<div dir="ltr">Hi Rebecca<div><br></div><div>Check out messages no. 1 and no. 9</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>Iza</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><b>Iza Bartosiewicz | <span style="font-size:12.8px">Web Coordinator</span></b><div>Internet Services, Library and Student Success</div><div><br></div><div>Building 94, 23 Cardigan Street</div><div>Carlton VIC 3053</div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Tel. +61 3 9925 3103</span><br></div><div><a href="mailto:iza.bartosiewicz@rmit.edu.au" target="_blank">iza.bartosiewicz@rmit.edu.au</a></div><div><a href="http://www1.rmit.edu.au/library" target="_blank">www.rmit.edu.au/</a></div><div><a href="http://twitter.com/Mr0wka18" target="_blank">@Mr0wka18</a></div><div><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/izabartosiewicz" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/izabartosiewicz</a></div><div><br></div><div><i>RMIT University acknowledges the Kulin Nations as the traditional
custodians of the land on which the University stands. RMIT University
respectfully acknowledges Elders both past and present.</i><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu">athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>></span><br>Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 at 05:04<br>Subject: athen-list Digest, Vol 152, Issue 4<br>To: <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br></div><br><br><div>Send athen-list mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Alternate format textbook sources<br>
(Tristen Breitenfeldt (Wipro Ltd.))<br>
2. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Robert Spangler)<br>
3. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Karlen Communications)<br>
4. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Robert Spangler)<br>
5. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Andrea L. Dietrich)<br>
6. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Robert Spangler)<br>
7. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Andrea L. Dietrich)<br>
8. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Robert Spangler)<br>
9. Re: Alternate format textbook sources (Joseph Polizzotto)<br>
10. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Andrea L. Dietrich)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 12:41:55 -0700<br>
From: "Tristen Breitenfeldt \(Wipro Ltd.\)"<br>
<<a href="mailto:tristenbreitenfeldt@gmail.com" target="_blank">tristenbreitenfeldt@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate format textbook sources<br>
Message-ID: <003001d443be$2c1974a0$844c5de0$@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
While I was a student, I checked a couple different sources for accessible<br>
textbook formats before approaching the DRC at my college. <br>
I checked the following places:<br>
iBooks (from Apple)<br>
Kindle (from Amazon)<br>
BARD (from the National Library Service for the Blind)<br>
Audible.com<br>
BookShare<br>
<br>
These are all accessible sources for books. Sometimes my books were<br>
available and sometimes not. Sometimes I could get the right book in the<br>
wrong edition, which meant getting approval from my instructor.<br>
Yes, these are sources that Alternative Formats offices can also<br>
investigate, but I am a strong believer in encouraging students to exhaust<br>
the available options, doing some "leg work" on their own first. It is a<br>
little extra work for students to investigate these avenues on their own,<br>
but believe it or not having the ability to find my own accessible materials<br>
was extremely empowering and provided me with skills that have helped me in<br>
my career. I'm pretty sure that most students would feel similarly after<br>
finding their own books.<br>
I'm not saying that the Alt Formats office was unnecessary; quite the<br>
opposite in fact, because I frequently relied on them as my backup plan if I<br>
couldn't find the books I needed in an accessible format, or if I needed<br>
certain parts of a book in another format such as braille or tactile<br>
graphics. I also depended on the nudging and encouragement from my DRC<br>
counselor encouraging me to explore these other options, even when it was<br>
easier for me to get all my books from the Alt Formats office.<br>
<br>
Have a great day!<br>
<br>
Tristen Breitenfeldt<br>
Accessibility Tester/Trainer<br>
Wipro/Microsoft<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> On Behalf<br>
Of <a href="mailto:athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
Sent: Monday, September 3, 2018 12:00 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><br>
Subject: athen-list Digest, Vol 152, Issue 3<br>
<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 12:43:05 -0700<br>
From: Shelley Haven <<a href="mailto:ShelleyHaven@techpotential.net" target="_blank">ShelleyHaven@techpotential.net</a>><br>
To: ATHEN <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate format textbook sources<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6B753ABB-AD87-4082-B3A6-C423FFF69A7C@techpotential.net" target="_blank">6B753ABB-AD87-4082-B3A6-C423FFF69A7C@techpotential.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Check CAST?s webpage on ?Digital Content & Media Sources? (part of their<br>
extensive AEM section) for other sources you might want to add to your list:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV" target="_blank">http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV</a><br>
0o<br>
<<a href="http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2U" target="_blank">http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2U</a><br>
V0o><br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Shelley<br>
<br>
_____________________________<br>
Shelley Haven ATP, RET<br>
Assistive Technology Consultant<br>
<a href="http://www.TechPotential.net" target="_blank">www.TechPotential.net</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Hegney, Shaun <<a href="mailto:Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu" target="_blank">Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello all,<br>
<br>
I am doing a little research as I am trying to find more sources for<br>
alternate format textbooks as it seems like our college is using less common<br>
or harder to get books. Especially as we add increasingly niche courses. I<br>
have been sourcing most of my books from Access Text, Book Share and<br>
publishers directly. I have also used the Louis Database (I have found a few<br>
braille books this way).<br>
<br>
If you have any other, sources please share your experience. In addition, I<br>
am interested in hearing if anyone has found a membership to the access text<br>
exchange worthwhile.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Shaun Hegney<br>
Program Specialist 2<br>
Disability Support Services<br>
Spokane Falls Community College<br>
(509)-533-3544<br>
