[Athen] athen-list Digest, Vol 152, Issue 4
Iza Bartosiewicz
iza.bartosiewicz at rmit.edu.au
Wed Sep 5 23:46:59 PDT 2018
Hi Rebecca
Check out messages no. 1 and no. 9
cheers
Iza
*Iza Bartosiewicz | Web Coordinator*
Internet Services, Library and Student Success
Building 94, 23 Cardigan Street
Carlton VIC 3053
Tel. +61 3 9925 3103
iza.bartosiewicz at rmit.edu.au
www.rmit.edu.au/ <http://www1.rmit.edu.au/library>
@Mr0wka18 <http://twitter.com/Mr0wka18>
www.linkedin.com/in/izabartosiewicz
*RMIT University acknowledges the Kulin Nations as the traditional
custodians of the land on which the University stands. RMIT University
respectfully acknowledges Elders both past and present.*
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <athen-list-request at mailman12.u.washington.edu>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 at 05:04
Subject: athen-list Digest, Vol 152, Issue 4
To: <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Alternate format textbook sources
(Tristen Breitenfeldt (Wipro Ltd.))
2. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Robert Spangler)
3. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Karlen Communications)
4. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Robert Spangler)
5. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Andrea L. Dietrich)
6. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Robert Spangler)
7. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Andrea L. Dietrich)
8. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Robert Spangler)
9. Re: Alternate format textbook sources (Joseph Polizzotto)
10. Re: Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader (Andrea L. Dietrich)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 12:41:55 -0700
From: "Tristen Breitenfeldt \(Wipro Ltd.\)"
<tristenbreitenfeldt at gmail.com>
To: <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate format textbook sources
Message-ID: <003001d443be$2c1974a0$844c5de0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,
While I was a student, I checked a couple different sources for accessible
textbook formats before approaching the DRC at my college.
I checked the following places:
iBooks (from Apple)
Kindle (from Amazon)
BARD (from the National Library Service for the Blind)
Audible.com
BookShare
These are all accessible sources for books. Sometimes my books were
available and sometimes not. Sometimes I could get the right book in the
wrong edition, which meant getting approval from my instructor.
Yes, these are sources that Alternative Formats offices can also
investigate, but I am a strong believer in encouraging students to exhaust
the available options, doing some "leg work" on their own first. It is a
little extra work for students to investigate these avenues on their own,
but believe it or not having the ability to find my own accessible materials
was extremely empowering and provided me with skills that have helped me in
my career. I'm pretty sure that most students would feel similarly after
finding their own books.
I'm not saying that the Alt Formats office was unnecessary; quite the
opposite in fact, because I frequently relied on them as my backup plan if I
couldn't find the books I needed in an accessible format, or if I needed
certain parts of a book in another format such as braille or tactile
graphics. I also depended on the nudging and encouragement from my DRC
counselor encouraging me to explore these other options, even when it was
easier for me to get all my books from the Alt Formats office.
Have a great day!
Tristen Breitenfeldt
Accessibility Tester/Trainer
Wipro/Microsoft
-----Original Message-----
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf
Of athen-list-request at mailman12.u.washington.edu
Sent: Monday, September 3, 2018 12:00 PM
To: athen-list at u.washington.edu
Subject: athen-list Digest, Vol 152, Issue 3
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 12:43:05 -0700
From: Shelley Haven <ShelleyHaven at techpotential.net>
To: ATHEN <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate format textbook sources
Message-ID: <6B753ABB-AD87-4082-B3A6-C423FFF69A7C at techpotential.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Check CAST?s webpage on ?Digital Content & Media Sources? (part of their
extensive AEM section) for other sources you might want to add to your list:
http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV
<http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV>
0o
<http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2U
<http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2U>
V0o>
Best,
Shelley
_____________________________
Shelley Haven ATP, RET
Assistive Technology Consultant
www.TechPotential.net
<http://www.TechPotential.net>
On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Hegney, Shaun <Shaun.Hegney at sfcc.spokane.edu>
wrote:
Hello all,
I am doing a little research as I am trying to find more sources for
alternate format textbooks as it seems like our college is using less common
or harder to get books. Especially as we add increasingly niche courses. I
have been sourcing most of my books from Access Text, Book Share and
publishers directly. I have also used the Louis Database (I have found a few
braille books this way).
