<html>
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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<p>Bevi's detailed response covers most questions raised - and more.
I would add a small clarification to the thread about AxesPDF
QuckFix along with a couple additional notes about software
offerings.</p>
<p>Mark wrote:<br>
</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote type="cite">We are exploring the use of AxesPDF (<a
href="https://www.axes4.com/" target="_blank">https://www.axes4.com/</a>).
It doesn’t require Acrobat Pro, and in my experience is easier to
use than Acrobat Pro. <br>
</blockquote>
<p>While AxesPDF Quick Fix does not require Acrobat Professional, it
is not intended as a replacement for all the PDF editing
capabilities of Acrobat Professional. It makes "remediating" PDFs
easier: it performs some fixes very quickly - often with one click
of a button. And it provides a better interface for editing tag
properties than Acrobat does. But if you are trying to edit a
poorly built PDF to make it accessible, then you will find that
there are some essential functions that still require Acrobat
Professional. A couple critical examples include: inserting new
tags, changing the order of tags, or changing the level of nested
tags.</p>
<p>So yes, CommonLook PDF is installed as a plug-in to Acrobat
Professional, so you will need Acrobat even to install it. But
realistically, you will find that you need Acrobat Professional to
use alongside AxesPDF QuickFix as well even though axesPDF
QuickFix installs as a stand-alone program.</p>
<p>Bevi wrote:<br>
</p>
<p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<ul type="disc">
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">CommonLook PDF, is especially
good with correcting tables. And you need training in how
to use it.</span></li>
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">AxesPDF Quick Fix is meh, IMHO.
And you need training in how to use it.</span><br>
</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
I have used AxesPDF extensively and am happy with it, but I don't
doubt Bevi's asssessment of it as compared to CommonLook PDF. I
would note, however, that the pricing of CommonLook can be
difficult to discover (no prices are listed on their website) and
that if you are not a non-profit or government agency, their
pricing is prohibitively expensive in some cases. In my case, the
annual price of CommonLook PDF quoted to me was quite literally
more than 10 times the published price of a license for AxesPDF
QuickFix.</p>
<p>CommonLook PDF: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://commonlook.com/accessibility-software/pdf/">https://commonlook.com/accessibility-software/pdf/</a><br>
</p>
<p>axesPDF QuickFix: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.axes4.com/axespdf-quickfix-overview.html">https://www.axes4.com/axespdf-quickfix-overview.html</a></p>
<p>Lastly, while not necessarily the right choice for many, there
are Microsoft Word add-ins from each of the two companies listed
above. With the right training, and with the right templates, each
of these add-ins can make it possible to generate fully
accessible, PDF/UA compliant PDFs directly from Microsoft Word,
without needing Acrobat Professional. Bevi notes that Microsoft
Word can create a generally accessible PDF from a basic file.
These add-ins improve the output from a Word file to make it more
fully comply with the current standards. Though both of these
add-ins cost about the same as a license for Microsoft Office
itself.<br>
</p>
<p>axesPDF for Word: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.axes4.com/axespdf-for-word-overview.html">https://www.axes4.com/axespdf-for-word-overview.html</a></p>
<p>CommonLook Office: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://commonlook.com/accessibility-software/office/">https://commonlook.com/accessibility-software/office/</a><br>
</p>
Phil.
<p>Philip Kiff <br>
D4K Communications<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2020-12-07 22:09, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:foreigntype@gmail.com">foreigntype@gmail.com</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALiy=stXnZiRywVKNLFqJuWpFOXXQiovy45A7_vCRdyGRAV-Lg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Thanks for a good, detailed and honest response
Bevi. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Wink</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 5:03
PM <<a href="mailto:chagnon@pubcom.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">chagnon@pubcom.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-1148410253555647444WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Andrea
D. asked:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">“</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Are there any good tools to
use if you’re forced to start with a PDF file?”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Note:
this is a long, detailed answer.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Sure, but it’s going to
depend on:</span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" type="1" start="1">
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">How complex the document
is, </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"></span></li>
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Whether it was created in
InDesign, Word, or PowerPoint … or something else.
