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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I do have to disagree with you on page numbers for college students, at least at this point in time. Until MLA, APA, Harvard, and Chicago stop requiring page
numbers in their references, college students need them. I have been marked down on papers I’ve turned in because I didn’t have a page number for the citation in my “accessible” resource.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">While younger folks are used to digital materials without page numbers (even I am), college instructors aren’t. I still get syllabi with reading assignments that
only include page numbers, not chapters. How is a student supposed to do the correct reading if they cann’t find the page numbers?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">So, there will have to be a shift in mind set with instructors and people developing the format guidelines before we can forget page numbers. Otherwise, students
with disabilities will be at a great disadvantage.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Otherwise, I agree with you and Susan completely.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Just to clarify, breaking DRM is only legal when being done to provide accessible materials for individuals with disabilities. It is not legal for just anybody
to break DRM for the purpose of modifying materials in any other context that I am aware of.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Robert Lee Beach<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Assistive Technology Specialist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Kansas City Kansas Community College<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">7250 State Avenue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Kansas City, KS 66112<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Phone: 913-288-7671<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Email:
<a href="mailto:rbeach@kckcc.edu"><span style="color:#0563C1">rbeach@kckcc.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dan Comden<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 7, 2018 12:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I don't (regularly) do accessible text conversions.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm with Susan. Publishers (punishers?) will lose that fight. Bring it. The truly awesome number of crappy content that students are asked to deal with is staggering. Publishers should be helping this, not making it worse. If they really
wanted to fix this, they would. (personal opinion begins) but they're in denial over the model of printed textbooks continuing to be the rule. Yes, students still prefer printed books, (and some of our own research supports that) but someone is going to figure
out how to make digital versions work well and they will own the space.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And where I depart from many is the idea of the print page number...give it a rest. Give headings (unique) instead. These kids are used to dealing with digital delivery in formats like Kindle. Absolute position is what matters, not a print
page number that is irrelevant for someone using screenreader or magnifcation.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Likely we need a new method but print page numbers are going to really passe soon.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">-*- Dan<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Susan Kelmer <<a href="mailto:Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu" target="_blank">Susan.Kelmer@colorado.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">George, perhaps you have time to hound publishers about removing DRM and other protections.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I take in over 500 requests for textbooks a semester, more than half of those in the first two weeks
of classes (I crossed the 300 mark today). Having ongoing arguments with publishers is a waste of my time, and I do what needs to be done to get the job done (and files out to the student). We turn around most books (even ones we have to scan or the bookshare
files we have to correct) in four days. Our max stated goal is two weeks. I am not messing around. A student without their reading materials is dead in the water, and I cannot and will not allow that to happen.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It is, actually, quite legal to crack DRM, using whatever tools are available. And I will continue
to do it, for the betterment of my students.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">No student should have to wait an extra week while I have a back-and-forth argument with a publisher
about whatever DRM they attached or whatever password they put on it or whatever watermark they put on and think we cannot remove.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I crack it, produce the files in the needed format, and move on. I literally do not have time to educate
a publisher, who should really know better, that they are making our lives difficult. They can choose to do what they are going to do. I, too, can choose to do what I’m going to do to circumnavigate whatever roadblocks they have thrown up.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Susan Kelmer</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Alternate Format Production Program Manager</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Disability Services</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">University of Colorado Boulder</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">303-735-4836</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>George Kerscher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 06, 2018 3:21 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>To:</b> 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yes, you do have the right and obligation to make educational materials accessible.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I would think that the publisher made a mistake by sending you a protected PDF. I suggest you recontact them and
ask for an unprotected version.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Also, the DMCA makes it illegal to produce software intended for defeating DRM. The promotion of cracking tools is
also a violation, but I am not a lawyer.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We have been working hard with publishers to make their publications born accessible, and we have seen many advances,
and we still have a long way to go. Starting to crack protected content is not something we should promote.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I removed the link to the cracking software from the original post below.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">George</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Kelmer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">You have a legal right to crack the PDF to do what you need to do. My favorite cracker is this one:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Susan Kelmer</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Alternate Format Production Program Manager</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Disability Services</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">University of Colorado Boulder</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">303-735-4836</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Spangler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 06, 2018 10:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu" target="_blank">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hello, if I receive a secured PDF from a publisher, how can I circumvent this to be able to break it into chapters?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Robert<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Robert Spangler<br>
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist<br>
<a href="mailto:rspangler1@udayton.edu" target="_blank">rspangler1@udayton.edu</a><br>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023<br>
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)<br>
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302 <br>
Phone: 937-229-2066<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Fax: 937-229-3270<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">Web Site:
<a href="http://go.udayton.edu/learning" target="_blank">http://go.udayton.edu/learning</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
athen-list mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
<a href="http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list" target="_blank">http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">-*- Dan Comden
<a href="mailto:danc@washington.edu" target="_blank">danc@uw.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Access Technology Center
<a href="http://www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/" target="_blank">www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> University of Washington UW Information Technology</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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