If you have any other, sources please share your experience. In addition, I
am interested in hearing if anyone has found a membership to the access text
exchange worthwhile.
Thanks,
Shaun Hegney
Program Specialist 2
Disability Support Services
Spokane Falls Community College
(509)-533-3544
Shaun.Hegney at sfcc.spokane.edu <mailto:Shaun.Hegney at sfcc.spokane.edu>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:09:48 -0400
From: Robert Spangler <rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Message-ID:
<CAA6y2T71f4exnfK-qeVKuQvbBeb6vHsydn2apW8y4dxjYLx_nQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe
calls Bookmarks?
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com> wrote:
> Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of
> HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading
> from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the
> Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF
> documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it
> is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or
> comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note
> or comment and the ?text on the page.?
>
>
>
> While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the
> content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or
tagged
> correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are
> working from.
>
>
>
> You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Hello:
>
>
>
> I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader
> user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most
> accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found
> a way to edit PDFs directly.
>
>
>
> Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately,
> I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the
> text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if
> there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to
> determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.
>
>
>
> Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the
> administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer
> classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task
> ultimately falls to me!
>
>
>
> I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working
> with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems
> with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not
> always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my
> students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient
> for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.
>
>
>
> Looking forward to responses.
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:28:26 -0400
From: "Karlen Communications" <info at karlencommunications.com>
To: "'Access Technology Higher Education Network'"
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Message-ID: <001101d4445b$8bba1d90$a32e58b0$@karlencommunications.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you
are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word
2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to
what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged
PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is
also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.
Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to 2013.
Then it was under View, Document Map.
Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a
Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers.
Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an
<LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent
<Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH>
Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.
When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on
the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way
to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or
if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another
topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat
Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make
anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to
provide consistent navigational tools.
Cheers, Karen
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf
Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe
calls Bookmarks?
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com <mailto:info at karlencommunications.com> >
wrote:
Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of
HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading
from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the
Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF
documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it
is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or
comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note
or comment and the ?text on the page.?
While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the
content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged
correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are
working from.
You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.
Cheers, Karen
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu <mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> > On Behalf Of Robert
Spangler
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu> >
Subject: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Hello:
I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader user,
I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most
accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found a
way to edit PDFs directly.
Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately, I
need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the
text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if
there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to
determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.
Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the
administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer
classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task
ultimately falls to me!
I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working
with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems
with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not
always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my
students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient for
me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.
Looking forward to responses.
Robert
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu <mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu <mailto:
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu>
http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu <mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:53:57 -0400
From: Robert Spangler <rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Message-ID:
<CAA6y2T6aUqu1HFye4QtHRzRD_5-VBfyo99=1ExfVSOgBzC4=uA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so
this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker
available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into
chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there
are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in
Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I
then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.
Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find
the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this
another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use
screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at
times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall
every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for
reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document
like a text file.
Robert
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com> wrote:
> No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you
> are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word
> 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to
> what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged
> PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is
> also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.
>
>
>
> Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to
> 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.
>
>
>
> Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a
> Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding
numbers.
> Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and
an
> <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent
> <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH>
> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.
>
>
>
> When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on
> the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another
way
> to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents
or
> if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another
> topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat
> Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make
> anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to
> provide consistent navigational tools.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe
> calls Bookmarks?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <
> info at karlencommunications.com> wrote:
>
> Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of
> HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading
> from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the
> Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF
> documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it
> is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or
> comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note
> or comment and the ?text on the page.?
