[Athen] Sub-lists

Ron Stewart ron at altformatsolutions.com
Wed Aug 6 13:34:31 PDT 2014

It looks like it may be a problem with the list structure but also partially a user education problem. Without seeing the actual code it is hard to tell.

Nested lists like this are a really an issue with many novice screen reader users, and based on here comments I would think this may be true. One of the things I always tell users is don’t believe what you hear, especially on lists, menus and the like. But to navigate through them using their keyboard to verify.

Ron Stewart

From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Carin Headrick
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:15 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: Re: [Athen] Sub-lists


Hmmm my screen reader, JAWS at the moment, didn’t really think that was a list at all, but I wonder if that’s something to do with it being changed somehow when it became an email.

Usually JAWS will say, for example, “list of 5 items” and when it reaches the sub-list, “list of 1 items nesting level 1” which indicates it’s inside the other list. I would have to check what NVDA or Voiceover does though.

Sorry I couldn’t be of much help.


From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Karen Sorensen
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:58 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
Subject: [Athen] Sub-lists

Hi Colleagues,

In working with a screen reader user, she expressed confusion about a sub-list. JAWS just read "list of 5 items" but before it reached the end of those 5 items, it read "list of 1 item". She thought something was wrong because it hadn't read all of the five items. Is there a better way to mark this up so it's obvious the list of 1 item is a sub-list?

I asked if she could tell it was a sub-list because it hadn't reached the end of the 5 items yet, but she was more inclined to not believe the "list of 5 items" was correct.

Here's the list:

* Main Menu
* Courses
* Homework Sets

* Section 1_2

* Passwork/Email
* Grades



Karen M. Sorensen
Accessibility Advocate for Online Courses
Portland Community College
"The power of the Web is in its universality. Access by everyone regardless of disability is an essential aspect.” Tim Berners-Lee

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