[Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

David Andrews dandrews at visi.com
Sat Jul 14 08:59:45 PDT 2018

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At some point, in the future, I believe, ePub
will become the norm. First, two things need to
happen, the readers need to become ubiquitous.
Edge reading ePub's will help, but still need to
go some. Secondly, there need to be good
solutions to the page numbering problem.

Twenty, or twenty-five years ago if publishers
had said we will only give you PDF's, you would have been outraged.

ePub's are easier to make accessible, at least
for the publishers, and have advantages like text reflow.

None of this solves your problems today -- this is a transition time.

Dave

At 09:43 AM 7/12/2018, you wrote:

>Content-Language: en-US

>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

>

>boundary="_000_DM5PR03MB332162925A7CE86996F987B0FB590DM5PR03MB3321namp_"

>

>With all due respect, Rachelâ€¦you are speaking

>from the perspective of a publisher. You

>donâ€™t know our students. You donâ€™t know our

>needs, or theirs. You donâ€™t know how

>frustrating it is for us in the business of

>creating accessible content to have to jump

>through a thousand hoops just to be able to give

>a student what they need to get through their

>reading. You are making non-information-based

>assumptions about our students and how they need

>to access materials. Let me lay it out for you:

>

>1. You just said that we need to have a

>special reader to read ePubs. Whether that is

>YET ANOTHER APP or program, or another plugin,

>you are asking our students to do YET ONE MORE

>THING to have access to the materials their

>other classmates have access to readily and

>easily and without plugins, programs, or other hoops to jump through.

>2. You assume every student is using

>Kurzweil or Read and Write Gold. What? WHAT??

>Do you even do research on what people are using

>to read with before you make these assumptions?

>3. Vitalsource? Give me a break. The

>quality of files on there leave a LOT to be desired.

>4. Vital Source, ADE, Kobo, Amazon Kindle,

>etc. are all forcing people to be locked into a

>particular platform and a particular method of

>access. Additionally, not a single one of these

>platforms contain ALL of the materials a student

>may need to access throughout their career. So,

>they need to have an app or program or login to

>a platform for each and every thing, and each

>one may be different. i.e., if it is this kind

>of file, you open this program. If it is this

>other kind of file, you open this OTHER

>program. And here, hereâ€™s ANOTHER file that

>you need this other app to be able to use. And

>this one needs a login to an online source, so

>make sure you have the Internet before you try to read it!

>5. How do ANY of these platforms give us

>access for students who are blind? Is there

>Braille in there? Nice clean text/Word files

>they can access with a screen reader? Perfectly

>tagged HTML that will never barf and always has

>images alt-tagged and all data behind graphics

>outlined clearly? Iâ€™m just betting not. You

>assume itâ€™s just â€œno big thingâ€ to have a

>blind student need to download another thing, to

>access this thing, that a screen reader may or

>may not be able to navigate. Again, making

>assumptions about what our students need or want.

>

>Please understand, Rachel, that we are in the

>business of legally-mandated provision of

>alternate format for our students. Weâ€™re not

>arguing for the provision of perfectly tagged

>PDFs from publishers to serve all students. We,

>as providers, are asking that you continue to

>provide us with the PDFs we can use to create

>the format THAT THE STUDENT NEEDS. We are, at

>our very base, doing what we do for

>STUDENTS. Publishers are doing what they need

>to do for PROFITS. We are coming from two

>different places, but we just wish publishers

>would stop pushing formats on us that our

>students do not need or want, or have trouble accessing.

>

>Please, just give us PDFs when we ask for

>them. Is that really so hard? Keep producing

>all the locked in, need-yet-another-app-to read

>stuff you want and putting it out there, but

>when we, the providers for students with

>disabilities, ask for a file we can work with to

>create accessible format for a student, can you just give us that thing?

>

>

>

>From: athen-list

><athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf Of Rachel Comerford

>Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2018 7:07 PM

>To: athen-list at u.washington.edu

>Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

>

>Hi Susan!

>Adobe Digital Editions (ADE) is one of the many

>readers that will open epubs. It isn't a

>proprietary format (although they may have a

>format that they push as well). ADE is the

>platform (like ibooks, kindle, vitalsource,

>redshelf, and others) and EPUB is the format of

>the content (basically all of the text, design

>files, navigation files, etc). Students who use

>Kurzweil or Read and Write Gold can also open

>epubs in those platforms although those

>companies are in the process of doing some

>updating to allow for more ease of use of epub.

