[Athen] athen-list Digest, Vol 117, Issue 18
Ganga Harrison
gdharris at ucsc.edu
Wed Oct 21 12:10:45 PDT 2015
Thanks so much!
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 12:01 PM, <
athen-list-request at mailman13.u.washington.edu> wrote:
> Send athen-list mailing list submissions to
> athen-list at u.washington.edu
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> athen-list-request at mailman13.u.washington.edu
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> athen-list-owner at mailman13.u.washington.edu
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of athen-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Independence Science? (Russell Solowoniuk)
> 2. Re: the math accessibility guru's have spoken (Joshua Hori)
> 3. Re: the math accessibility guru's have spoken (KRISTA L. GREEAR)
> 4. Re: the math accessibility guru's have spoken (Joshua Hori)
> 5. DAISY format and players (Ganga Harrison)
> 6. Re: DAISY format and players (John Elmer)
> 7. Re: DAISY format and players (Joseph Polizzotto)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:43:05 -0600
> From: "Russell Solowoniuk" <SolowoniukR at macewan.ca>
> To: <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: [Athen] Independence Science?
> Message-ID: <562652F9020000EC00040C21 at gatedom2vs.macewan.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone used any of the products or tactile graphics from Independence
> Science? They sell data collection tools, data analysis software, sensors
> and meters, and tactile graphics that help visually impaired and blind
> students work more independently in science lab settings.
>
> I'd be interested to get feedback from anyone who has tried these products.
>
> Here is a link to their website....
>
> http://www.independencescience.com
>
> Thanks,
>
> Russell
>
> Russell Solowoniuk
> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
> MacEwan University
> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
> Edmonton, AB T5J 4S2
> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
> T: 780-497-5826
> F: 780-497-4018
> macewan.ca
> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is
> addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or privileged
> information. Please contact me immediately if you are not the intended
> recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take
> action relying on it. Any communication received in error, or subsequent
> reply, should be deleted or destroyed.
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 21:51:02 +0000
> From: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
> <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
> Message-ID:
> <
> A813F14D72B7E14FBDC130669B59176C689EE461 at exmbx12.ex.ad3.ucdavis.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The compilation is now a Google Doc.
>
> Some other considerations:
> Vision Objects Web equations: https://webdemo.myscript.com/#/demo/equation
>
> - Convert handwriting into LaTeX and MathML
> Using the Vision Objects to create math equations for an LMS:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-aRZZO_veE
> Benetech?s Math Matrix: http://msf.mathmlcloud.org/
>
> - Verify which assistive technologies read math aloud and which
> types of software and plug-ins are needed (currently in beta).
> Speech Driven Math Editor: http://www.inftyreader.org/?p=67
>
> - Can be a little clunky but is based off of free software and
> custom macro?s. The macro?s listed at the above link do not work, but I
> have them available within a DropBox<
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wq1wbhiaqj11onl/AADMBJsKX73D7weWdg_iVcW7a?dl=0>.
> I?ve found that math terms over 3 syllables can be problematic for
> macros?or maybe it?s just my pronunciation that?s horrible?
> Benetech?s Math Cloud:
> http://benetech.org/our-programs/literacy/born-accessible/mathml-cloud/
>
> - Create accessible math using LaTeX. Provides 3 different
> outputs. (MathJax, MathML, SVG with Alt Text)
> Best,
>
> Joshua Hori
>
>
> From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu]
> On Behalf Of KRISTA L. GREEAR
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 5:10 PM
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
>
> Below is a compilation of responses to 5 questions that I posed to the
> listserv about math accessibility last week. I received a handful of
> responses and copied/pasted their comments with virtually no editing. They
> are in no particular order. A 6th and 7th question was asked which I did my
> best to respond. The questions are identified as a heading 1 with the
> responses in bulleted form underneath. Attached is a word doc version as
> well.
>
> Many thanks to the brave and kind folks who shared their knowledge!
>
> Why does LaTeX not work with adaptive technology?
