[Athen] Slightly OT: A concern for the future of Windows-based AT

Dan Comden danc at uw.edu
Wed Jul 25 22:49:05 PDT 2018


That article puts the onus on browsers. AT still has it handled for the
most part.

I'm not trolling, really. We have HTML standards and ARIA -- and AT can
know that stuff if it's coded properly. It's the OS and app builders who
are falling short, in my opinion.

Discuss :)

-*- Dan

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 7:31 AM, Deborah Armstrong <
armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu> wrote:


> I respectfully disagree. Screen readers still largely have a use case of a

> static web page. They don’t cope well when a page changes constantly. All

> geographic relationships between pieces of data are lost as it’s displayed

> in a flat representation – see this blog post for clarification:

>

> https://www.marcozehe.de/2017/09/29/rethinking-web-

> accessibility-on-windows/

>

>

>

> They ignore some clickable elements. They tell the user that he’s focused

> on an edit box when he isn’t. Various browser and screen reader

> combinations give different results.

>

> The very fact that there are three different modes of JAWS to access a web

> page, forms mode, virtual cursor and application mode and the idea that the

> user needs to understand the concepts of HTML (navigate to the third list

> to find your homework assignment!) makes the web more confusing for the

> screen reader user than working say with something simple like Wordpad.

>

>

>

> Now take a magnification user. I was just helping someone last week with

> this completely accessible page:

>

> http://www.accessibleworld.org

>

>

>

> and she didn’t see one of the columns at all. She was reading only half

> the page, because she didn’t know there was a column to the right. The

> screen reader user doesn’t know there are columns at all.

>

>

>

> And if we’re talking about users with learning differences, consider how

> each web interface – online learning is a great example – is completely

> different. Do you go to tasks, preferences, settings, options or profile to

> set up for your online class? With a busy page, where do you tell the

> speech to start reading? If you use a keyboard, is it alt-O, ctrl-O,

> shift-O, ctrl-alt-f then O or is it Alt1, then O to open a file? I’ve seen

> different online apps that use these keystrokes, whereas a mouse user just

> clicks “Open”.

>

>

>

> Back in the early 1990s when Alan Cooper wrote “The Inmates are running

> the asylum” we learned how the presence of modes and the absence of

> consistency in an interface made it problematic.

>

>

>

> OK, so this has nothing to do with AT. But AT isn’t coping with it

> gracefully either; it’s giving access, but the ramp is pretty darn steep

> for a manual chair!

>

>

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu] *On

> Behalf Of *Dan Comden

> *Sent:* Monday, July 23, 2018 10:53 PM

> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <

> athen-list at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Slightly OT: A concern for the future of

> Windows-based AT

>

>

>

> Hi Deborah,

>

> Thanks for linking the article. The following is not directed at you. And

> your article is not Off Topic at all.

>

>

>

> How about a different position -- AT has things handled. For the most

> part, screenreaders, TTS, STS, magnifiers -- they all understand basic

> underlying html.

>

>

>

> So who is getting it wrong? The companies putting out shoddy interfaces

> and non-standard apps? Or the browsers? Assistive tech for the most part

> has it handled.

>

>

>

> Discuss.

>

>

>

> -*- Dan

>

>

>

> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 1:46 PM, Deborah Armstrong <

> armstrongdeborah at fhda.edu> wrote:

>

> Bloomberg has an interesting story about Amy Hood, Microsoft’s CFO.

>

>

>

> One business trend for this past decade is that a CFO is no longer a

> glorified accountant/budget analyst. They are now part of the senior

> management team – determiners of strategy rather than implementers.

> Microsoft’ Q4 earnings report came out Thursday and according to Bloomberg,

> investors are saying Ms. Hood is the best CFO Microsoft has ever had.

>

>

>

> One thing she’s done is take money away from legacy divisions and put it

> in to the cloud. Since 2002 when she was hired her goal is to move

> Microsoft more towards cloud-based subscription models for their products –

> I’m paraphrasing Bloomberg here—previously most divisions could ask for

> what they wanted budget-wise and could expect to get it – that’s no longer

> true. Bloomberg also comments that Ms. Hood timed her start date back in

> 2002 to get maximum access to the employee stock purchase plan.

>

>

>

> So despite what we see at conferences with Microsoft’s waving of the

> accessibility banner, I don’t think it’s going to be smooth sailing ahead.

> If it doesn’t improve growth it’s going to be ignored.

>

>

>

> The earnings reports no longer say anything about Windows, so we can

> assume it is gradually going to just be a framework for a browser; already

> most new apps are PWAS (progressive web apps) which means no installation,

> no data on your own PC, but you need to be online to access any of it.

>

>

>

> This means that AT is going to need to get much better at dealing with

> progressive web apps and other online offerings. For keyboard users, there

> is no longer a consistent, reliable set of keystrokes for operating

> web-based applications. For screen reader users, just to take one example,

> pressing Tab can take you out of the application and in to the address bar

> which is very confusing; imagine if a single and frequently used keystroke

> could dump you out of the operating system! For magnification users, the

> lack of standards in a web-based interface means that you can miss

> important information because you weren’t looking in the right place.

>

>

>

> The full Bloomberg story is here:

>

> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-16/how-

> amy-hood-won-back-wall-street-and-helped-reboot-microsoft

> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.bloomberg.com_news_articles_2018-2D07-2D16_how-2Damy-2Dhood-2Dwon-2Dback-2Dwall-2Dstreet-2Dand-2Dhelped-2Dreboot-2Dmicrosoft&d=DwMFaQ&c=xoYdONxMEGxjdvKj5bOdEOV28uakaJ20R4TjadGGZBc&r=gcvya4Pqy0A2EsMRyTgo_3n3PIn53GqWAnSNzbIFuBs&m=CcimSMQ4xO57bauN-QFhIWxzoCQCJz9__fybuJ6oxQE&s=wqlaq2O3tzSI4ZWKS_M2IOpRhyt1HJAQC3w8PzmD-4o&e=>

>

>

>

> --Debee

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

> --

>

> -*- Dan Comden danc at uw.edu <danc at washington.edu>

>

> Access Technology Center www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/

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--
-*- Dan Comden danc at uw.edu <danc at washington.edu>
Access Technology Center www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/
University of Washington UW Information Technology
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