>

>My favorite epub reader for textbooks is

>vitalsource. It's free to download the reader

>and the company has worked really closely with

>Benetech and DAISY to build an accessible ebook

>reader. There are a lot of good ones out there though.

>

>I wholeheartedly believe that PDFs were a good

>solution for students using AT but EPUBs are a

>better one. The accessibility metadata that can

>be built into them, the clear navigation without

>remediation, and the ability to resize and

>reflow text (no more horizontal scrolling!!) are just a few reasons.

>

>Just my 2 cents in case it helps. I know there

>will be some talk about this at AHEAD and AHG

>this year - maybe we'll get a chance to meet there!

>

>If the file is DRM'd - have you tried reaching

>out through BookShare or AccessText Network for

>a file that isn't? I know we provide DRM-free

>files via those libraries... I'm sure other publishers do to.

>

>Rachel

>

>Rachel Comerford | Senior Director of Content

>Standards and Accessibility | T 212.576.9433

>

>Macmillan Learning

>

>

>Message: 5

>Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 17:44:33 +0000

>From: Susan Kelmer

><<mailto:Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>

>To: Access Technology Higher Education Network

> <<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>athen-list at u.washington.edu>

>Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to

> read?

>Message-ID:

>

><<mailto:DM5PR03MB3321CC468FEC9FDAE6F3E22AFB440 at DM5PR03MB3321.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>DM5PR03MB3321CC468FEC9FDAE6F3E22AFB440 at DM5PR03MB3321.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

>

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

>Removing DRM to produce an accessible file for a

>student with a disability is legally

>allowed. Converting any type of file to another

>type of file for accessibility purposes is legally allowed.

>

>We are not "illegals!"

>

>Susan Kelmer

>Alternate Format Production Program Manager

>Disability Services

>University of Colorado Boulder

>303-735-4836

>

>

>

>From: athen-list

><<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>

>On Behalf Of <mailto:chagnon at pubcom.com>chagnon at pubcom.com

>Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 11:40 AM

>To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'

><<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>athen-list at u.washington.edu>

>Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

>

>FYI, DRM (digital rights management) was

>developed to protect the copyright and control the distribution of the content.

>Be careful what you post on a public list! <grin>

>

>- - -

>Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | Bevi at PubCom.com<mailto:Bevi at PubCom.com>

>- - -

>PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing

>consulting * training * development * design * sec. 508 services

>Upcoming classes at

><http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses>www.PubCom.com/classes<<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H

>0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses>http://www.PubCom.com/classes>

>- - -

>

>

>From: athen-list

><<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>>

>On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer

>Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 12:20 PM

>To: Access Technology Higher Education Network

><<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>

>Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

>

>Thanks, Bevi. I will likely be experimenting

>with some cracking, to see if I can get it out of DRM.

>

>I've had success in the past doing this. This will be no different.

>

>-Susan

>

>From: athen-list

><<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>>

>On Behalf Of

><mailto:chagnon at pubcom.com>chagnon at pubcom.com<mailto:chagnon at pubcom.com>

>Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 10:01 AM

>To: 'Access Technology Higher Education Network'

><<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>

>Subject: Re: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

>

>Adobe Digital Editions is a proprietary eBook

>format (not EPUB) that does indeed require

>software or plug-ins in order to access the file.

>

>Since its proprietary rather than open source,

>we generally stay away from it. Plus, Adobe

>charges a small fortune to developers to create

>and publish titles in Adobe Digital Editions.

>

>And it's not EPUB, the universal open source

>ebook reader file format that pretty much anyone can open on any device.

>

>Adobe's website does say it is now accessible.

>See

><https://www.adobe.com/solutions/ebook/digital-editions.html>https://www.adobe.com/solutions/ebook/digital-editions.html

>

>- - -

>Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | Bevi at PubCom.com<mailto:Bevi at PubCom.com>

