[Athen] D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility

Carin Headrick carin.headrick at d2l.com
Tue Aug 5 14:17:14 PDT 2014


It appears this message didn’t go through last week. Hopefully this time, it will. Apologies for the delay in responding.

Carin Headrick
Accessibility Tester
Brightspace by D2L (Desire2Learn Incorporated)
1-519-772-0325 x6514
Carin.Headrick at D2L.com<mailto:Carin.Headrick at D2L.com?subject=Carin.Headrick at d2l.com>
www.brightspace.com<http://www.brightspace.com/>


From: Janna Cameron
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 9:45 AM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'
Subject: RE: [Athen] D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility

Hi all,

We’re aware and actively investigating this issue.

In “account settings” you can globally turn off the WYSIWYG editor and use a textbox instead. NB - You’ll see HTML markup in the original post, if appended.

Janna


[cid:image001.png at 01CFA1DD.DE1ED280]
Janna Cameron
Senior Usability Specialist, Team Lead
Brightspace by D2L<http://www.brightspace.com/> - Desire2Learn Incorporated

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Ron Stewart
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:31 PM
To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'
Subject: Re: [Athen] D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility

I would recommend trying it with WebKit instead of Safari. There seems to be much less of an issue when using the base package instead of the pretty user interface.

Ron Stewart

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Michele Bromley
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:15 AM
To: athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility

Keith, Kenneth, Russell, et al.,
We are dealing with VoiceOver Mac. I've had the opportunity over the last week to do some more digging with regard to this accessibility issue. It appears that the discussion board function in D2L is essentially inaccessible in Safari when using VoiceOver. We found that was it nearly impossible to navigate into the edit text area, and even when students were able to do so with assistance, VoiceOver would not read words out loud as they were typed.
I'm tentatively concluding that this is a VoiceOver/Safari issue since we were able to navigate through the discussion board functions easily using JAWS on a separate computer. Unfortunately, this is still a big issue since many of our students use Macintosh computers.

I'm looking into ChromeVox as a possible alternative--I haven't had a chance yet to take it out for a spin. I'm not currently aware of any other open source screen reading software that works with the most recent Mac operating system.

Thank you for any recommendations!

Michele Joy Bromley
Inclusive Technology Coordinator
Disability Resource Center
Portland State University

Office: 116A SMSU
Phone: (503) 725-8395
Fax: (503) 725-4103
Email: michele.bromley at pdx.edu<mailto:michele.bromley at pdx.edu>
Website: www.pdx.edu/drc<http://www.pdx.edu/drc/adaptive-technology>
Facebook: www.facebook.com/pdxdrc<http://www.facebook.com/pdxdrc>

On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 12:01 PM, <athen-list-request at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-request at mailman13.u.washington.edu>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

1. Re: D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility (Petri, Kenneth)
2. Re: D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility (Russell Solowoniuk)
3. MathType/MathML questions (Susan Kelmer)
4. Re: MathType/MathML questions (Emma Cliffe)
5. Re: MathType/MathML questions (Emma Cliffe)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 22:34:46 +0000
From: "Petri, Kenneth" <petri.1 at osu.edu<mailto:petri.1 at osu.edu>>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility
Message-ID:
<D70BE03EA74F81468EAA4F5320EB7A51746CAF84 at CIO-TNC-D2MBX04.osuad.osu.edu<mailto:D70BE03EA74F81468EAA4F5320EB7A51746CAF84 at CIO-TNC-D2MBX04.osuad.osu.edu>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Michelle,

I would definitely contact D2L directly with any specific issues. They have staff dedicated to accessibility.

OSU runs D2L and I have been involved in helping improve its accessibility over the years. If you can tell me where the student is having issues, I can verify and post an email to the D2L accessibility interest group list ? maybe it should be doing more to verify accessibility on VoiceOver?

As Keith mentioned, it is necessary to know if this is VO Mac or on iOS. In my experience, VO on the Mac is not a terribly good screen reader when using complex web applications. On iOS the implementation is much better (though very different, as well).