>
>
>
> While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the
> content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or
tagged
> correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are
> working from.
>
>
>
> You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Hello:
>
>
>
> I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader
> user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most
> accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found
> a way to edit PDFs directly.
>
>
>
> Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately,
> I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the
> text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if
> there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to
> determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.
>
>
>
> Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the
> administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer
> classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task
> ultimately falls to me!
>
>
>
> I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working
> with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems
> with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not
> always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my
> students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient
> for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.
>
>
>
> Looking forward to responses.
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
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<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20180904/4fe0fdb4/attachment-0001.html>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 15:00:08 +0000
From: "Andrea L. Dietrich" <adietrich at cornell.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Message-ID:
<
BN1PR04MB389340BAFB8CD0475239D06B8030 at BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can
tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports all
the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader
but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file individually,
in my experience.
Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m
sighted.
Good luck!
-Andi :)
--------------------------
Andrea Dietrich
Cornell University
Student Disability Services
Cornell Health, Level 5
110 Ho Plaza
Ithaca, NY 14853
http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
<http://sds.cornell.edu/
<http://sds.cornell.edu/>
>
Tel. 607.254.4545
Fax. 607.255.1562
Office Hours:
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf
Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so
this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker
available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into
chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there
are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in
Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I
then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.
Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find
the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this
another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use
screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at
times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall
every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for reading
PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document like a text
file.
Robert
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com<mailto:info at karlencommunications.com>> wrote:
No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you
are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word
2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to
what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged
PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is
also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.
Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to 2013.
Then it was under View, Document Map.
Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a
Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers.
Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an
<LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent
<Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH>
Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.
When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on
the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way
to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or
if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another
topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat
Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make
anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to
provide consistent navigational tools.
Cheers, Karen
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe
calls Bookmarks?
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com<mailto:info at karlencommunications.com>> wrote:
Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of
HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading
from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the
Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF
documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it
is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or
comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note
or comment and the ?text on the page.?
While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the
content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged
correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are
working from.
You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.
Cheers, Karen
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Hello:
I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader user,
I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most
accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found a
way to edit PDFs directly.
Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately, I
need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the
text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if
there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to
determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.
Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the
administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer
classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task
ultimately falls to me!
I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working
with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems
with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not
always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my
students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient for
me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.
Looking forward to responses.
Robert
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu>
http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu>
http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 11:24:07 -0400
From: Robert Spangler <rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Message-ID:
<CAA6y2T4CZYFZ3jdVBUKT49VZLy5xuMWH4jHQFDGQ2X37dOLUQQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thank you! Where can I find this setting? Worth looking into.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:13 AM Andrea L. Dietrich <adietrich at cornell.edu>
wrote:
> For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can
> tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports
all
> the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader
> but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file
individually,
> in my experience.
>
>
>
> Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m
> sighted.
>
>
>
> Good luck!
>
>
>
> -Andi :)
>
>
>
> --------------------------
>
> Andrea Dietrich
>
> Cornell University
>
> Student Disability Services
>
> Cornell Health, Level 5
>
> 110 Ho Plaza
>
> Ithaca, NY 14853
>
> http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
>
>
>
> Tel. 607.254.4545
>
> Fax. 607.255.1562
>
>
>
> Office Hours:
>
> Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
>
> Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so
> this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker
> available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books
into
> chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there
> are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in
> Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I
> then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.
>
>
>
> Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find
> the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this
> another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use
> screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at
> times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall
> every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for
> reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document
> like a text file.
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <
> info at karlencommunications.com> wrote:
>
> No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you
> are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word
> 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to
> what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged
> PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is
> also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.
>
>
>
> Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to
> 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.
>
>
>
> Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a
> Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding
numbers.
> Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and
an
> <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent
> <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH>
> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.