>
> ? I'm attaching a LaTeX, MathML tools for creating accessible
> documents guide, and here is the author's webpage:
> https://www.csun.edu/~hcmth008/
>
> ? My guess is that screen readers have been designed to interpret
> the HTML markup syntax, and have not yet have the market demand to build a
> parser for LaTeX. To dig deeper, I suspect it would be very challenging
> for screen readers to distinguish between two sets of markup grammar, and
> to be able to interpret substitution macros in LaTeX.
>
> ? LaTeX is a programming language for typesetting documents and is
> presented in a text format. A person can work in a LaTeX editor and the
> text content will be read, but it functions like code. If you understand
> the code, then you will understand the equation. It's a bit like looking at
> HTML code and being able to envision the web page. So, if you are
> interacting with the code view, then screen-readers can read the text
> string of a LaTeX equation. When you use LaTeX, you are providing specific
> instructions for content (e.g., text, equations, etc.) to be rendered
> visually in a specific manner. Once a LaTeX file is compiled and printed,
> you are no longer dealing with LaTeX content.
>
> ? There has been some working going on in the UK that may help
> answer your questions. There is a publication from 2012
> http://www.mathcentre.ac.uk/resources/uploaded/inclusivecurricula.pdf
> that might be useful. The articles on starting on page 19 may be useful as
> they explain how to blind students developed a system of reading LaTeX in
> a pretty raw form as a reading medium instead of braille. They considered
> this the quickest route to access maths. But these were very talented
> mathematicians who started to develop this technique before the graduated
> school. The advice we give to VI mathematicians keen to study it at college
> is to learn LaTeX as soon as possible.
>
> ? Some thoughts on your questions. The main reason that LaTeX is a
> difficult format to convert from into one that works with assistive
> technology is that it is an unstructured. That is there are no semantics
> within the maths notation and it is possible to create a document without
> any structure. The other problem is that anyone can create their own LaTeX
> macros and can use a range of packages/templates used to compile the LaTeX
> into other formats. This has a huge impact on how easy it is to convert
> LaTeX into another format. Emma Cliffe at the University of Bath is the
> expert in the UK on this area. She had a project in 2012 to look at the
> process of converting LaTeX into accessible formats -
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/study/mash/maths-access/overview/index.html - and
> she is currently working on a project to produce an up-to-date databased on
> the best techniques. I (Dr Abi James) am going to talk a bit about this at
> Accessing Higher Ground. Currently her team prefer Pla!
> sTeX as a conversion route http://plastex.sourceforge.net/.
>
> How would you explain professor about how to make LaTeX accessible? (aka
> is the only option to turn into MathML and use it in a word document or
> with HTML)?
>
> ? In certain LMS (e.g., D2L, Canvas), the equation editor includes
> LaTeX as one of the input methods.
>
> ? Some students who are familiar and/or literate in LaTeX may
> prefer to use a LaTeX file directly as the student would be working with
> the language directly. I worked with a few students who preferred this
> interaction as they had access to the actual equation code. Further, there
> were several majors in which students were expected to be literate in
> LaTeX, regardless of disability. It was just how that academic community
> communicated.
>
> ? LaTeX serves an input format (essentially) and as such is much
> more compact and easier to understand than MathML. However, it was not
> intended to be an output format and provide the semantic structure of math
> content - that's a role MathML provides. LaTeX was intended for authoring
> documents so as to then print them out in an accurate manner.
>
> ? If the student is not familiar with LaTeX and prefers to use an
> HTML or MS Word format (depending on the preferred AT), then you will need
> to jump through a few steps. If you want to use MS Word with NVDA, then
> MathType is the easiest tool to use to copy and paste LaTeX into MS Word
> and use MathType to convert these to math objects. Alternatively, if you
> want to use HTML, then you can embed LaTeX math equations in an HTML file
> and use MathJax to convert the LaTeX into MathML content.
>
> What do you use to go from a LaTeX-based document to a MathML one?
>
> ? A handful of converters exists from a quick Internet search.
> Would anyone share their experience about these converters?
>
> ? You could use MathJax or MathType as conversion tools. MathJax
> if you are dealing with web pages and MathType if you are dealing with MS
> Word. There may be others, but these are the two I was most familiar with
> during production.
