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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Voiceover’s behaviour with PDFs in Preview very much depends on the content. I recently did some basic tests using PDFs that we have made to be 100% PDF/UA and WCAG 2.1 AA conformant. I could jump
to the next heading or the next list as expected. However, Voiceover does not announce when lists start or end (which JAWS and NVDA do in Adobe Reader) and it does not announce the nesting of lists (which JAWS and NVDA also do), which has the potential to
render a document incomprehensible. Voiceover does announce the bullets, which is useful up to a point.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">One of the PDFs contained a form that worked perfectly with JAWS and NVDA in Adobe Reader, but not only did it not work correctly with Voiceover in Preview, but Preview modified the file's code so the saved document then didn't work
with Adobe Reader anymore! The file corruption is caused by Preview, not Voiceover.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">My view is that it would be better if Preview didn't try to open PDFs, so Mac users were forced to install Adobe Reader.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Steve Green<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Managing Director<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Test Partners Ltd<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> athen-list <athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Beach<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 27 September 2022 20:23<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list@u.washington.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Athen] [EXT] VoiceOver expert and PDF journal article<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Mark,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">I have a student worker who is good with Mac and VO. He just had a PDF with headings work perfectly in Preview. We are going to look at it again tomorrow. If I think it is working correctly, we can setup a Zoom meeting
with you so you can see what is happening. Do you have a particular PDF we can look at for you and make sure we are covering what you need?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Roboto">Robert Lee Beach<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Roboto">Assistive Technology Specialist</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Roboto"> – Student Accessibility & Support Services<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Roboto"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Roboto">Kansas City Kansas Community College<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Roboto">7250 State Ave. - Suite # 3384 - Kansas City, KS 66112
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Roboto">O 913-288-7671 | F 913-288-7678
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Roboto"><a href="mailto:rbeach@kckcc.edu">rbeach@kckcc.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Roboto"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> athen-list <<a href="mailto:athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu">athen-list-bounces@mailman12.u.washington.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Weiler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 26, 2022 12:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Access Technology Higher Education Network <<a href="mailto:athen-list@u.washington.edu">athen-list@u.washington.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXT][Athen] VoiceOver expert and PDF journal article<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<strong><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#FD542E">CAUTION:</span></strong><strong><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> This email originated outside KCKCC.
Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the content is safe. Please forward all suspicious emails to
<a href="mailto:support@kckcc.edu"><span style="font-weight:normal">support@kckcc.edu</span></a>.</span></strong><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Is there a VoiceOver expert that could meet via Zoom and share your screen and sound as you step through an example of a PDF-based journal article with me?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Checking out things like headings, tables, lists, and reading order.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Mark Weiler, PhD (he & him)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">JAWS certified and Web Accessibility Specialist
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Web & User Experience Librarian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Wilfrid Laurier University<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA">Waterloo, Ontario <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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