<a href="mailto:Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu" target="_blank">Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu" target="_blank">Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:09:48 -0400<br>
From: Robert Spangler <<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAA6y2T71f4exnfK-qeVKuQvbBeb6vHsydn2apW8y4dxjYLx_nQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAA6y2T71f4exnfK-qeVKuQvbBeb6vHsydn2apW8y4dxjYLx_nQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe<br>
calls Bookmarks?<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <<br>
<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of<br>
> HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading<br>
> from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the<br>
> Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF<br>
> documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it<br>
> is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or<br>
> comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note<br>
> or comment and the ?text on the page.?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the<br>
> content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged<br>
> correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are<br>
> working from.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers, Karen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader<br>
> user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most<br>
> accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found<br>
> a way to edit PDFs directly.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately,<br>
> I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the<br>
> text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if<br>
> there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to<br>
> determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the<br>
> administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer<br>
> classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task<br>
> ultimately falls to me!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working<br>
> with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems<br>
> with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not<br>
> always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my<br>
> students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient<br>
> for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Looking forward to responses.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Robert<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:28:26 -0400<br>
From: "Karlen Communications" <<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>><br>
To: "'Access Technology Higher Education Network'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
Message-ID: <001101d4445b$8bba1d90$a32e58b0$@<a href="http://karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">karlencommunications.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers. Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to provide consistent navigational tools.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers, Karen<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe calls Bookmarks?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>> > wrote:<br>
<br>
Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note or comment and the ?text on the page.?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are working from.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers, Karen<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> > On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>> ><br>
Subject: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found a way to edit PDFs directly.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately, I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task ultimately falls to me!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Looking forward to responses.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>> <br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302 <br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
athen-list mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> <br>
<a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>> <br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302 <br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
<br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:53:57 -0400<br>
From: Robert Spangler <<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAA6y2T6aUqu1HFye4QtHRzRD_5-VBfyo99=1ExfVSOgBzC4=<a href="mailto:uA@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">uA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so<br>
this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker<br>
available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into<br>
chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there<br>
are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in<br>
Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I<br>
then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.<br>
<br>
Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find<br>
the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this<br>
another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use<br>
screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at<br>
times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall<br>
every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for<br>
reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document<br>
like a text file.<br>
<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <<br>
<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you<br>
> are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word<br>
> 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to<br>
> what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged<br>
> PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is<br>
> also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to<br>
> 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a<br>
> Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers.<br>
> Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an<br>
> <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent<br>
> <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH><br>
> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on<br>
> the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way<br>
> to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or<br>
> if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another<br>
> topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat<br>
> Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make<br>
> anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to<br>
> provide consistent navigational tools.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers, Karen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe<br>
> calls Bookmarks?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <<br>