Reading orders get botched up with documents from
InDesign and PowerPoint, unless the creator has
had specific training in how to make them
accessible. And those from non-Adobe/non-Microsoft
programs just don’t get accessibility at all and
are a ripping mess to correct.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"></span></li>
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:0in"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">And whether it has maths
and STEM in it.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"></span></li>
</ol>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Therefore, there is no
magic wand that will fix all your files with one
magic keystroke.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Today, anyone using MS Word
should be able to generate a simple accessible Word
document and matching accessible PDF without any
extra effort, other than using a good accessible
Word template and having a 2-3 hour training session
in how to do it. It’s not rocket science! </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Stop the hemorrhaging of
your institution’s funds! Get your staff trained
immediately and reduce the drain of money and time.
Remediate the original source file when you can, and
especially if it will be re-used later for another
document. Invest your time wisely for maximum
benefit.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">OK, <b>so when you can’t
remediate the source file and it’s a doozie of a
PDF</b>, some of the tools we find helpful are:</span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Acrobat’s built-in
remediation tools, like AutoTag and Preflight. And
you need training in how to use them.</span></li>
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">CommonLook PDF, is
especially good with correcting tables. And you
need training in how to use it.</span></li>
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">AxesPDF Quick Fix is meh,
IMHO. And you need training in how to use it.</span></li>
<li class="m_-1148410253555647444MsoListParagraph"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-left:3.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Outside remediation
cloud-based technologies. Today, vendors are
crawling out of the woodwork claiming that their A
I (artificial intelligence) will magically create
accessible PDFs in seconds and cost you pennies.
Artificial Intelligence is not yet very
intelligent, especially for those problematic
documents. We still need humans to determine
what’s in a PDF, how it should be tagged and
presented, and what a logical reading is for that
document. My firm recommends only a handful of
companies to our clients, and if you’re
interested, contact me off list for our
recommendations. I’m not here in Athen to promote
one over the other.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt"></span></li>
</ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt">Bottom line: start fixing
the problem rather than buying expensive band aids.
Otherwise you’ll eventually run out of money.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"
style="word-wrap:break-word" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-1148410253555647444WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#d0cece">—
— —</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bevi Chagnon <b><span
style="color:#aeaaaa">| </span></b><span
style="color:#595959">Designer, Accessibility
Technician</span><b><span style="color:#aeaaaa"> |</span></b>
<a href="mailto:Chagnon@PubCom.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563c1">Chagnon@PubCom.com</span></a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#d0cece">—
— —</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>PubCom: <span
style="color:#c00000">Technologists for
Accessible Design + Publishing</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">consulting <span
style="color:#d0cece">•</span> training <span
style="color:#d0cece">•</span> development <span
style="color:#d0cece">•</span> design <span
style="color:#d0cece">•</span> sec. 508 services</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Upcoming classes</b> at <a
href="http://www.pubcom.com/classes"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563c1">www.PubCom.com/<b>classes</b></span></a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#d0cece">—
— —</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://mailchi.mp/e694edcdfadd/class-discount-3266574"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563c1">Latest blog-newsletter</span></a>
– <b><a
href="https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_07-20/alt-text_part-1.shtml"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563c1">Simple Guide to Writing
Alt-Text</span></a></b> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Andrea L. Dietrich
<<a href="mailto:adietrich@cornell.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">adietrich@cornell.edu</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 7, 2020 4:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:chagnon@pubcom.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chagnon@pubcom.com</a>;
Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a
href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] -
Accessible PDFs without Acrobat</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Using
Microsoft’s built-in tools is great if you’re
starting from scratch building the document. But
often we work on remediating preexisting PDF files
(I work a lot with document conversion for students,
and we get publisher PDFs.) Are there any good tools
to use if you’re forced to start with a PDF file? Or
is it better to convert the PDF to Word, fix up the
order and such, and then turn that into a PDF?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">-Andi
:)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> athen-list <<a
href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a
href="mailto:chagnon@pubcom.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chagnon@pubcom.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 7, 2020 3:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Access Technology Higher Education
Network' <<a
href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] -
Accessible PDFs without Acrobat</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We find that Microsoft’s built-in
PDF export utility (in Office 365) does a much better
job, comparable to Acrobat’s PDF Maker plug-in which
comes with Acrobat Pro.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In most cases, MS’s matches
Acrobat’s conversion. And it’s free.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But your IT department will have to
make sure they keep MS Office up to date: earlier