>
>
>
> When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on
> the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another
way
> to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents
or
> if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another
> topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat
> Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make
> anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to
> provide consistent navigational tools.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe
> calls Bookmarks?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <
> info at karlencommunications.com> wrote:
>
> Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of
> HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading
> from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the
> Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF
> documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it
> is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or
> comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note
> or comment and the ?text on the page.?
>
>
>
> While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the
> content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or
tagged
> correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are
> working from.
>
>
>
> You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Hello:
>
>
>
> I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader
> user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most
> accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found
> a way to edit PDFs directly.
>
>
>
> Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately,
> I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the
> text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if
> there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to
> determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.
>
>
>
> Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the
> administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer
> classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task
> ultimately falls to me!
>
>
>
> I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working
> with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems
> with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not
> always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my
> students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient
> for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.
>
>
>
> Looking forward to responses.
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 16:16:00 +0000
From: "Andrea L. Dietrich" <adietrich at cornell.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Message-ID:
<
BN1PR04MB389F16C0ECD166BF4FC0ABDB8030 at BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In Acrobat Pro 2017, it?s under ?Tools, Organize Pages, Split.?
Then you have to change the settings under Split from ?Number of Pages? to
?Top Level Bookmarks.? If you want, under Output Options, there is a
setting ?Use bookmark names for file names.? You can ONLY choose that if
you?ve already chosen ?Top Level Bookmarks? for your splitting option,
though. Otherwise it?s greyed out and you can?t select it.
Typically, when I?m splitting a PDF, I?ll go through and bookmark the
beginning of each chapter, then use the file splitting to make my chapters.
It?s quicker than exporting or printing each chapter manually.
-Andi :)
--------------------------
Andrea Dietrich
Cornell University
Student Disability Services
Cornell Health, Level 5
110 Ho Plaza
Ithaca, NY 14853
http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
<http://sds.cornell.edu/
<http://sds.cornell.edu/>
>
Tel. 607.254.4545
Fax. 607.255.1562
Office Hours:
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf
Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:24 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Thank you! Where can I find this setting? Worth looking into.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:13 AM Andrea L. Dietrich <adietrich at cornell.edu
<mailto:adietrich at cornell.edu>> wrote:
For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can
tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports all
the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader
but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file individually,
in my experience.
Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m
sighted.
Good luck!
-Andi :)
--------------------------
Andrea Dietrich
Cornell University
Student Disability Services
Cornell Health, Level 5
110 Ho Plaza
Ithaca, NY 14853
http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
<http://sds.cornell.edu/
<http://sds.cornell.edu/>
>
Tel. 607.254.4545
Fax. 607.255.1562
Office Hours:
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so
this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker
available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into
chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there
are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in
Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I
then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.
Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find
the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this
another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use
screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at
times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall
every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for reading
PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document like a text
file.
Robert
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com<mailto:info at karlencommunications.com>> wrote:
No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you
are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word
2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to
what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged
PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is
also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.
Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to 2013.
Then it was under View, Document Map.
Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a
Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers.
Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an
<LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent
<Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH>
Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.
When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on
the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way
to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or
if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another
topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat
Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make
anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to
provide consistent navigational tools.
Cheers, Karen
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe
calls Bookmarks?
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com<mailto:info at karlencommunications.com>> wrote:
Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of
HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading
from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the
Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF
documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it
is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or
comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note
or comment and the ?text on the page.?
While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the
content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or tagged
correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are
working from.
You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.
Cheers, Karen
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Hello:
I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader user,
I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most
accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found a
way to edit PDFs directly.
Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately, I
need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the
text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if
there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to
determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.
Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the
administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer
classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task
ultimately falls to me!
I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working
with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems
with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not
always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my
students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient for
me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.
Looking forward to responses.
Robert
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu>
http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu>
http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
_______________________________________________
athen-list mailing list
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu>
http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu<mailto:rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:34:55 -0400
From: Robert Spangler <rspangler1 at udayton.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Message-ID:
<CAA6y2T4apDM8BmoNULF5LcuRpPNdvsTRL9EAReFCeqTVQR8qOw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Awesome! Does anyone know if this same process is possible in Abbyy and
how to do it if it is?