>- - -

>PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing

>consulting * training * development * design * sec. 508 services

>Upcoming classes at

><http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Cb5JG4SSzd9Fn3LQEqKW8D_rJTtkgmRIiehsj9k3PyNdPS9grRrUClTKLbrEPmvM324OOADmve0_2b1qA4OGgT96tBzHuyq41BO8ffr0H7XKJiXmClKclnjp1EZcwGUjHW6E5MZFJpJ9Ye77kk1kralLiuVdIw4ATsLMY-9VSDvJV2ApdYwQ0oWEEiQxEsTdoU3JYXb1TKBT-EbQND8d98X6j2LsTSn_hTcxgL0HqIiBNe4ljXE06jittTHmJbNroV5cbjUJ4FWxVRiRL7Pg2JnpXRjBIiFPewWJ5qk9ALIJkfcgAJbhCMyeSalVQuXssbNFid4TXJzVcCouOkwIGuYbewWLpUuiXMNFO9XPciY7OSJqP51vKk6-7s21tbUg6OAioB90TV5SuFfbtW5H0uEgjQivtYk9bYPN_hD4vtgfXJl9bR7eABeBm_H42o1sYvd6sBHNNPmK50gN73Yt2Q/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pubcom.com%2Fclasses>www.PubCom.com/classes<<http://secure-web.cisco.com/1fPUvjX9jiMIJMlgPZfalTDuqonDjkDCjL_1-xyRROP-epedYN3ZF8eWpxwLvkq-mbtdMmZVNI1QW0X3m3NyxiB_r1vyLsMypmPJ6hITcaZsPvEUw2ygWovsqJUfGgTrY8hqL9JHdHQ4u7YYztxqR46IcpBd-_6C_COQlPuls5MAaoDzY4M-FAiqP-McYNcCUuq2X60RnXytBPU9P64kaOhpWodRLmuU4irYx1cXiH4GoAZ5nyEsia220xQFXXYpAsyM2cwYDjVwSjWzERGL3v2gMA0YWy9OrIDxgihRUaTKZ1Y76bU_R5Km9UoVGpqSOL9mrx34SR9ue8Em5xiS2AalJtmmVdFAT52LaKQfHqzlSLuz3m7pqLrf9t2o9d1Qm7r3dUdjWvnFX_pzigCLV

>Xa0dUYcoXsCPcnzA6_vssGKgHJpThqfczezxTK3Rjby6l5t_BpYfWC-TuVZV261d9A/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.PubCom.com%2Fclasses>http://secure-web.cisco.com/1fPUvjX9jiMIJMlgPZfalTDuqonDjkDCjL_1-xyRROP-epedYN3ZF8eWpxwLvkq-mbtdMmZVNI1QW0X3m3NyxiB_r1vyLsMypmPJ6hITcaZsPvEUw2ygWovsqJUfGgTrY8hqL9JHdHQ4u7YYztxqR46IcpBd-_6C_COQlPuls5MAaoDzY4M-FAiqP-McYNcCUuq2X60RnXytBPU9P64kaOhpWodRLmuU4irYx1cXiH4GoAZ5nyEsia220xQFXXYpAsyM2cwYDjVwSjWzERGL3v2gMA0YWy9OrIDxgihRUaTKZ1Y76bU_R5Km9UoVGpqSOL9mrx34SR9ue8Em5xiS2AalJtmmVdFAT52LaKQfHqzlSLuz3m7pqLrf9t2o9d1Qm7r3dUdjWvnFX_pzigCLVXa0dUYcoXsCPcnzA6_vssGKgHJpThqfczezxTK3Rjby6l5t_BpYfWC-TuVZV261d9A/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.PubCom.com%2Fclasses>

>- - -

>

>

>From: athen-list

><<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>>

>On Behalf Of Susan Kelmer

>Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 10:51 AM

>To:

><mailto:ALTMEDIA at LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET>ALTMEDIA at LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET<mailto:ALTMEDIA at LISTSERV.CCCNEXT.NET>;

>Access Technology Higher Education Network

><<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>;

>athes at lists.colorado.edu<mailto:athes at lists.colorado.edu>

>Subject: [Athen] ePubs need Adobe Digital Editions PLUS Jaws to read?

>

>Sorry for the cross-posting...some of you may see this more than once.

>

>A colleague brought this to my attention. My

>understanding was that Jaws could read EPUBs

>already, but one she just received from a

>publisher requires the download/installation/use

>of Adobe Digital Editions in addition to Jaws to read.

>

>Is this new, or have I missed something? Since

>publishers are now foisting ePubs onto us, I

>need to know if we are going to run into these

>types of problems. "It will work, but, you need

>this thing and this thing and this other thing too..."

>

>My biggest gripe is needing to give students yet

>another way they have to read their materials,

>when what they had in the first place was

>working just fine before publishers decided to

>take it upon themselves to tell us what our students need and want.

>

>Susan Kelmer

>Alternate Format Production Program Manager

>Disability Services

>University of Colorado Boulder

>303-735-4836

>

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