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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I have no experience of dealing with maths in any document format. I know people who do implement it in PDF, but I don’t know how they do it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There are many types of content and many aspects of accessibility, so a full assessment of all them in all the different document formats would be a substantial piece of work. And some people never
encounter some content types, so some shortcomings of a particular document format may not matter to them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">For instance, in 17 years of doing document remediation, I have never encountered maths, physics or chemical formulae, but I know someone who deals with exam papers who does hundreds of such PDFs
every year. We do a lot of annual financial reports in which every page has a unique, complex layout and dozens of charts, graphs, flowcharts, org charts etc., but some people in the education sector may never have to work on documents like this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Forms are one type of content that PDF can handle very well (if you know what you are doing), but Word handles extremely badly regardless of what you do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">For people who need to use alternative colour themes, Adobe Reader’s colour substitution options for the text and background colours are far better than those in Word.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">For people with low vision, PDF allows reflow options that don’t exist in Word. This means that the zoom level can be increased without limit without a horizontal scrollbar appearing, so you only
need to scroll in one direction. Adobe Reader has a basic reflow capability, while the VIP PDF Reader supports reflow even better. The nearest feature that Word has is the Web Layout, but horizontal scrolling is necessary even at low levels of magnification.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Gardner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 September 2022 23:50<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] article advocating for PDFs in College & Research Libraries News<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Steve, Math can be accessible in Word. How do you make math accessible in PDF?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Green<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 9, 2022 3:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] article advocating for PDFs in College & Research Libraries News<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t agree with Susan’s assessment, other than the article is too short to consider all the aspects of what is a large topic. However, I didn’t see anything that I would consider to be incorrect.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I also think that Susan has set up a false dichotomy between the ease of creating a small, simple accessible Word document and remediating a PDF that was exported from an inaccessible source file. When exporting from Word, the resulting
PDF will be at least as accessible as the Word file and in some ways it will be more accessible. It won’t be less accessible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bear in mind that you never create a document as a PDF. It always starts as some other document format, such as Word, PowerPoint, InDesign etc. If you know how to make the source document accessible and you are happy with that level of
accessibility, the resulting PDF will not need any remediation in Acrobat.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you want to, you can do further remediation in Acrobat such that the PDF achieves a higher level of accessibility than is possible in the source document format. Even if you have done everything possible in Word, you may be able to make
the document even more accessible as a PDF, depending on what the content is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Steve Green<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Managing Director<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Test Partners Ltd<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Susan Kelmer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 09 September 2022 20:36<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] article advocating for PDFs in College & Research Libraries News<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Well, there is some glaring misinformation in there, and definitely too short a piece to be truly useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">Remediating a PDF is difficult and time-consuming, while creating a good quality accessible WORD document is easy and only takes a few steps. That good quality Word file, which only took a few minutes
to create properly, can then be output to multiple formats, including tagged PDF and HTML.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">I am not sure the author really understands what he is talking about.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Susan Kelmer
</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Alternate Format Production Program Manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Disability Services<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">Health and Wellness Services<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#CFB87C">T</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black">303
735 4836</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#CFB87C"><a href="http://www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices"><span style="color:#CFB87C">www.colorado.edu/disabilityservices</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#CFB87C"><o:p><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#CFB87C"><o:p><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif;color:black"><img border="0" width="150" height="56" style="width:1.5625in;height:.5833in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D8C503.549A9420"></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#0070C0"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D">Due to the nature of electronic communication, the security of this message cannot be guaranteed. If you’ve received this email in error please
notify the sender immediately and delete this message. </span></i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Adina Mulliken<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 9, 2022 12:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Athen] article advocating for PDFs in College & Research Libraries News<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;vertical-align:baseline"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black">Sorry, this article might not be the best thing to share on a Friday afternoon, but here it is. I’m not agreeing
with the article. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;vertical-align:baseline"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;vertical-align:baseline"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black">Chee, M., & Weaver, K. (2022). The great PDF debate: Accessible or impossible?. <em><span style="font-family:inherit;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">College
& Research Libraries News, 83</span></em>(8), 363. doi:<a href="https://doi.org/10.5860/crln.83.8.363"><span style="color:#56B0C9;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in">https://doi.org/10.5860/crln.83.8.363</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;vertical-align:baseline"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black">At least the article cites a couple of articles that advocate a different view.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt">Adina<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Adina Mulliken<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Associate Professor, Librarian Silberman Social Work and Urban Public Health Library<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hunter College, City University of New York<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">2180 3<sup>rd</sup> Ave. New York, NY<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Phone 212-396-7665<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Pronouns she/her<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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