> <a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of<br>
> HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading<br>
> from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the<br>
> Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF<br>
> documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it<br>
> is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or<br>
> comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note<br>
> or comment and the ?text on the page.?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the<br>
> content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged<br>
> correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are<br>
> working from.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers, Karen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader<br>
> user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most<br>
> accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found<br>
> a way to edit PDFs directly.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately,<br>
> I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the<br>
> text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if<br>
> there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to<br>
> determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the<br>
> administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer<br>
> classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task<br>
> ultimately falls to me!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working<br>
> with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems<br>
> with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not<br>
> always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my<br>
> students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient<br>
> for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Looking forward to responses.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Robert<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 15:00:08 +0000<br>
From: "Andrea L. Dietrich" <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:BN1PR04MB389340BAFB8CD0475239D06B8030@BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">BN1PR04MB389340BAFB8CD0475239D06B8030@BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports all the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file individually, in my experience.<br>
<br>
Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m sighted.<br>
<br>
Good luck!<br>
<br>
-Andi :)<br>
<br>
--------------------------<br>
Andrea Dietrich<br>
Cornell University<br>
Student Disability Services<br>
Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
110 Ho Plaza<br>
Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu/" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu/</a>><br>
<br>
Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
<br>
Office Hours:<br>
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.<br>
<br>
Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document like a text file.<br>
<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.<br>
<br>
Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.<br>
<br>
Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers. Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.<br>
<br>
When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to provide consistent navigational tools.<br>
<br>
Cheers, Karen<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe calls Bookmarks?<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note or comment and the ?text on the page.?<br>
<br>
While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are working from.<br>
<br>
You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.<br>
<br>
Cheers, Karen<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Hello:<br>
<br>
I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found a way to edit PDFs directly.<br>
<br>
Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately, I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.<br>
<br>
Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task ultimately falls to me!<br>
<br>
I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to responses.<br>
<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
athen-list mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
athen-list mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 11:24:07 -0400<br>
From: Robert Spangler <<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAA6y2T4CZYFZ3jdVBUKT49VZLy5xuMWH4jHQFDGQ2X37dOLUQQ@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAA6y2T4CZYFZ3jdVBUKT49VZLy5xuMWH4jHQFDGQ2X37dOLUQQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
Thank you! Where can I find this setting? Worth looking into.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:13 AM Andrea L. Dietrich <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can<br>
> tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports all<br>
> the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader<br>
> but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file individually,<br>
> in my experience.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m<br>
> sighted.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Good luck!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -Andi :)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --------------------------<br>
><br>
> Andrea Dietrich<br>
><br>
> Cornell University<br>
><br>
> Student Disability Services<br>
><br>
> Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
><br>
> 110 Ho Plaza<br>
><br>
> Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
><br>
> Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Office Hours:<br>
><br>
> Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
><br>
> Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so<br>
> this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker<br>
> available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into<br>
> chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there<br>
> are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in<br>
> Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I<br>
> then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find<br>
> the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this<br>
> another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use<br>
> screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at<br>
> times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall<br>
> every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for<br>
> reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document<br>
> like a text file.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Robert<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <<br>
> <a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you<br>
> are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word<br>