But in any case, I?m pretty sure the D2L community would be interested in your student?s experience.

Best,
ken

[The Ohio State University]
Ken Petri, Program Director
Web Accessibility Center, ADA Coordinator's Office and Office for Disability Services
102D Pomerene Hall | 1760 Neil Ave. Columbus, OH 43210
614-292-1760<tel:614-292-1760> Office | 614-218-1499<tel:614-218-1499> Mobile | 614-292-4190<tel:614-292-4190> Fax
petri.1 at osu.edu<mailto:petri.1 at osu.edu><mailto:petri.1 at osu.edu<mailto:petri.1 at osu.edu>> | wac.osu.edu<http://wac.osu.edu><http://wac.osu.edu>

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu>] On Behalf Of Michele Bromley
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 12:50 PM
To: DSSHE-L at listserv.buffalo.edu<mailto:DSSHE-L at listserv.buffalo.edu>; athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Athen] D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility

Hello all,
I'm curious to hear from other schools who are using D2L as a learning management system. We have a blind student who has been having some serious navigation issues with D2L in Safari. VoiceOver is simply not working in some cases. VoiceOver appears to work well with other websites in Safari, so this seems to be a D2L issue.
Has anyone else encountered this problem? Thank you for any recommendations!

Michele Joy Bromley
Inclusive Technology Coordinator
Disability Resource Center
Portland State University

Office: 116A SMSU
Phone: (503) 725-8395<tel:%28503%29%20725-8395>
Fax: (503) 725-4103<tel:%28503%29%20725-4103>
Email: michele.bromley at pdx.edu<mailto:michele.bromley at pdx.edu><mailto:michele.bromley at pdx.edu<mailto:michele.bromley at pdx.edu>>
Website: www.pdx.edu/drc<http://www.pdx.edu/drc><http://www.pdx.edu/drc/adaptive-technology>
Facebook: www.facebook.com/pdxdrc<http://www.facebook.com/pdxdrc><http://www.facebook.com/pdxdrc>


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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:53:38 -0600
From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <SolowoniukR at macewan.ca<mailto:SolowoniukR at macewan.ca>>
To: "Access Technology Higher Education Network"
<athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility
Message-ID: <53CD4592020000EC00031EEB at gatedom2vs.macewan.ca<mailto:53CD4592020000EC00031EEB at gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15

Hi Michelle,

Something you could try is to change the user agent that Safari uses.
To do this you need to go into Safari preferences, choose the "Advanced"
tab, and check the choice to "Show Develop menu in Menubar". Then, on
the menubar, choose Develop, User Agent, and you will see a list of
various user agents, for example, Internet Explorer 8, 9, or 10,
Firefox, Google Chrome, Safari IOS 7 for iPhone, etc. Try experimenting
with different user agents when in the D2L environment and see if any of
them work better.

Hope this helps,

Russell

Russell Solowoniuk
AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
MacEwan University
7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
Edmonton, AB T5J 4S2
E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca<mailto:solowoniukr at macewan.ca>
T: 780-497-5826<tel:780-497-5826>
F: 780-497-4018<tel:780-497-4018>
macewan.ca<http://macewan.ca>
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it
is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged
information. Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended
recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take
action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or
subsequent reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.



>>> "Petri, Kenneth" <petri.1 at osu.edu<mailto:petri.1 at osu.edu>> 7/21/2014 4:34 PM >>>

Michelle,

I would definitely contact D2L directly with any specific issues. They
have staff dedicated to accessibility.

OSU runs D2L and I have been involved in helping improve its
accessibility over the years. If you can tell me where the student is
having issues, I can verify and post an email to the D2L accessibility
interest group list * maybe it should be doing more to verify
accessibility on VoiceOver?

As Keith mentioned, it is necessary to know if this is VO Mac or on
iOS. In my experience, VO on the Mac is not a terribly good screen
reader when using complex web applications. On iOS the implementation is
much better (though very different, as well).

