[Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF

[Krista Greear]

I’ll just share that I was able to use Kindle locations as reference points
in my citations for several research papers. I think Robert and Dan can
both be correct in the sense of while page numbers may not be as crucial as
they used to be, identifying a specific location within a body of text
(aside from headings only) is likely going to be important.

Loving the various perspectives,
Krista


On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:57 AM Robert Beach <rbeach at kckcc.edu> wrote:


> Dan,

>

>

>

> I do have to disagree with you on page numbers for college students, at

> least at this point in time. Until MLA, APA, Harvard, and Chicago stop

> requiring page numbers in their references, college students need them. I

> have been marked down on papers I’ve turned in because I didn’t have a page

> number for the citation in my “accessible” resource.

>

>

>

> While younger folks are used to digital materials without page numbers

> (even I am), college instructors aren’t. I still get syllabi with reading

> assignments that only include page numbers, not chapters. How is a student

> supposed to do the correct reading if they cann’t find the page numbers?

>

>

>

> So, there will have to be a shift in mind set with instructors and people

> developing the format guidelines before we can forget page numbers.

> Otherwise, students with disabilities will be at a great disadvantage.

>

>

>

> Otherwise, I agree with you and Susan completely.

>

>

>

> Just to clarify, breaking DRM is only legal when being done to provide

> accessible materials for individuals with disabilities. It is not legal for

> just anybody to break DRM for the purpose of modifying materials in any

> other context that I am aware of.

>

>

>

>

>

> Robert Lee Beach

>

> Assistive Technology Specialist

>

> Kansas City Kansas Community College

>

> 7250 State Avenue

>

> Kansas City, KS  66112

>

> Phone: 913-288-7671

>

> Email: rbeach at kckcc.edu

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On

> Behalf Of *Dan Comden

> *Sent:* Friday, September 7, 2018 12:41 AM

>

>

> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <

> athen-list at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF

>

>

>

> I don't (regularly) do accessible text conversions.

>

>

>

> I'm with Susan. Publishers (punishers?) will lose that fight. Bring it.

> The truly awesome number of crappy content that students are asked to deal

> with is staggering. Publishers should be helping this, not making it worse.

> If they really wanted to fix this, they would. (personal opinion begins)

> but they're in denial over the model of printed textbooks continuing to be

> the rule. Yes, students still prefer printed books, (and some of our own

> research supports that) but someone is going to figure out how to make

> digital versions work well and they will own the space.

>

>

>

> And where I depart from many is the idea of the print page number...give

> it a rest. Give headings (unique) instead. These kids are used to dealing

> with digital delivery in formats like Kindle. Absolute position is what

> matters, not a print page number that is irrelevant for someone using

> screenreader or magnifcation.

>

>

>

> Likely we need a new method but print page numbers are going to really

> passe soon.

>

>

>

> -*- Dan

>

>

>

> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 3:04 PM, Susan Kelmer <Susan.Kelmer at colorado.edu>

> wrote:

>

> George, perhaps you have time to hound publishers about removing DRM and

> other protections.

>

>

>

> I take in over 500 requests for textbooks a semester, more than half of

> those in the first two weeks of classes (I crossed the 300 mark today).

> Having ongoing arguments with publishers is a waste of my time, and I do

> what needs to be done to get the job done (and files out to the student).

> We turn around most books (even ones we have to scan or the bookshare files

> we have to correct) in four days.  Our max stated goal is two weeks.  I am

> not messing around. A student without their reading materials is dead in

> the water, and I cannot and will not allow that to happen.

>

>

>

> It is, actually, quite legal to crack DRM, using whatever tools are

> available.  And I will continue to do it, for the betterment of my students.

>

>

>

> No student should have to wait an extra week while I have a back-and-forth

> argument with a publisher about whatever DRM they attached or whatever

> password they put on it or whatever watermark they put on and think we

> cannot remove.

>

>

>

> I crack it, produce the files in the needed format, and move on.  I

> literally do not have time to educate a publisher, who should really know

> better, that they are making our lives difficult.  They can choose to do

> what they are going to do.  I, too, can choose to do what I’m going to do

> to circumnavigate whatever roadblocks they have thrown up.

>

>

>

> *Susan Kelmer*

>

> *Alternate Format Production Program Manager*

>

> *Disability Services*

>

> *University of Colorado Boulder*

>

> *303-735-4836*

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On

> Behalf Of *George Kerscher

> *Sent:* Thursday, September 06, 2018 3:21 PM

>

>

> *To:* 'Access Technology Higher Education Network' <

> athen-list at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF

>

>

>

> Hi,

>

>

>

> Yes, you do have the right and obligation to make educational materials

> accessible.

>

>

>

> I would think that the publisher made a mistake by sending you a protected

> PDF. I suggest you recontact them and ask for an unprotected version.

>

>

>

> Also, the DMCA makes it illegal to produce software intended for defeating

> DRM. The promotion of cracking tools is also a violation, but I am not a

> lawyer.

>

>

>

> We have been working hard with publishers to make their publications born

> accessible, and we have seen many advances, and we still have a long way to

> go. Starting to crack protected content is not something we should promote.

>

>

>

> I removed the link to the cracking software from the original post below.

>

>

>

> Best

>

> George

>

>

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On

> Behalf Of *Susan Kelmer

> *Sent:* Thursday, September 6, 2018 10:41 AM

> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <

> athen-list at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* Re: [Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF

>

>

>

> You have a legal right to crack the PDF to do what you need to do.  My

> favorite cracker is this one:

>

>

>

>

>

> *Susan Kelmer*

>

> *Alternate Format Production Program Manager*

>

> *Disability Services*

>

> *University of Colorado Boulder*

>

> *303-735-4836*

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> *From:* athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> *On

> Behalf Of *Robert Spangler

> *Sent:* Thursday, September 06, 2018 10:31 AM

> *To:* Access Technology Higher Education Network <

> athen-list at u.washington.edu>

> *Subject:* [Athen] Breaking Security in a PDF

>

>

>

> Hello, if I receive a secured PDF from a publisher, how can I circumvent

> this to be able to break it into chapters?

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

> Robert

>

>

>

>

> --

>

> Robert Spangler

> Disability Services Technical Support Specialist

> rspangler1 at udayton.edu

> Office of Learning Resources (OLR) - RL 023

> Ryan C. Harris Learning & Teaching Center (LTC)

> University of Dayton  | 300 College Park  |  Dayton, Ohio 45469-1302

> Phone: 937-229-2066

>

> Fax: 937-229-3270

>

> Ohio Relay: 711 (available for individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing)

>

> Web Site: http://go.udayton.edu/learning

>

>

> _______________________________________________

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>

>

>

>

> --

>

> -*- Dan Comden                       danc at uw.edu <danc at washington.edu>

>

>     Access Technology Center   www.uw.edu/itconnect/accessibility/atl/

>

>     University of Washington      UW Information Technology

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> athen-list mailing list

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>

-- 
Krista

Krista Greear
Inclusive Instructional Design Enthusiast
krista at inclusiveinstructionaldesign.com
360-991-7764
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