> 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to<br>
> what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged<br>
> PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is<br>
> also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to<br>
> 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a<br>
> Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers.<br>
> Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an<br>
> <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent<br>
> <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH><br>
> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on<br>
> the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way<br>
> to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or<br>
> if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another<br>
> topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat<br>
> Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make<br>
> anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to<br>
> provide consistent navigational tools.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers, Karen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe<br>
> calls Bookmarks?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <<br>
> <a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of<br>
> HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading<br>
> from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the<br>
> Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF<br>
> documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it<br>
> is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or<br>
> comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note<br>
> or comment and the ?text on the page.?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the<br>
> content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged<br>
> correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are<br>
> working from.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers, Karen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader<br>
> user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most<br>
> accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found<br>
> a way to edit PDFs directly.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately,<br>
> I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the<br>
> text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if<br>
> there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to<br>
> determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the<br>
> administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer<br>
> classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task<br>
> ultimately falls to me!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working<br>
> with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems<br>
> with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not<br>
> always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my<br>
> students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient<br>
> for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Looking forward to responses.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Robert<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 16:16:00 +0000<br>
From: "Andrea L. Dietrich" <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:BN1PR04MB389F16C0ECD166BF4FC0ABDB8030@BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">BN1PR04MB389F16C0ECD166BF4FC0ABDB8030@BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
In Acrobat Pro 2017, it?s under ?Tools, Organize Pages, Split.?<br>
<br>
Then you have to change the settings under Split from ?Number of Pages? to ?Top Level Bookmarks.? If you want, under Output Options, there is a setting ?Use bookmark names for file names.? You can ONLY choose that if you?ve already chosen ?Top Level Bookmarks? for your splitting option, though. Otherwise it?s greyed out and you can?t select it.<br>
<br>
Typically, when I?m splitting a PDF, I?ll go through and bookmark the beginning of each chapter, then use the file splitting to make my chapters. It?s quicker than exporting or printing each chapter manually.<br>
<br>
-Andi :)<br>
<br>
--------------------------<br>
Andrea Dietrich<br>
Cornell University<br>
Student Disability Services<br>
Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
110 Ho Plaza<br>
Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu/" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu/</a>><br>
<br>
Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
<br>
Office Hours:<br>
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:24 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Thank you! Where can I find this setting? Worth looking into.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:13 AM Andrea L. Dietrich <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports all the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file individually, in my experience.<br>
<br>
Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m sighted.<br>
<br>
Good luck!<br>
<br>
-Andi :)<br>
<br>
--------------------------<br>
Andrea Dietrich<br>
Cornell University<br>
Student Disability Services<br>
Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
110 Ho Plaza<br>
Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu/" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu/</a>><br>
<br>
Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
<br>
Office Hours:<br>
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.<br>
<br>
Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document like a text file.<br>
<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.<br>
<br>
Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.<br>
<br>
Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers. Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.<br>
<br>
When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to provide consistent navigational tools.<br>
<br>
Cheers, Karen<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe calls Bookmarks?<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note or comment and the ?text on the page.?<br>
<br>
While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are working from.<br>
<br>
You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.<br>
<br>
Cheers, Karen<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Hello:<br>
<br>
I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found a way to edit PDFs directly.<br>
<br>
Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately, I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.<br>
<br>
Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task ultimately falls to me!<br>
<br>
I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to responses.<br>
<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<br>
<br>
--<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
