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<p>I tried a couple things in the files you sent but I couldn't get
the tag order to generate correctly either: not from the Adobe
Acrobat Pro DC generator nor from the built-in Microsoft Word 365
generator.</p>
<p>Just as an FYI, when I used the axesPDF for Word plugin, the
order *did* come out correctly. And I would bet that it would also
come out correctly using the CommonLook Office plugin (thought I
don't have that one to test).</p>
<p>The Microsoft built-in PDF generator has been getting better and
better these past few years, but generally speaking, both the
axesPDF and CommonLook products do a much better job producing an
accessible, correctly formatted PDF directly from a well-formatted
Word source. <br>
</p>
<p>Phil.</p>
<p>Philip Kiff <br>
D4K Communications</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2021-04-30 21:12, Steve Green wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB9PR09MB49234124B172BFFCEE2962CCC75D9@DB9PR09MB4923.eurprd09.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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medium)">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Welcome
to the weird world of accessible PDFs. I see the same issue
as you, and I have no idea how to fix it in the Word
document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It’s
strange that Acrobat does a better job of tagging. In my
experience, that’s rarely the case. But with accessible
PDFs, there’s an exception to every rule.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> athen-list
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu"><athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joseph Polizzotto MA<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 01 May 2021 00:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"><athen-list@u.washington.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Steve:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your response and for
letting me know about the missing image. That image
displayed the following screenshot of text in a DOCX file:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Boyle's law (where (P is the pressure
and V is the volume)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well, that's really interesting and
good to know about general issues with the Adobe Acrobat
Pro plug-in for MS Word. I will keep that in mind.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">FWIW, I have tried just using the Save
As > PDF route in MS Word to circumvent the issue that
I described but it does not resolve it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Using the Save As > PDF method,
there is a difference in how the tags are created from the
MS Word elements but the <Figure> tags for the
inline images are still not in the correct place; with the
Save As PDF method, in fact, they also come after the
associated <P> tag but are not nested within the
<P> tag, which is the case with the Adobe Acrobat
Pro conversion method. In both cases, remediation would be
time-consuming.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What's interesting is that with both
conversion methods, if I delete the root tag and then add
tags to the document in Adobe Acrobat Pro, the
<Figure> elements are in the right place related to
the <P> tag, just that the alternative text is
missing. It's as if the Adobe Acrobat Pro's "add tags"
feature does a better job of tagging from within than when
it first ingests the DOCX through the MS Word conversion
suite. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am not sure why that is and would be
even willing to delete all the tags, only to add them
back, if it also meant that the alternative text would
automagically reappear again. :-)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Joseph <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 4:13 PM Steve
Green <<a href="mailto:steve.green@testpartners.co.uk"
moz-do-not-send="true">steve.green@testpartners.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">It’s
strange that you should post this message now, because
literally one minute ago I sent a lengthy email to all
our staff explaining why they must not use Adobe
Acrobat Pro's plug-in for MS Word for creating PDFs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">One
of the reasons is that it does not seem to recognise
the “Mark as decorative” checkbox in Word’s Alt Text
pane, and it adds bizarre Alternate Text such as
P1070TB2#y1.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext">Another
issue relates to the use of simple text boxes in Word.
Although we discourage their use, there are times that
you want or need to use them. You can put images in
the textbox, which can potentially cause a problem
because you can add Alt Text to both the image and the
textbox. If you do that, the Acrobat Accessibility
Checker reports a failure due to nested Alternate
Text, which is perfectly reasonable – you can’t have
Alt Text inside other Alt Text.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext">The
“solution” is to mark the text box as decorative and
only add Alt Text to the image. If you “Save as PDF”,
this does exactly what you would expect. The image is
in the Tags panel with its Alternate Text. The text
box is artifacted.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext">You
might expect the Adobe Acrobat Pro plug-in to do the
same, or at least do something intelligent, but it
doesn’t do either of those. It puts both the image and
text box in the Tags panel. As discussed above, it
adds random Alternate Text to the text box. It then
deletes the Alt Text you added to the image, and to
add insult to injury, the Acrobat Accessibility
Checker fails because of the missing Alternate Text!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext">I
have also noticed the sort of issues you reported.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext">For
the time being, my recommendation is to use Word’s
“Save as PDF” feature instead.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="gmail-m-1139208097057728369msoplaintext">BTW,
all the images were missing from your email.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Steve
Green<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Managing
Director<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Test
Partners Ltd<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US">
athen-list <<a
href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joseph Polizzotto MA<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 30 April 2021 23:53<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education
Network <<a
href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Athen] Inline Images and PDF Tags</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hi
Everyone:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
encountered a problem when converting an MS Word
document with inline images using Adobe Acrobat
Pro's plug-in for MS Word. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
problem is that the inline images appear in the
incorrect place within the PDF tags panel.
Specifically, the <Figure> tags for the
inline images are located
<i>after</i> the entire <P> tag with which
they are associated. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Instead
of the MS Word paragraph being broken up into
separate chunks of content within the <P>
PDF tag, the paragraph is contained as one block
of text inside the <P> tag and the inline
images are represented as <Figure> tags
after that block.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">For
example, in the following snippet of an MS Word
document, where P and V are inline images in the
sentence:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">alt=<span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">Boyle's
law (where P is the pressure and V is the
volume)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I
find the following structure in the PDF tags
panel:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><P><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">Boyle's
law (where is the pressure and is the volume)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"><Figure></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif">P</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Cambria",serif"><Figure></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">V<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If
I remove the tags and add them back using Adobe
Acrobat Pro, the <Figure> tags will be in
the correct place, in between the correct blocks
of text, but the alternative text for the images
will be lost. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">This
is the desired tag structure:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><P><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Boyle's
law (where<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><Figure><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">P<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">is
the pressure and<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><Figure><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">V<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">is
the volume<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">What
have you done to address this issue? Is there a
way to avoid having to remediate the PDF tags for
this issue and get the correct tag order for
inline images when using Adobe Acrobat Pro's
plug-in for MS Word?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Note:
I am using my MS Word's 365 (subscription) version
with the continuous release version of Adobe
Acrobat Pro (2021). I have attached the documents
as well. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks
for your help,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Joseph<br
clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">--
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;letter-spacing:.15pt">Alternate
Media Supervisor</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Disabled
Students'
Program</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">University
of California,
Berkeley</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black"><a
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