>
> Do you know of any updates about making math accessible within a PDF?
>
> ? To my knowledge, MathML with Word or HTML is the best option.
>
> ? I believe MathML is supposed to be part of the next PDF/UA
> specification. I have heard rumors of PDF documents with accessible math
> equations, but have not seen one yet. Of note is that even if MathML
> becomes part of the PDF/UA specification, AT will still need to do some
> work to support such implementations.
>
> If you got to stand in front of all math faculty at your campus, what
> would you want to share with them?
>
> ? My advice to STEM persons would be: if they save .tex documents
> as .pdf, keep the original LaTeX source files in case an accommodation for
> a screen reader user is needed.
>
> ? This may be a good resource for STEM faculty - it's a "tex"
> accessibility forum<
> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/accessibility>
>
> ? Math & Science Accessibility<
> https://www.pcc.edu/resources/instructional-support/access/math.html>
>
> ? Math Accessibility Study<
> http://www.pcc.edu/resources/instructional-support/access/Math-Accessibility.html
> >
>
> ? While I think there has been some progress in terms of math
> accessibility, I don't think there is one "great" solution as it depends on
> what AT a student is using to interact with math content. In many cases,
> there is some level of alternate format conversion involved. That said,
> what I think does tend to work well at this time is the following:
>
> o a) Using MS Word+MathType to author math content. This does give a lot
> of flexibility in terms of interacting with the content directly or
> converting it into another format (e.g., HTML, DAISY, etc.). A student can
> use NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to interact directly with math equations in MS
> Word or the student can use the Central Access Reader to read text/math
> content.
>
> o b) However, math faculty tend to prefer LaTeX and so the option is to
> provide access to the .tex files so these may be accessed directly or
> converted by an alt format team into the desired format.
>
> o c) If I had an audience, I may even go so far as to say that the
> hand-scribbled and scanned PDF solution sets are really not helpful if
> trying to convert into an alternate format (you know, the solution sets in
> which it looks like a felt-tip marker was used upside-down and in a mirror
> to write out the answers). I'm not saying every math professor does it, but
> there are certainly a few...it's just painful for everyone.
>
> An additional question is how STEM professors are editing their documents
> nowadays. I can see the obvious benefits of the typesetting LaTeX in the
> days of command line, plus a shallow learning curve for maths and computer
> science experts. What are the rest of STEM faculty using -- those who
> don't need complex equations everyday and don't have the need to learn a
> coding language?
>
> ? I know that faculty on the UW campus are using the built-in
> Equation Editor on MS Office. Very few are using MathType. Otherwise, they
> use LaTeX.
>
> ? This is the response I got from one math professor when asked
> ?Do you know what mathML is?? ? ?I know about MathML. I have never used it.
> I do not know of any mathematician using it. Perhaps some mathematicians
> use it but I have never encountered it online. It is possible that some
> pages use MathML and I am not aware of it. MathJax is quite popular. I use
> it on my own personal Web site and it is used by some of the major
> societies and companies involved in math publications.??
>
> I'm very interested in educating our math department about accessibility.
> Are you trying to get faculty to create math accessibly from the beginning?
> As opposed to the disability service office converting it when needed?
>
> ? Yes, I am trying to help everyone on campus create more
> accessible born materials. This is, obviously, the work of 162 lifetimes.
> However, I am realistic enough to know that the ?convert it only when
> needed? philosophy will still exist for some time. Until we can get
> knowledge/tools/simple processes regarding accessibility to layman, we
> accessibility professionals all have great job security :]
>
> Krista Greear
> University of Washington | Disability Resources for Students
> Accessible Text & Technology Manager
> 011 Mary Gates Hall | Box 352808
> Seattle, WA 98195-2808 | disability.uw.edu/<
> http://disability.uw.edu/%22%20%5Ct%20%22_blank>
> [ada-banner]
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151020/1e9f83a3/attachment-0001.html
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: image001.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 18769 bytes
> Desc: image001.png
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151020/1e9f83a3/attachment-0001.png
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 22:10:21 +0000
> From: "KRISTA L. GREEAR" <greeark at uw.edu>
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
> <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
> Message-ID:
> <
> BY2PR0801MB159141060DE923897254BF25CF390 at BY2PR0801MB1591.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Love it!