But in any case, I*m pretty sure the D2L community would be
interested in your student*s experience.

Best,
ken

[The Ohio State University]
Ken Petri, Program Director
Web Accessibility Center, ADA Coordinator's Office and Office for
Disability Services
102D Pomerene Hall | 1760 Neil Ave. Columbus, OH 43210
614-292-1760<tel:614-292-1760> Office | 614-218-1499<tel:614-218-1499> Mobile | 614-292-4190<tel:614-292-4190> Fax
petri.1 at osu.edu<mailto:petri.1 at osu.edu><mailto:petri.1 at osu.edu<mailto:petri.1 at osu.edu>> |
wac.osu.edu<http://wac.osu.edu><http://wac.osu.edu>

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu>]
On Behalf Of Michele Bromley
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 12:50 PM
To: DSSHE-L at listserv.buffalo.edu<mailto:DSSHE-L at listserv.buffalo.edu>; athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Athen] D2L/VoiceOver Incompatibility

Hello all,
I'm curious to hear from other schools who are using D2L as a learning
management system. We have a blind student who has been having some
serious navigation issues with D2L in Safari. VoiceOver is simply not
working in some cases. VoiceOver appears to work well with other
websites in Safari, so this seems to be a D2L issue.
Has anyone else encountered this problem? Thank you for any
recommendations!

Michele Joy Bromley
Inclusive Technology Coordinator
Disability Resource Center
Portland State University

Office: 116A SMSU
Phone: (503) 725-8395<tel:%28503%29%20725-8395>
Fax: (503) 725-4103<tel:%28503%29%20725-4103>
Email: michele.bromley at pdx.edu<mailto:michele.bromley at pdx.edu><mailto:michele.bromley at pdx.edu<mailto:michele.bromley at pdx.edu>>
Website: www.pdx.edu/drc<http://www.pdx.edu/drc><http://www.pdx.edu/drc/adaptive-technology>
Facebook: www.facebook.com/pdxdrc<http://www.facebook.com/pdxdrc><http://www.facebook.com/pdxdrc>




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:38:17 -0600
From: Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at Colorado.EDU<mailto:Susan.Kelmer at Colorado.EDU>>
To: "dsshe-l at listserv.buffalo.edu<mailto:dsshe-l at listserv.buffalo.edu>" <dsshe-l at listserv.buffalo.edu<mailto:dsshe-l at listserv.buffalo.edu>>,
"Access Technology Higher Education Network
(athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>)" <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: [Athen] MathType/MathML questions
Message-ID:
<3E04A2F7AAD0E345B673D732D9A53807B5CC0EB9A7 at EXC3.ad.colorado.edu<mailto:3E04A2F7AAD0E345B673D732D9A53807B5CC0EB9A7 at EXC3.ad.colorado.edu>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We are getting a lot of requests for math of late, and this has not been our strong point in production. So, we're still in a bit of a learning mode. We've discovered a few things, and need some help.

When converting to MathPage after editing our Word document using MathType, we are finding two problems:

a. We put page number in the header section of word documents as a matter of routine. The page numbers disappear in the finalized document, and we're not sure why.

b. If we have footnotes (we use the footnote function in Word to create them), the output to MathPage fails.

None of us working on conversions (me or my student staff) are "math people," so we are doing some struggling but making our way through. If someone could help us with these two issues, we'd be grateful!

Susan Kelmer
Alternate Format Coordinator
Disability Services
University of Colorado
303-735-4836

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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:42:30 +0100
From: Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>>
To: athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType/MathML questions
Message-ID: <53CE9476.4060607 at bath.ac.uk<mailto:53CE9476.4060607 at bath.ac.uk>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"


Dear Susan,

If I understand it correctly running conversion to MathPage is using
Word's conversion tools for some of the work. This is likely to be the
issue with the page numbers, as far as I am aware Word does not convert
headers or footers when converting to web formats. This was certainly
true in Word 2003 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/212270 and I imagine
is still the case as one might ask what a header or footer is intended
to be in this format since the whole document is converted to a single
page - I understand why you want the numbers in this case but you'll
have to include them a different way.