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 12:25 PM Andrea L. Dietrich <adietrich at cornell.edu>
wrote:
> In Acrobat Pro 2017, it?s under ?Tools, Organize Pages, Split.?
>
>
>
> Then you have to change the settings under Split from ?Number of Pages? to
> ?Top Level Bookmarks.? If you want, under Output Options, there is a
> setting ?Use bookmark names for file names.? You can ONLY choose that if
> you?ve already chosen ?Top Level Bookmarks? for your splitting option,
> though. Otherwise it?s greyed out and you can?t select it.
>
>
>
> Typically, when I?m splitting a PDF, I?ll go through and bookmark the
> beginning of each chapter, then use the file splitting to make my
chapters.
> It?s quicker than exporting or printing each chapter manually.
>
>
>
> -Andi :)
>
>
>
> --------------------------
>
> Andrea Dietrich
>
> Cornell University
>
> Student Disability Services
>
> Cornell Health, Level 5
>
> 110 Ho Plaza
>
> Ithaca, NY 14853
>
> http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
>
>
>
> Tel. 607.254.4545
>
> Fax. 607.255.1562
>
>
>
> Office Hours:
>
> Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
>
> Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:24 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Thank you! Where can I find this setting? Worth looking into.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:13 AM Andrea L. Dietrich <adietrich at cornell.edu>
> wrote:
>
> For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can
> tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports
all
> the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader
> but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file
individually,
> in my experience.
>
>
>
> Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m
> sighted.
>
>
>
> Good luck!
>
>
>
> -Andi :)
>
>
>
> --------------------------
>
> Andrea Dietrich
>
> Cornell University
>
> Student Disability Services
>
> Cornell Health, Level 5
>
> 110 Ho Plaza
>
> Ithaca, NY 14853
>
> http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
>
>
>
> Tel. 607.254.4545
>
> Fax. 607.255.1562
>
>
>
> Office Hours:
>
> Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
>
> Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so
> this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker
> available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books
into
> chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there
> are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in
> Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I
> then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.
>
>
>
> Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find
> the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this
> another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use
> screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at
> times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall
> every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for
> reading PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document
> like a text file.
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <
> info at karlencommunications.com> wrote:
>
> No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you
> are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word
> 2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to
> what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged
> PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is
> also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.
>
>
>
> Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to
> 2013. Then it was under View, Document Map.
>
>
>
> Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a
> Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding
numbers.
> Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and
an
> <LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent
> <Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH>
> Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.
>
>
>
> When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on
> the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another
way
> to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents
or
> if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another
> topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat
> Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make
> anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to
> provide consistent navigational tools.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe
> calls Bookmarks?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <
> info at karlencommunications.com> wrote:
>
> Screen readers and Text-to-Speech tools are always in ?virtual view? of
> HTML and PDF documents. This means that the adaptive technology is reading
> from the buffer not the text layer of the document, In PDF, this is the
> Tags Tree. It is the reason we can?t add notes or other comments to PDF
> documents ? where we think we are in the document is not where we are, it
> is where we are in the buffer. It is also why we can?t follow notes or
> comments in PDF documents. For us, there is no connection between the note
> or comment and the ?text on the page.?
>
>
>
> While we can go down the Tags Tree, open the tags and review some of the
> content/that is showing, we can?t tell if content has been missed or
tagged
> correctly based on what is on the visual representation of the page we are
> working from.
>
>
>
> You do need eyesight to fully remediate PDF documents.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>
>
> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler
> *Sent:* Friday, August 31, 2018 9:05 AM
> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> *Subject:* [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
>
>
>
> Hello:
>
>
>
> I am in charge of our alternative formats program. As a screen reader
> user, I do not find Adobe Acrobat Pro or Abbyy Finereader to be the most
> accessible. I find them laggy, they sometimes freeze and I have not found
> a way to edit PDFs directly.