>
> From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu]
> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 2:51 PM
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
>
> The compilation is now a Google Doc.
>
> Some other considerations:
> Vision Objects Web equations: https://webdemo.myscript.com/#/demo/equation
>
> - Convert handwriting into LaTeX and MathML
> Using the Vision Objects to create math equations for an LMS:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-aRZZO_veE
> Benetech?s Math Matrix: http://msf.mathmlcloud.org/
>
> - Verify which assistive technologies read math aloud and which
> types of software and plug-ins are needed (currently in beta).
> Speech Driven Math Editor: http://www.inftyreader.org/?p=67
>
> - Can be a little clunky but is based off of free software and
> custom macro?s. The macro?s listed at the above link do not work, but I
> have them available within a DropBox<
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wq1wbhiaqj11onl/AADMBJsKX73D7weWdg_iVcW7a?dl=0>.
> I?ve found that math terms over 3 syllables can be problematic for
> macros?or maybe it?s just my pronunciation that?s horrible?
> Benetech?s Math Cloud:
> http://benetech.org/our-programs/literacy/born-accessible/mathml-cloud/
>
> - Create accessible math using LaTeX. Provides 3 different
> outputs. (MathJax, MathML, SVG with Alt Text)
> Best,
>
> Joshua Hori
>
>
> From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu]
> On Behalf Of KRISTA L. GREEAR
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 5:10 PM
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
> Subject: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
>
> Below is a compilation of responses to 5 questions that I posed to the
> listserv about math accessibility last week. I received a handful of
> responses and copied/pasted their comments with virtually no editing. They
> are in no particular order. A 6th and 7th question was asked which I did my
> best to respond. The questions are identified as a heading 1 with the
> responses in bulleted form underneath. Attached is a word doc version as
> well.
>
> Many thanks to the brave and kind folks who shared their knowledge!
>
> Why does LaTeX not work with adaptive technology?
>
> ? I'm attaching a LaTeX, MathML tools for creating accessible
> documents guide, and here is the author's webpage:
> https://www.csun.edu/~hcmth008/
>
> ? My guess is that screen readers have been designed to interpret
> the HTML markup syntax, and have not yet have the market demand to build a
> parser for LaTeX. To dig deeper, I suspect it would be very challenging
> for screen readers to distinguish between two sets of markup grammar, and
> to be able to interpret substitution macros in LaTeX.
>
> ? LaTeX is a programming language for typesetting documents and is
> presented in a text format. A person can work in a LaTeX editor and the
> text content will be read, but it functions like code. If you understand
> the code, then you will understand the equation. It's a bit like looking at
> HTML code and being able to envision the web page. So, if you are
> interacting with the code view, then screen-readers can read the text
> string of a LaTeX equation. When you use LaTeX, you are providing specific
> instructions for content (e.g., text, equations, etc.) to be rendered
> visually in a specific manner. Once a LaTeX file is compiled and printed,
> you are no longer dealing with LaTeX content.
>
> ? There has been some working going on in the UK that may help
> answer your questions. There is a publication from 2012
> http://www.mathcentre.ac.uk/resources/uploaded/inclusivecurricula.pdf
> that might be useful. The articles on starting on page 19 may be useful as
> they explain how to blind students developed a system of reading LaTeX in
> a pretty raw form as a reading medium instead of braille. They considered
> this the quickest route to access maths. But these were very talented
> mathematicians who started to develop this technique before the graduated
> school. The advice we give to VI mathematicians keen to study it at college
> is to learn LaTeX as soon as possible.