I am running Word 2010 with MathType 6.9. The footnotes issue is only
occurring in some conversions and I can explain what is happening and a
nasty fix but it looks like a bug. Not sure whose bug though, could be
Word or MathType. Publish to MathPage you have 5 options for MathML in
6.9 (fewer in earlier versions I imagine). Some of these will not
trigger the bug but they may not be the format you want. Some will
trigger the bug.
1. HTML + MathJax: Produces a .htm file with MathJax handling the
rendering of MathML equations. Will not trigger the bug.
2. XHTML + MathJax: Produces a .xht file with MathJax handling the
rendering of MathML equations. Will trigger the bug.
3. XHTML + MathML: Produces a .xht file with native rendering of the
MathML equations. Will trigger the bug.
4. MathPlayer (IE behavior): Produces a .htm file with equations which
will only be rendered by MathPlayer + IE<10. Will not trigger the bug.
5. Multi-browser (UMSS): Produces a .xht file with equations in MathML
using the universal MathML style sheet. Will trigger the bug.

The bug is that whenever you have a footnote the XML is incorrect and
the bug is only occurring in the xht outputs so it is caused by whatever
is responsible for producing the XML (Word?). E.g. you get:
<p class="MsoFootnoteText"><a href="#_ftnref1"
name="_ftn1" title=""><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><![if
!supportFootnotes]><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font:
minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:
EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA'>[1]</span></span><![endif]></span></a> <a
href="http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/">http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/</a>
</p>

The incorrect portions are:
<![if !supportFootnotes]> which should be <!--[if !supportFootnotes]>
and
<![endif]> which should be <![endif]-->

The only way for you to fix this, that I am aware, is to open up the
exported source in a suitable editor and hand fix all such errors or to
write a script that does this for you.

If anyone else has any ideas or comments on the above it would be great
to hear them. If anyone knows for sure whether this is Word or MathType
then we could also report the issue. I will try and follow it up with
some contacts I have who may be able to shed some light but this could
take some time.

Kind regards,
Emma

On 22/07/2014 16:38, Susan Kelmer wrote:

>

> We are getting a lot of requests for math of late, and this has not

> been our strong point in production. So, we're still in a bit of a

> learning mode. We've discovered a few things, and need some help.

>

> When converting to MathPage after editing our Word document using

> MathType, we are finding two problems:

>

> a.We put page number in the header section of word documents as a

> matter of routine. The page numbers disappear in the finalized

> document, and we're not sure why.

>

> b.If we have footnotes (we use the footnote function in Word to create

> them), the output to MathPage fails.

>

> None of us working on conversions (me or my student staff) are "math

> people," so we are doing some struggling but making our way through.

> If someone could help us with these two issues, we'd be grateful!

>

> /Susan Kelmer/

>

> /Alternate Format Coordinator/

>

> /Disability Services/

>

> /University of Colorado/

>

> /303-735-4836/

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> athen-list mailing list

> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>

> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list


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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:51:37 +0100
From: Emma Cliffe <E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk<mailto:E.H.Cliffe at bath.ac.uk>>
To: athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] MathType/MathML questions
Message-ID: <53CE9699.6090109 at bath.ac.uk<mailto:53CE9699.6090109 at bath.ac.uk>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"


Hi Susan,

Sorry for a second mail, that fixes the bug but leaves the footnote link
an empty string. You would also need to add something in to (from the
example below):
<a href="#_ftnref1"
name="_ftn1" title=""><span class="MsoFootnoteReference">
e.g
<a href="#_ftnref1"
name="_ftn1" title="">link<span class="MsoFootnoteReference">
so that the footnote link was visible and clickable.