athen-list mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>><br>
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<br>
<br>
--<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
athen-list mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
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<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:34:55 -0400<br>
From: Robert Spangler <<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a>><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAA6y2T4apDM8BmoNULF5LcuRpPNdvsTRL9EAReFCeqTVQR8qOw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAA6y2T4apDM8BmoNULF5LcuRpPNdvsTRL9EAReFCeqTVQR8qOw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Awesome! Does anyone know if this same process is possible in Abbyy and<br>
how to do it if it is?<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 12:25 PM Andrea L. Dietrich <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> In Acrobat Pro 2017, it?s under ?Tools, Organize Pages, Split.?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Then you have to change the settings under Split from ?Number of Pages? to<br>
> ?Top Level Bookmarks.? If you want, under Output Options, there is a<br>
> setting ?Use bookmark names for file names.? You can ONLY choose that if<br>
> you?ve already chosen ?Top Level Bookmarks? for your splitting option,<br>
> though. Otherwise it?s greyed out and you can?t select it.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Typically, when I?m splitting a PDF, I?ll go through and bookmark the<br>
> beginning of each chapter, then use the file splitting to make my chapters.<br>
> It?s quicker than exporting or printing each chapter manually.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -Andi :)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --------------------------<br>
><br>
> Andrea Dietrich<br>
><br>
> Cornell University<br>
><br>
> Student Disability Services<br>
><br>
> Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
><br>
> 110 Ho Plaza<br>
><br>
> Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
><br>
> Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Office Hours:<br>
><br>
> Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
><br>
> Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:24 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thank you! Where can I find this setting? Worth looking into.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:13 AM Andrea L. Dietrich <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can<br>
> tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports all<br>
> the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader<br>
> but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file individually,<br>
> in my experience.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m<br>
> sighted.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Good luck!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -Andi :)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --------------------------<br>
><br>
> Andrea Dietrich<br>
><br>
> Cornell University<br>
><br>
> Student Disability Services<br>
><br>
> Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
><br>
> 110 Ho Plaza<br>
><br>
> Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
><br>
> Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Office Hours:<br>
><br>
> Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
><br>
> Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so<br>
> this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker<br>
> available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into<br>
> chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there<br>
> are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in<br>
> Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I<br>
> then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find<br>
> the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this<br>
> another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use<br>
> screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at<br>
> times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall<br>
> every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for<br>
> reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document<br>
> like a text file.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Robert<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <<br>
> <a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you<br>
> are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word<br>
> 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to<br>
> what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged<br>
> PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is<br>
> also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to<br>
> 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a<br>
> Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers.<br>
> Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an<br>
> <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent<br>
> <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH><br>
> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on<br>
> the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way<br>
> to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or<br>
> if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another<br>
> topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat<br>
> Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make<br>
> anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to<br>
> provide consistent navigational tools.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers, Karen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe<br>
> calls Bookmarks?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <<br>
> <a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of<br>
> HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading<br>
> from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the<br>
> Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF<br>
> documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it<br>
> is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or<br>
> comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note<br>
> or comment and the ?text on the page.?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the<br>
> content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged<br>
> correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are<br>
> working from.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Cheers, Karen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> *On<br>
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler<br>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM<br>
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader<br>
> user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most<br>
> accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found<br>