>
> ? Some thoughts on your questions. The main reason that LaTeX is a
> difficult format to convert from into one that works with assistive
> technology is that it is an unstructured. That is there are no semantics
> within the maths notation and it is possible to create a document without
> any structure. The other problem is that anyone can create their own LaTeX
> macros and can use a range of packages/templates used to compile the LaTeX
> into other formats. This has a huge impact on how easy it is to convert
> LaTeX into another format. Emma Cliffe at the University of Bath is the
> expert in the UK on this area. She had a project in 2012 to look at the
> process of converting LaTeX into accessible formats -
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/study/mash/maths-access/overview/index.html - and
> she is currently working on a project to produce an up-to-date databased on
> the best techniques. I (Dr Abi James) am going to talk a bit about this at
> Accessing Higher Ground. Currently her team prefer Pla!
> sTeX as a conversion route http://plastex.sourceforge.net/.
>
> How would you explain professor about how to make LaTeX accessible? (aka
> is the only option to turn into MathML and use it in a word document or
> with HTML)?
>
> ? In certain LMS (e.g., D2L, Canvas), the equation editor includes
> LaTeX as one of the input methods.
>
> ? Some students who are familiar and/or literate in LaTeX may
> prefer to use a LaTeX file directly as the student would be working with
> the language directly. I worked with a few students who preferred this
> interaction as they had access to the actual equation code. Further, there
> were several majors in which students were expected to be literate in
> LaTeX, regardless of disability. It was just how that academic community
> communicated.
>
> ? LaTeX serves an input format (essentially) and as such is much
> more compact and easier to understand than MathML. However, it was not
> intended to be an output format and provide the semantic structure of math
> content - that's a role MathML provides. LaTeX was intended for authoring
> documents so as to then print them out in an accurate manner.
>
> ? If the student is not familiar with LaTeX and prefers to use an
> HTML or MS Word format (depending on the preferred AT), then you will need
> to jump through a few steps. If you want to use MS Word with NVDA, then
> MathType is the easiest tool to use to copy and paste LaTeX into MS Word
> and use MathType to convert these to math objects. Alternatively, if you
> want to use HTML, then you can embed LaTeX math equations in an HTML file
> and use MathJax to convert the LaTeX into MathML content.
>
> What do you use to go from a LaTeX-based document to a MathML one?
>
> ? A handful of converters exists from a quick Internet search.
> Would anyone share their experience about these converters?
>
> ? You could use MathJax or MathType as conversion tools. MathJax
> if you are dealing with web pages and MathType if you are dealing with MS
> Word. There may be others, but these are the two I was most familiar with
> during production.
>
> Do you know of any updates about making math accessible within a PDF?
>
> ? To my knowledge, MathML with Word or HTML is the best option.
>
> ? I believe MathML is supposed to be part of the next PDF/UA
> specification. I have heard rumors of PDF documents with accessible math
> equations, but have not seen one yet. Of note is that even if MathML
> becomes part of the PDF/UA specification, AT will still need to do some
> work to support such implementations.
>
> If you got to stand in front of all math faculty at your campus, what
> would you want to share with them?
>
> ? My advice to STEM persons would be: if they save .tex documents
> as .pdf, keep the original LaTeX source files in case an accommodation for
> a screen reader user is needed.
>
> ? This may be a good resource for STEM faculty - it's a "tex"
> accessibility forum<
> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/accessibility>
>
> ? Math & Science Accessibility<
> https://www.pcc.edu/resources/instructional-support/access/math.html>
>
> ? Math Accessibility Study<
> http://www.pcc.edu/resources/instructional-support/access/Math-Accessibility.html
> >
>
> ? While I think there has been some progress in terms of math
> accessibility, I don't think there is one "great" solution as it depends on
> what AT a student is using to interact with math content. In many cases,
> there is some level of alternate format conversion involved. That said,
> what I think does tend to work well at this time is the following:
>
> o a) Using MS Word+MathType to author math content. This does give a lot
> of flexibility in terms of interacting with the content directly or
> converting it into another format (e.g., HTML, DAISY, etc.). A student can
> use NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to interact directly with math equations in MS
> Word or the student can use the Central Access Reader to read text/math
> content.
>
> o b) However, math faculty tend to prefer LaTeX and so the option is to
> provide access to the .tex files so these may be accessed directly or
> converted by an alt format team into the desired format.
