[Athen] Alternate text question

[Butler, Brandon (bcb4y)]

No worries! Scott shared it in his initial message – here’s the link: https://www.arl.org/resources/the-law-and-accessible-texts-reconciling-civil-rights-and-copyrights/. It was published by ARL and funded by the Mellon Foundation as part of a grant project that aims enable access to a federated set of databases of accessible texts. More information about the grant (which received a second round of funding this year) is here: https://news.library.virginia.edu/2021/04/15/federated-repositories-of-accessible-materials-for-higher-education-ii-awarded-a-1175000-grant-from-the-andrew-w-mellon-foundation/.

All best,
Brandon


From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Monica Olsson <molsson at sbctc.edu>
Date: Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 2:38 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate text question
Brandon,

Sorry if I missed where you put this, but where I can I find the white paper you mention?




[Title: SBCTC logo - Description: Compass]Monica M. Olsson (she/her/hers)

Policy Associate – Accessible IT Coordinator

Washington State Board for Community and Technical Colleges

molsson at sbctc.edu<mailto:molsson at sbctc.edu> • o: 360-704-3922 • c: 206-914-7187

sbctc.edu<https://www.sbctc.edu/> • Twitter: @SBCTCWashington<https://twitter.com/SBCTCWashington> • Facebook: @WASBCTC<https://www.facebook.com/wasbctc/>

________________________________
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Butler, Brandon (bcb4y) <bcb4y at virginia.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2021 11:24 AM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate text question

Wink,

You say, “Publishers are not inclined, trained, or required to provide alt-text formatted books.”


Of course, architects and civil engineers were similarly disinclined to make buildings and sidewalks accessible prior to the ADA imposing legal obligations for them to do so. Broadcasters would be similarly situated to closed captions if the FCC didn’t require them. Publishers have so far eluded any legal obligation to make their products accessible. Given that, it seems more than reasonable that the law imposes no obligation on entities like ours to require purchase of inaccessible products as a precondition to providing an accessible version.


At any rate, whatever the merits may be of the moral arguments in favor of forcing disabled students to purchase useless products, there is no legal argument for it, unless you have promised a vendor you will do so. That was my only original claim and I stand by it. If you feel a moral obligation to force these purchases despite the absence of any legal obligation to do so, that is entirely up to you.


Best,
Brandon
________________________________
From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of foreigntype at gmail.com <foreigntype at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2021 12:55:09 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate text question

Brandon,

Publishers are not inclined, trained, or required to provide alt-text formatted books. While it would be lovely in a perfect universe for students to be able to go to the book kiosk and select TTS or screen reader formatted, or Braille, it is not a business model publishers are likely to adopt. Students are all required to obtain assigned textbooks for their classes. DSS offices are responsible for providing the alt text appropriately formatted text. All students are expected to purchase/rent/obtain the books and those who require alternative text are provided with accessible materials at no (additional) cost to them.

I will carry on converting books and other class materials to appropriate formats for the students who need alt text. I will continue to be proactive in requesting the books in advance from publishers, ATN, Bookshare, and other sources and enduring the students(s) have their appropriately formatted books in hand at the beginning of the semester. Why should students with disabilities be held to a lower standard than their peers?

Wink Harner

On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 5:55 AM Butler, Brandon (bcb4y) <bcb4y at virginia.edu<mailto:bcb4y at virginia.edu>> wrote:

Hi Wink,



Please read the white paper, which I helped to prepare after a 2-day roundtable discussion with a who’s-who of copyright lawyers, disability rights lawyers and other experts, including Jamie. There just isn’t anything in the law that requires students to buy an inaccessible book before they can be provided with an accessible one. If you can tell me where you find such a requirement, either in Section 121 or in the HathiTrust opinion (the only two sources of law on this subject, more or less), I’d be grateful, and we will revise the white paper accordingly. But neither I nor any expert in that meeting could see any legal basis for this practice.



Best,

Brandon





From: athen-list <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu>> on behalf of foreigntype at gmail.com<mailto:foreigntype at gmail.com> <foreigntype at gmail.com<mailto:foreigntype at gmail.com>>
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 6:37 PM
To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Athen] Alternate text question

Scott,

I respectfully disagree. I'm going to throw out Jamie Axelrod's NAU info page on what's necessary to fulfill copyright requirements: https://in.nau.edu/disability-resources/alternate-format-program/#:~:text=Publishers%20currently%20have%20a%20requirement,proof%20of%20purchase%20on%20file.



If textbooks are required for classes and the expectation is that all students must have the books (or access to the books) for class, why should students with disabilities be exempted from the requirement? This is federal copyright law. Among the gods we serve in alt-text production and accommodations, OCR is god#1 and copyright is god#2.



My 2.5 cents for a rainy bleak midwinter's day in the PNW.

Wink Harner

Accessibility Consultant/Alternative Text Production

The Foreign Type

Portland OR
foreigntype at gmail.com<mailto:foreigntype at gmail.com>
480-984-0034

This email was dictated using Dragon NaturallySpeaking. Please forgive quirks, misrecognitions, or errata .





On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 1:33 PM Lissner, L. Scott <lissner.2 at osu.edu<mailto:lissner.2 at osu.edu>> wrote:

The short answer is, in my opinion, no.    The long answer with supporting documention can be found at https://www.arl.org/resources/the-law-and-accessible-texts-reconciling-civil-rights-and-copyrights/





[Block “0” Logo: The Ohio State University]

L. Scott Lissner,

Americans With Disabilities Act Coordinator and Section 504 Compliance Officer

Office of Institutional Equity



(614) 292-7024(v); (614) 688-8605<tel:(614)%20688-8605>(tty) (614) 688-3665<tel:(614)%20688-3665>(fax); Http://ada.osu.edu<http://ada.osu.edu/>



“The American story is about the slow, yet steady widening of opportunity. Make no mistake: too many dreams have been deferred for too long. We must make the promise of the country real for everybody — no matter their race, their ethnicity, their faith, their identity or their disability.”

— President-Elect Joe Biden, 11/7/20





On 12/15/21, 1:56 PM, "athen-list on behalf of Kluesner, Bryon" <athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman12.u.washington.edu> on behalf of Bryon-Kluesner at utc.edu<mailto:Bryon-Kluesner at utc.edu>> wrote:



Hi all,



When you work with students who have been approved for alternate texts, do you require proof of purchase or proof of having a copy of the text, such as purchase from Amazon, having a “physical copy”, whether used or bought from a friend?



Thanks,



Bryon



Bryon Kluesner RhD, ATAC

Adaptive Technology Coordinator

Disability Resource Center

University of Tennessee at Chattanooga

615 McCallie Ave., Dept. 2953<https://www.google.com/maps/search/615+McCallie+Ave.,+Dept.+2953+%0D%0A+Chattanooga,+TN+37403?entry=gmail&source=g>

Chattanooga, TN 37403<https://www.google.com/maps/search/615+McCallie+Ave.,+Dept.+2953+%0D%0A+Chattanooga,+TN+37403?entry=gmail&source=g>

423-425-5251



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Wink Harner Assistive Technology Consulting and Training Alternative Text Production Portland OR. foreigntype at gmail.com<mailto:foreigntype at gmail.com> 480-984-0034
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