Kind regards,
Emma

On 22/07/2014 17:42, Emma Cliffe wrote:

>

> Dear Susan,

>

> If I understand it correctly running conversion to MathPage is using

> Word's conversion tools for some of the work. This is likely to be the

> issue with the page numbers, as far as I am aware Word does not

> convert headers or footers when converting to web formats. This was

> certainly true in Word 2003 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/212270 and

> I imagine is still the case as one might ask what a header or footer

> is intended to be in this format since the whole document is converted

> to a single page - I understand why you want the numbers in this case

> but you'll have to include them a different way.

>

> I am running Word 2010 with MathType 6.9. The footnotes issue is only

> occurring in some conversions and I can explain what is happening and

> a nasty fix but it looks like a bug. Not sure whose bug though, could

> be Word or MathType. Publish to MathPage you have 5 options for MathML

> in 6.9 (fewer in earlier versions I imagine). Some of these will not

> trigger the bug but they may not be the format you want. Some will

> trigger the bug.

> 1. HTML + MathJax: Produces a .htm file with MathJax handling the

> rendering of MathML equations. Will not trigger the bug.

> 2. XHTML + MathJax: Produces a .xht file with MathJax handling the

> rendering of MathML equations. Will trigger the bug.

> 3. XHTML + MathML: Produces a .xht file with native rendering of the

> MathML equations. Will trigger the bug.

> 4. MathPlayer (IE behavior): Produces a .htm file with equations which

> will only be rendered by MathPlayer + IE<10. Will not trigger the bug.

> 5. Multi-browser (UMSS): Produces a .xht file with equations in MathML

> using the universal MathML style sheet. Will trigger the bug.

>

> The bug is that whenever you have a footnote the XML is incorrect and

> the bug is only occurring in the xht outputs so it is caused by

> whatever is responsible for producing the XML (Word?). E.g. you get:

> <p class="MsoFootnoteText"><a href="#_ftnref1"

> name="_ftn1" title=""><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><![if

> !supportFootnotes]><span class="MsoFootnoteReference"><span

> style='font-size:10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";

> mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font:

> minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times

> New Roman";

> mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:

> EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA'>[1]</span></span><![endif]></span></a> <a

> href="http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/">http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/</a>

> </p>

>

> The incorrect portions are:

> <![if !supportFootnotes]> which should be <!--[if !supportFootnotes]>

> and

> <![endif]> which should be <![endif]-->

>

> The only way for you to fix this, that I am aware, is to open up the

> exported source in a suitable editor and hand fix all such errors or

> to write a script that does this for you.

>

> If anyone else has any ideas or comments on the above it would be

> great to hear them. If anyone knows for sure whether this is Word or

> MathType then we could also report the issue. I will try and follow it

> up with some contacts I have who may be able to shed some light but

> this could take some time.

>

> Kind regards,

> Emma

>

> On 22/07/2014 16:38, Susan Kelmer wrote:

>>

>> We are getting a lot of requests for math of late, and this has not

>> been our strong point in production. So, we're still in a bit of a

>> learning mode. We've discovered a few things, and need some help.

>>

>> When converting to MathPage after editing our Word document using

>> MathType, we are finding two problems:

>>

>> a.We put page number in the header section of word documents as a

>> matter of routine. The page numbers disappear in the finalized

>> document, and we're not sure why.

>>

>> b.If we have footnotes (we use the footnote function in Word to

>> create them), the output to MathPage fails.

>>

>> None of us working on conversions (me or my student staff) are "math

>> people," so we are doing some struggling but making our way through.

>> If someone could help us with these two issues, we'd be grateful!

>>

>> /Susan Kelmer/

>>

>> /Alternate Format Coordinator/

>>

>> /Disability Services/

>>

>> /University of Colorado/

>>

>> /303-735-4836/

>>

>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> athen-list mailing list

>> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>

>> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> athen-list mailing list

> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu>

> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list


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Subject: Digest Footer

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End of athen-list Digest, Vol 102, Issue 15
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