>
> o c) If I had an audience, I may even go so far as to say that the
> hand-scribbled and scanned PDF solution sets are really not helpful if
> trying to convert into an alternate format (you know, the solution sets in
> which it looks like a felt-tip marker was used upside-down and in a mirror
> to write out the answers). I'm not saying every math professor does it, but
> there are certainly a few...it's just painful for everyone.
>
> An additional question is how STEM professors are editing their documents
> nowadays. I can see the obvious benefits of the typesetting LaTeX in the
> days of command line, plus a shallow learning curve for maths and computer
> science experts. What are the rest of STEM faculty using -- those who
> don't need complex equations everyday and don't have the need to learn a
> coding language?
>
> ? I know that faculty on the UW campus are using the built-in
> Equation Editor on MS Office. Very few are using MathType. Otherwise, they
> use LaTeX.
>
> ? This is the response I got from one math professor when asked
> ?Do you know what mathML is?? ? ?I know about MathML. I have never used it.
> I do not know of any mathematician using it. Perhaps some mathematicians
> use it but I have never encountered it online. It is possible that some
> pages use MathML and I am not aware of it. MathJax is quite popular. I use
> it on my own personal Web site and it is used by some of the major
> societies and companies involved in math publications.??
>
> I'm very interested in educating our math department about accessibility.
> Are you trying to get faculty to create math accessibly from the beginning?
> As opposed to the disability service office converting it when needed?
>
> ? Yes, I am trying to help everyone on campus create more
> accessible born materials. This is, obviously, the work of 162 lifetimes.
> However, I am realistic enough to know that the ?convert it only when
> needed? philosophy will still exist for some time. Until we can get
> knowledge/tools/simple processes regarding accessibility to layman, we
> accessibility professionals all have great job security :]
>
> Krista Greear
> University of Washington | Disability Resources for Students
> Accessible Text & Technology Manager
> 011 Mary Gates Hall | Box 352808
> Seattle, WA 98195-2808 | disability.uw.edu/<
> http://disability.uw.edu/%22%20%5Ct%20%22_blank>
> [ada-banner]
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151020/38e6e449/attachment-0001.html
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: image001.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 18769 bytes
> Desc: image001.png
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151020/38e6e449/attachment-0001.png
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 23:27:26 +0000
> From: Joshua Hori <jhori at ucdavis.edu>
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
> <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
> Message-ID:
> <
> A813F14D72B7E14FBDC130669B59176C689EF9D0 at exmbx12.ex.ad3.ucdavis.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Sorry, forgot the link to the google doc:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wObUc4jEjiWMNkEwfIcRdA5dMIPah8i3nDSNilKBJcw/edit?usp=sharing
>
> Best,
>
> Joshua
>
> From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu]
> On Behalf Of KRISTA L. GREEAR
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 3:10 PM
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
>
> Love it!
>
> From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu]
> On Behalf Of Joshua Hori
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 2:51 PM
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
>
> The compilation is now a Google Doc.
>
> Some other considerations:
> Vision Objects Web equations: https://webdemo.myscript.com/#/demo/equation
>
> - Convert handwriting into LaTeX and MathML
> Using the Vision Objects to create math equations for an LMS:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-aRZZO_veE
> Benetech?s Math Matrix: http://msf.mathmlcloud.org/
>
> - Verify which assistive technologies read math aloud and which
> types of software and plug-ins are needed (currently in beta).
> Speech Driven Math Editor: http://www.inftyreader.org/?p=67
>
> - Can be a little clunky but is based off of free software and
> custom macro?s. The macro?s listed at the above link do not work, but I
> have them available within a DropBox<
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wq1wbhiaqj11onl/AADMBJsKX73D7weWdg_iVcW7a?dl=0>.
> I?ve found that math terms over 3 syllables can be problematic for
> macros?or maybe it?s just my pronunciation that?s horrible?