versions of their PDF export utility were awful.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Another alternative is FoxIt’s PDF
plugin, but given that FoxIt makes the one built into
Microsoft Office, why would you pay for what’s
essentially the same product?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Question: wouldn’t it make more
sense (and cents!) to train your faculty and staff in
how to make accessible documents? Doing the job right
from the start is always more cost effective than
remediating everything after it’s made.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It’s a teach-a-person-to-fish
strategy.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#d0cece">—
— —</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bevi Chagnon <b><span
style="color:#aeaaaa">| </span></b><span
style="color:#595959">Designer, Accessibility
Technician</span><b><span style="color:#aeaaaa"> |</span></b>
<a href="mailto:Chagnon@PubCom.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Chagnon@PubCom.com</a> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#d0cece">—
— —</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>PubCom: <span
style="color:#c00000">Technologists for
Accessible Design + Publishing</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">consulting <span
style="color:#d0cece">•</span> training <span
style="color:#d0cece">•</span> development <span
style="color:#d0cece">•</span> design <span
style="color:#d0cece">•</span> sec. 508 services</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Upcoming classes</b> at <a
href="http://www.pubcom.com/classes"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.PubCom.com/<b>classes</b></a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#d0cece">—
— —</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://mailchi.mp/e694edcdfadd/class-discount-3266574"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Latest
blog-newsletter</a> – <b><a
href="https://www.pubcom.com/blog/2020_07-20/alt-text_part-1.shtml"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Simple
Guide to Writing Alt-Text</a></b> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> athen-list <<a
href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greenfield, Mark<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 7, 2020 11:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education
Network <<a
href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] -
Accessible PDFs without Acrobat</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are exploring the use of AxesPDF
(<a href="https://www.axes4.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.axes4.com/</a>).
It doesn’t require Acrobat Pro, and in my experience
is easier to use than Acrobat Pro. Remediating PDFs
has been an ongoing challenge for us because we don’t
have a campus-wide license for Acrobat Pro and most
faculty don’t have it.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mark </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Mark
A. Greenfield</span><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br>
Web Accessibility Officer</span><span
style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Office
of Equity, Diversity and Inclusion<br>
406 Capen Hall<br>
State University of New York at Buffalo</span><span
style="color:#1f497d"> <br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Buffalo,
N.Y. 14260</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">telephone:
(716)645-2811</span><span style="color:black"> <br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">e-mail: </span><span
style="color:black"><a
href="mailto:markgr@buffalo.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">markgr@buffalo.edu</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">athen-list
<<a
href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
on behalf of "Hayman, Douglass" <<a
href="mailto:dhayman@olympic.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dhayman@olympic.edu</a>><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>Access Technology Higher
Education Network <<a
href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, December 7, 2020 at 11:12 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Access Technology Higher Education
Network <<a
href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Athen] [EXTERNAL] -
Accessible PDFs without Acrobat</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rachel,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My institution provided me with a
laptop to work from home which has both Microsoft
Office and also Acrobat Pro to let me work on
remediation of documents. Are your remote staff
having to use their own computers?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Doug Hayman</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">IT Accessibility Coordinator</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Information Technology</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Olympic College</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="mailto:dhayman@olympic.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">dhayman@olympic.edu</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(360) 475-7632 (currently working
remotely and don’t have access to this phone)</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> athen-list <<a
href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rachel Ford<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 7, 2020 7:56 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] - [Athen] Accessible
PDFs without Acrobat</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:solid #030303 1.0pt;padding:1.0pt
1.0pt 1.0pt 1.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#ffcc66"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">CAUTION:
This email came from a non-OC system or external
source. Beware of phishing and social engineering!</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello All,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">With our faculty working from
home, I’ve run into an issue where some faculty
don’t have access to Acrobat Pro to create
accessible PDFs. Does anyone have a good alternative
to Acrobat or just generally using PDFs? Any
suggestions would be really helpful. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rachel Ford</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Web Accessibility Manager</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Henry Ford College</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Wink Harner Assistive
Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text Production
Portland OR. <a href="mailto:foreigntype@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">foreigntype@gmail.com</a> 480-984-0034</div>
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