>
>
>
> Is this possible for blind folks to do with a screen reader? Ultimately,
> I need to be able to remediate PDFs. I would like to do tagging, edit the
> text, do chapter breaks, etc. I know I can do chapter breaks especially if
> there are bookmarks in the PDF, but I find this difficult to do, to
> determine the page numbers easily, if there are not bookmarks.
>
>
>
> Normally, we have student workers who handle the editing and I just do the
> administrative stuff, such as sending out the texts. We have summer
> classes, though, when the student workers are not here, so this task
> ultimately falls to me!
>
>
>
> I would love to hear from people, especially blind people, who are working
> with remediating PDFs. Is this possible? Are there accessibility problems
> with these programs? Admittedly, I've just accepted that most PDFs are not
> always edited adequately and I deal with it, but I don't want to tell my
> students this. Haha. I usually run it through OCR and that's sufficient
> for me except for when the order of the reading is incorrect.
>
>
>
> Looking forward to responses.
>
>
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Robert Spangler
> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
> rspangler1 at udayton.edu
> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
> University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
> Phone: 937-229-2066
>
> Fax: 937-229-3270
>
> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of
hearing)
>
> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
<http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list>
>
--
Robert Spangler
Disability Services Technical Support Specialist
rspangler1 at udayton.edu
Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023
Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)
University of Dayton | 300 College Park | Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302
Phone: 937-229-2066
Fax: 937-229-3270
Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)
Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning
<http://go.udayton.edu/learning>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 09:45:57 -0700
From: Joseph Polizzotto <jpolizzotto at berkeley.edu>
To: athen-list at u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate format textbook sources
Message-ID:
<CAGQNLEV=fmY6dDhG7CsXwQdKOtf_TsM1Qty+nnUQSc9kmW2KJw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi ATHEN List:
I have attached the "Sources of E-Text" table that was compiled previously
at the HTCTU.
I would also add to this list Internet Archive <https://archive.org/
<https://archive.org/>>
, who
has recently launched a pilot program with AHEAD members to give students'
direct access to their holdings. See the following:
Internet Archive Pilot Project
<
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JhY8UNo7oP8G5l41wN59syqA3B_Frp-29iF4d5ZVuts/edit
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JhY8UNo7oP8G5l41wN59syqA3B_Frp-29iF4d5ZVuts/edit>
>
For audio versions of public domain titles, also don't forget about LibriVoX
<https://librivox.org/
<https://librivox.org/>>
.
Respectfully,
Joseph
On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 12:46 PM Tristen Breitenfeldt (Wipro Ltd.) <
tristenbreitenfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> While I was a student, I checked a couple different sources for accessible
> textbook formats before approaching the DRC at my college.
> I checked the following places:
> iBooks (from Apple)
> Kindle (from Amazon)
> BARD (from the National Library Service for the Blind)
> Audible.com
> BookShare
>
> These are all accessible sources for books. Sometimes my books were
> available and sometimes not. Sometimes I could get the right book in the
> wrong edition, which meant getting approval from my instructor.
> Yes, these are sources that Alternative Formats offices can also
> investigate, but I am a strong believer in encouraging students to exhaust
> the available options, doing some "leg work" on their own first. It is a
> little extra work for students to investigate these avenues on their own,
> but believe it or not having the ability to find my own accessible
> materials
> was extremely empowering and provided me with skills that have helped me
in
> my career. I'm pretty sure that most students would feel similarly after
> finding their own books.