> Benetech?s Math Cloud:
> http://benetech.org/our-programs/literacy/born-accessible/mathml-cloud/
>
> - Create accessible math using LaTeX. Provides 3 different
> outputs. (MathJax, MathML, SVG with Alt Text)
> Best,
>
> Joshua Hori
>
>
> From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu]
> On Behalf Of KRISTA L. GREEAR
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 5:10 PM
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network <
> athen-list at u.washington.edu<mailto:athen-list at u.washington.edu>>
> Subject: [Athen] the math accessibility guru's have spoken
>
> Below is a compilation of responses to 5 questions that I posed to the
> listserv about math accessibility last week. I received a handful of
> responses and copied/pasted their comments with virtually no editing. They
> are in no particular order. A 6th and 7th question was asked which I did my
> best to respond. The questions are identified as a heading 1 with the
> responses in bulleted form underneath. Attached is a word doc version as
> well.
>
> Many thanks to the brave and kind folks who shared their knowledge!
>
> Why does LaTeX not work with adaptive technology?
>
> ? I'm attaching a LaTeX, MathML tools for creating accessible
> documents guide, and here is the author's webpage:
> https://www.csun.edu/~hcmth008/
>
> ? My guess is that screen readers have been designed to interpret
> the HTML markup syntax, and have not yet have the market demand to build a
> parser for LaTeX. To dig deeper, I suspect it would be very challenging
> for screen readers to distinguish between two sets of markup grammar, and
> to be able to interpret substitution macros in LaTeX.
>
> ? LaTeX is a programming language for typesetting documents and is
> presented in a text format. A person can work in a LaTeX editor and the
> text content will be read, but it functions like code. If you understand
> the code, then you will understand the equation. It's a bit like looking at
> HTML code and being able to envision the web page. So, if you are
> interacting with the code view, then screen-readers can read the text
> string of a LaTeX equation. When you use LaTeX, you are providing specific
> instructions for content (e.g., text, equations, etc.) to be rendered
> visually in a specific manner. Once a LaTeX file is compiled and printed,
> you are no longer dealing with LaTeX content.
>
> ? There has been some working going on in the UK that may help
> answer your questions. There is a publication from 2012
> http://www.mathcentre.ac.uk/resources/uploaded/inclusivecurricula.pdf
> that might be useful. The articles on starting on page 19 may be useful as
> they explain how to blind students developed a system of reading LaTeX in
> a pretty raw form as a reading medium instead of braille. They considered
> this the quickest route to access maths. But these were very talented
> mathematicians who started to develop this technique before the graduated
> school. The advice we give to VI mathematicians keen to study it at college
> is to learn LaTeX as soon as possible.
>
> ? Some thoughts on your questions. The main reason that LaTeX is a
> difficult format to convert from into one that works with assistive
> technology is that it is an unstructured. That is there are no semantics
> within the maths notation and it is possible to create a document without
> any structure. The other problem is that anyone can create their own LaTeX
> macros and can use a range of packages/templates used to compile the LaTeX
> into other formats. This has a huge impact on how easy it is to convert
> LaTeX into another format. Emma Cliffe at the University of Bath is the
> expert in the UK on this area. She had a project in 2012 to look at the
> process of converting LaTeX into accessible formats -
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/study/mash/maths-access/overview/index.html - and
> she is currently working on a project to produce an up-to-date databased on
> the best techniques. I (Dr Abi James) am going to talk a bit about this at
> Accessing Higher Ground. Currently her team prefer Pla!
> sTeX as a conversion route http://plastex.sourceforge.net/.
>
> How would you explain professor about how to make LaTeX accessible? (aka
> is the only option to turn into MathML and use it in a word document or
> with HTML)?
>
> ? In certain LMS (e.g., D2L, Canvas), the equation editor includes
> LaTeX as one of the input methods.
>
> ? Some students who are familiar and/or literate in LaTeX may
> prefer to use a LaTeX file directly as the student would be working with
> the language directly. I worked with a few students who preferred this
> interaction as they had access to the actual equation code. Further, there
> were several majors in which students were expected to be literate in
> LaTeX, regardless of disability. It was just how that academic community
> communicated.
>
> ? LaTeX serves an input format (essentially) and as such is much
> more compact and easier to understand than MathML. However, it was not
> intended to be an output format and provide the semantic structure of math
> content - that's a role MathML provides. LaTeX was intended for authoring
> documents so as to then print them out in an accurate manner.