> a way to edit PDFs directly.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately,<br>
> I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the<br>
> text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if<br>
> there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to<br>
> determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the<br>
> administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer<br>
> classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task<br>
> ultimately falls to me!<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working<br>
> with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems<br>
> with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not<br>
> always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my<br>
> students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient<br>
> for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Looking forward to responses.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Robert<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Robert Spangler<br>
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
> <a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
> Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
><br>
> Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
><br>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
><br>
> Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302<br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<br>
Fax: 937-229-3270<br>
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<br>
Web Site: <a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><br>
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Message: 9<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 09:45:57 -0700<br>
From: Joseph Polizzotto <<a href="mailto:jpolizzotto@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">jpolizzotto@berkeley.edu</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate format textbook sources<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAGQNLEV=<a href="mailto:fmY6dDhG7CsXwQdKOtf_TsM1Qty%2BnnUQSc9kmW2KJw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">fmY6dDhG7CsXwQdKOtf_TsM1Qty+nnUQSc9kmW2KJw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi ATHEN List:<br>
<br>
I have attached the "Sources of E-Text" table that was compiled previously<br>
at the HTCTU.<br>
<br>
I would also add to this list Internet Archive <<a href="https://archive.org/" target="_blank">https://archive.org/</a>> , who<br>
has recently launched a pilot program with AHEAD members to give students'<br>
direct access to their holdings. See the following:<br>
<br>
Internet Archive Pilot Project<br>
<<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JhY8UNo7oP8G5l41wN59syqA3B_Frp-29iF4d5ZVuts/edit" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JhY8UNo7oP8G5l41wN59syqA3B_Frp-29iF4d5ZVuts/edit</a>><br>
<br>
For audio versions of public domain titles, also don't forget about LibriVoX<br>
<<a href="https://librivox.org/" target="_blank">https://librivox.org/</a>> .<br>
<br>
Respectfully,<br>
<br>
Joseph<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 12:46 PM Tristen Breitenfeldt (Wipro Ltd.) <<br>
<a href="mailto:tristenbreitenfeldt@gmail.com" target="_blank">tristenbreitenfeldt@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi,<br>
> While I was a student, I checked a couple different sources for accessible<br>
> textbook formats before approaching the DRC at my college.<br>
> I checked the following places:<br>
> iBooks (from Apple)<br>
> Kindle (from Amazon)<br>
> BARD (from the National Library Service for the Blind)<br>
> Audible.com<br>
> BookShare<br>
><br>
> These are all accessible sources for books. Sometimes my books were<br>
> available and sometimes not. Sometimes I could get the right book in the<br>
> wrong edition, which meant getting approval from my instructor.<br>
> Yes, these are sources that Alternative Formats offices can also<br>
> investigate, but I am a strong believer in encouraging students to exhaust<br>
> the available options, doing some "leg work" on their own first. It is a<br>
> little extra work for students to investigate these avenues on their own,<br>
> but believe it or not having the ability to find my own accessible<br>
> materials<br>
> was extremely empowering and provided me with skills that have helped me in<br>
> my career. I'm pretty sure that most students would feel similarly after<br>
> finding their own books.<br>
> I'm not saying that the Alt Formats office was unnecessary; quite the<br>
> opposite in fact, because I frequently relied on them as my backup plan if<br>
> I<br>
> couldn't find the books I needed in an accessible format, or if I needed<br>
> certain parts of a book in another format such as braille or tactile<br>
> graphics. I also depended on the nudging and encouragement from my DRC<br>
> counselor encouraging me to explore these other options, even when it was<br>
> easier for me to get all my books from the Alt Formats office.<br>
><br>
> Have a great day!<br>
><br>
> Tristen Breitenfeldt<br>
> Accessibility Tester/Trainer<br>
> Wipro/Microsoft<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> On Behalf<br>
> Of <a href="mailto:athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-request@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> Sent: Monday, September 3, 2018 12:00 PM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><br>
> Subject: athen-list Digest, Vol 152, Issue 3<br>
><br>
><br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 12:43:05 -0700<br>
> From: Shelley Haven <<a href="mailto:ShelleyHaven@techpotential.net" target="_blank">ShelleyHaven@techpotential.net</a>><br>
> To: ATHEN <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate format textbook sources<br>
> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6B753ABB-AD87-4082-B3A6-C423FFF69A7C@techpotential.net" target="_blank">6B753ABB-AD87-4082-B3A6-C423FFF69A7C@techpotential.net</a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
><br>
> Check CAST?s webpage on ?Digital Content & Media Sources? (part of their<br>
> extensive AEM section) for other sources you might want to add to your<br>
> list:<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a href="http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV" target="_blank">http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV</a><br>
> 0o<br>
> <<a href="http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV0o" target="_blank">http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV0o</a>><br>
> <<br>
> <a href="http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2U" target="_blank">http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2U</a><br>
> V0o<br>
> <<a href="http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV0o" target="_blank">http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV0o</a>><br>
> ><br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> Shelley<br>
