>
Subject: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to
read?<br><br>
Sorry for the cross-posting...some of you may see this more than
once.<br><br>
A colleague brought this to my attention. My understanding was that
Jaws could read EPUBs already, but one she just received from a publisher
requires the download/installation/use of Adobe Digital Editions in
addition to Jaws to read.<br><br>
Is this new, or have I missed something? Since publishers are now
foisting ePubs onto us, I need to know if we are going to run into these
types of problems. "It will work, but, you need this thing and
this thing and this other thing too..."<br><br>
My biggest gripe is needing to give students yet another way they have to
read their materials, when what they had in the first place was working
just fine before publishers decided to take it upon themselves to tell us
what our students need and want.<br><br>
Susan Kelmer<br>
Alternate Format Production Program Manager<br>
Disability Services<br>
University of Colorado Boulder<br>
303-735-4836<br><br>
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