> I'm not saying that the Alt Formats office was unnecessary; quite the
> opposite in fact, because I frequently relied on them as my backup plan if
> I
> couldn't find the books I needed in an accessible format, or if I needed
> certain parts of a book in another format such as braille or tactile
> graphics. I also depended on the nudging and encouragement from my DRC
> counselor encouraging me to explore these other options, even when it was
> easier for me to get all my books from the Alt Formats office.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Tristen Breitenfeldt
> Accessibility Tester/Trainer
> Wipro/Microsoft
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf
> Of athen-list-request at mailman12.u.washington.edu
> Sent: Monday, September 3, 2018 12:00 PM
> To: athen-list at u.washington.edu
> Subject: athen-list Digest, Vol 152, Issue 3
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 12:43:05 -0700
> From: Shelley Haven <ShelleyHaven at techpotential.net>
> To: ATHEN <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate format textbook sources
> Message-ID: <6B753ABB-AD87-4082-B3A6-C423FFF69A7C at techpotential.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Check CAST?s webpage on ?Digital Content & Media Sources? (part of their
> extensive AEM section) for other sources you might want to add to your
> list:
>
>
>
http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV
<http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV>
> 0o
> <
http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV0o
<http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV0o>
>
> <
>
http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2U
<http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2U>
> V0o
> <
http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV0o
<http://aem.cast.org/navigating/digital-content-media-sources.html#.W4w63y2UV0o>
>
> >
>
> Best,
> Shelley
>
> _____________________________
> Shelley Haven ATP, RET
> Assistive Technology Consultant
> www.TechPotential.net
<http://www.TechPotential.net>
>
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Hegney, Shaun <
> Shaun.Hegney at sfcc.spokane.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am doing a little research as I am trying to find more sources for
> alternate format textbooks as it seems like our college is using less
> common
> or harder to get books. Especially as we add increasingly niche courses. I
> have been sourcing most of my books from Access Text, Book Share and
> publishers directly. I have also used the Louis Database (I have found a
> few
> braille books this way).
>
> If you have any other, sources please share your experience. In addition,
> I
> am interested in hearing if anyone has found a membership to the access
> text
> exchange worthwhile.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shaun Hegney
> Program Specialist 2
> Disability Support Services
> Spokane Falls Community College
> (509)-533-3544
> Shaun.Hegney at sfcc.spokane.edu <mailto:Shaun.Hegney at sfcc.spokane.edu>
>
>
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> athen-list mailing list
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>
--
*Alternate Media Supervisor*
Disabled Students' Program
University of California, Berkeley
https://dsp.berkeley.edu/
<https://dsp.berkeley.edu/>
<
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 17:33:31 +0000
From: "Andrea L. Dietrich" <adietrich at cornell.edu>
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
<athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Message-ID:
<
BN1PR04MB389E814428041DDF067F33CB8030 at BN1PR04MB389.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I looked for a similar setting in ABBYY but I haven?t found one. If anyone
else knows of one, please share!
Thanks,
Andi :)
--------------------------
Andrea Dietrich
Cornell University
Student Disability Services
Cornell Health, Level 5
110 Ho Plaza
Ithaca, NY 14853
http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
<http://sds.cornell.edu/
<http://sds.cornell.edu/>
>
Tel. 607.254.4545
Fax. 607.255.1562
Office Hours:
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> On Behalf
Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 12:35 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Awesome! Does anyone know if this same process is possible in Abbyy and how
to do it if it is?
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 12:25 PM Andrea L. Dietrich <adietrich at cornell.edu
<mailto:adietrich at cornell.edu>> wrote:
In Acrobat Pro 2017, it?s under ?Tools, Organize Pages, Split.?
Then you have to change the settings under Split from ?Number of Pages? to
?Top Level Bookmarks.? If you want, under Output Options, there is a
setting ?Use bookmark names for file names.? You can ONLY choose that if
you?ve already chosen ?Top Level Bookmarks? for your splitting option,
though. Otherwise it?s greyed out and you can?t select it.
Typically, when I?m splitting a PDF, I?ll go through and bookmark the
beginning of each chapter, then use the file splitting to make my chapters.
It?s quicker than exporting or printing each chapter manually.