><br>
> _____________________________<br>
> Shelley Haven ATP, RET<br>
> Assistive Technology Consultant<br>
> <a href="http://www.TechPotential.net" target="_blank">www.TechPotential.net</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Hegney, Shaun <<br>
> <a href="mailto:Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu" target="_blank">Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hello all,<br>
><br>
> I am doing a little research as I am trying to find more sources for<br>
> alternate format textbooks as it seems like our college is using less<br>
> common<br>
> or harder to get books. Especially as we add increasingly niche courses. I<br>
> have been sourcing most of my books from Access Text, Book Share and<br>
> publishers directly. I have also used the Louis Database (I have found a<br>
> few<br>
> braille books this way).<br>
><br>
> If you have any other, sources please share your experience. In addition,<br>
> I<br>
> am interested in hearing if anyone has found a membership to the access<br>
> text<br>
> exchange worthwhile.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Shaun Hegney<br>
> Program Specialist 2<br>
> Disability Support Services<br>
> Spokane Falls Community College<br>
> (509)-533-3544<br>
> <a href="mailto:Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu" target="_blank">Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu" target="_blank">Shaun.Hegney@sfcc.spokane.edu</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> athen-list mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
> <a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
*Alternate Media Supervisor*<br>
Disabled Students' Program<br>
University of California, Berkeley<br>
<a href="https://dsp.berkeley.edu/" target="_blank">https://dsp.berkeley.edu/</a><br>
<<a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdsp.berkeley.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4e0abffcb5b34567a22308d5e13137b3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636662523854357148&sdata=yB5%2BUm2W6TBwpc%2BOF4DvN8wPoo1dozUwz8eCepYhTyY%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdsp.berkeley.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C4e0abffcb5b34567a22308d5e13137b3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636662523854357148&sdata=yB5%2BUm2W6TBwpc%2BOF4DvN8wPoo1dozUwz8eCepYhTyY%3D&reserved=0</a>><br>
(510) 642-0329<br>
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Message: 10<br>
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 17:33:31 +0000<br>
From: "Andrea L. Dietrich" <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>><br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network<br>
<<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:BN1PR04MB389E814428041DDF067F33CB8030@BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com" target="_blank">BN1PR04MB389E814428041DDF067F33CB8030@BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I looked for a similar setting in ABBYY but I haven?t found one. If anyone else knows of one, please share!<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Andi :)<br>
<br>
--------------------------<br>
Andrea Dietrich<br>
Cornell University<br>
Student Disability Services<br>
Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
110 Ho Plaza<br>
Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu/" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu/</a>><br>
<br>
Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
<br>
Office Hours:<br>
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 12:35 PM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Awesome! Does anyone know if this same process is possible in Abbyy and how to do it if it is?<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 12:25 PM Andrea L. Dietrich <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
In Acrobat Pro 2017, it?s under ?Tools, Organize Pages, Split.?<br>
<br>
Then you have to change the settings under Split from ?Number of Pages? to ?Top Level Bookmarks.? If you want, under Output Options, there is a setting ?Use bookmark names for file names.? You can ONLY choose that if you?ve already chosen ?Top Level Bookmarks? for your splitting option, though. Otherwise it?s greyed out and you can?t select it.<br>
<br>
Typically, when I?m splitting a PDF, I?ll go through and bookmark the beginning of each chapter, then use the file splitting to make my chapters. It?s quicker than exporting or printing each chapter manually.<br>
<br>
-Andi :)<br>
<br>
--------------------------<br>
Andrea Dietrich<br>
Cornell University<br>
Student Disability Services<br>
Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
110 Ho Plaza<br>
Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu/" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu/</a>><br>
<br>
Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
<br>
Office Hours:<br>
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:24 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Thank you! Where can I find this setting? Worth looking into.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:13 AM Andrea L. Dietrich <<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu" target="_blank">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>
For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports all the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file individually, in my experience.<br>
<br>
Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m sighted.<br>
<br>
Good luck!<br>
<br>
-Andi :)<br>
<br>
--------------------------<br>
Andrea Dietrich<br>
Cornell University<br>
Student Disability Services<br>
Cornell Health, Level 5<br>
110 Ho Plaza<br>
Ithaca, NY 14853<br>
<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu</a><<a href="http://sds.cornell.edu/" target="_blank">http://sds.cornell.edu/</a>><br>
<br>
Tel. 607.254.4545<br>
Fax. 607.255.1562<br>
<br>
Office Hours:<br>
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM<br>
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.<br>
<br>
Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document like a text file.<br>
<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.<br>
<br>
Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.<br>
<br>
Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers. Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.<br>
<br>
When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to provide consistent navigational tools.<br>
<br>
Cheers, Karen<br>
<br>
From: athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler<br>
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM<br>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader<br>
<br>
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe calls Bookmarks?<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:info@karlencommunications.com" target="_blank">info@karlencommunications.com</a>></div></div></div></div>