-Andi :)
--------------------------
Andrea Dietrich
Cornell University
Student Disability Services
Cornell Health, Level 5
110 Ho Plaza
Ithaca, NY 14853
http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
<http://sds.cornell.edu/
<http://sds.cornell.edu/>
>
Tel. 607.254.4545
Fax. 607.255.1562
Office Hours:
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 11:24 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Thank you! Where can I find this setting? Worth looking into.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:13 AM Andrea L. Dietrich <adietrich at cornell.edu
<mailto:adietrich at cornell.edu>> wrote:
For chapter splitting, there?s actually a setting in Acrobat where you can
tell the program to split on ?top-level bookmarks,? and it just exports all
the chapters separately. IDK how well that would work with a screen reader
but it?s less time-consuming than printing each PDF to a file individually,
in my experience.
Just FYI ? sorry I can?t speak to the rest of your questions, since I?m
sighted.
Good luck!
-Andi :)
--------------------------
Andrea Dietrich
Cornell University
Student Disability Services
Cornell Health, Level 5
110 Ho Plaza
Ithaca, NY 14853
http://sds.cornell.edu
<http://sds.cornell.edu>
<http://sds.cornell.edu/
<http://sds.cornell.edu/>
>
Tel. 607.254.4545
Fax. 607.255.1562
Office Hours:
Monday-Thursday 8:15AM-4:45PM
Friday 8:15AM-4:00PM
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:54 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Thanks so much for this detailed explanation. I have HTML experience, so
this makes a lot of sense. Often times I do not have a student worker
available to help me (summer breaks and such) so I have to break books into
chapters upon receipt from the publisher. I find it very useful if there
are bookmarks, because I can extract those by going to this treeview in
Adobe, invoking the context menu on each one and choosing print section. I
then print it to the Microsoft Print to PDF.
Many books do not offer this luxury, however, and it's much harder to find
the page numbers to know what ranges to extract for each chapter. Is this
another task that is simply going to be tougher for those of us who use
screen readers? The way Adobe lags with screen readers, jumps around at
times in the buffer, just makes me want to bang my head against the wall
every time I have to deal with it. I use a program called QRead for reading
PDFs which simplifies the experience by presenting the document like a text
file.
Robert
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 10:34 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com<mailto:info at karlencommunications.com>> wrote:
No, Bookmarks are typically a list of the Headings in a document. If you
are using Word, you can turn on the Navigation Pane (Alt + W, K in Word
2013/2016) and get a list of Headings in the document. This is similar to
what you get when you convert a Word document or other formats to tagged
PDF and have the ?create Bookmarks from Headings? setting turned on. It is
also similar to getting a list of Headings with your adaptive technology.
Apologies, I forget the keyboard command in versions of Word prior to 2013.
Then it was under View, Document Map.
Tags are similar to the HTML Tags where every paragraph has a <P> Tag, a
Heading 1 has an <H1> Tag with other Headings having corresponding numbers.
Lists have a parent <L> Tag with an <Lbl> Tag for a bullet or number and an
<LBody> Tag for the content of the bullet or number. Tables have a parent
<Table> Tag and every row has a <TR> Tag with the cells having either <TH>
Tags for table Header cells or <TD> Tags for table Data cells.
When adaptive technology gets a list of Headings, it should be drawing on
the information in the Tags to get that list. The Bookmarks are another way
to navigate the content if the document doesn?t have a Table of Contents or
if you don?t want to return to a Table of Contents to move to another
topic?you can open the Bookmarks Panel in the Adobe Reader or Acrobat
Navigation Pane and see the ?list of Headings.? Of course you can make
anything a Bookmark in a PDF document, but generally we use Headings to
provide consistent navigational tools.
Cheers, Karen
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:
athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> On Behalf Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2018 10:10 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu
<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Editing PDFs with a Screen Reader
Yeah, that stinks. Are the tags in the PDF the same thing is what Adobe
calls Bookmarks?
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:46 AM Karlen Communications <
info at karlencommunications.com<mailto:info at karlencommunications.com>
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