>
> ? If the student is not familiar with LaTeX and prefers to use an
> HTML or MS Word format (depending on the preferred AT), then you will need
> to jump through a few steps. If you want to use MS Word with NVDA, then
> MathType is the easiest tool to use to copy and paste LaTeX into MS Word
> and use MathType to convert these to math objects. Alternatively, if you
> want to use HTML, then you can embed LaTeX math equations in an HTML file
> and use MathJax to convert the LaTeX into MathML content.
>
> What do you use to go from a LaTeX-based document to a MathML one?
>
> ? A handful of converters exists from a quick Internet search.
> Would anyone share their experience about these converters?
>
> ? You could use MathJax or MathType as conversion tools. MathJax
> if you are dealing with web pages and MathType if you are dealing with MS
> Word. There may be others, but these are the two I was most familiar with
> during production.
>
> Do you know of any updates about making math accessible within a PDF?
>
> ? To my knowledge, MathML with Word or HTML is the best option.
>
> ? I believe MathML is supposed to be part of the next PDF/UA
> specification. I have heard rumors of PDF documents with accessible math
> equations, but have not seen one yet. Of note is that even if MathML
> becomes part of the PDF/UA specification, AT will still need to do some
> work to support such implementations.
>
> If you got to stand in front of all math faculty at your campus, what
> would you want to share with them?
>
> ? My advice to STEM persons would be: if they save .tex documents
> as .pdf, keep the original LaTeX source files in case an accommodation for
> a screen reader user is needed.
>
> ? This may be a good resource for STEM faculty - it's a "tex"
> accessibility forum<
> http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/accessibility>
>
> ? Math & Science Accessibility<
> https://www.pcc.edu/resources/instructional-support/access/math.html>
>
> ? Math Accessibility Study<
> http://www.pcc.edu/resources/instructional-support/access/Math-Accessibility.html
> >
>
> ? While I think there has been some progress in terms of math
> accessibility, I don't think there is one "great" solution as it depends on
> what AT a student is using to interact with math content. In many cases,
> there is some level of alternate format conversion involved. That said,
> what I think does tend to work well at this time is the following:
>
> o a) Using MS Word+MathType to author math content. This does give a lot
> of flexibility in terms of interacting with the content directly or
> converting it into another format (e.g., HTML, DAISY, etc.). A student can
> use NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to interact directly with math equations in MS
> Word or the student can use the Central Access Reader to read text/math
> content.
>
> o b) However, math faculty tend to prefer LaTeX and so the option is to
> provide access to the .tex files so these may be accessed directly or
> converted by an alt format team into the desired format.
>
> o c) If I had an audience, I may even go so far as to say that the
> hand-scribbled and scanned PDF solution sets are really not helpful if
> trying to convert into an alternate format (you know, the solution sets in
> which it looks like a felt-tip marker was used upside-down and in a mirror
> to write out the answers). I'm not saying every math professor does it, but
> there are certainly a few...it's just painful for everyone.
>
> An additional question is how STEM professors are editing their documents
> nowadays. I can see the obvious benefits of the typesetting LaTeX in the
> days of command line, plus a shallow learning curve for maths and computer
> science experts. What are the rest of STEM faculty using -- those who
> don't need complex equations everyday and don't have the need to learn a
> coding language?
>
> ? I know that faculty on the UW campus are using the built-in
> Equation Editor on MS Office. Very few are using MathType. Otherwise, they
> use LaTeX.
>
> ? This is the response I got from one math professor when asked
> ?Do you know what mathML is?? ? ?I know about MathML. I have never used it.
> I do not know of any mathematician using it. Perhaps some mathematicians
> use it but I have never encountered it online. It is possible that some
> pages use MathML and I am not aware of it. MathJax is quite popular. I use
> it on my own personal Web site and it is used by some of the major
> societies and companies involved in math publications.??
>
> I'm very interested in educating our math department about accessibility.
> Are you trying to get faculty to create math accessibly from the beginning?
> As opposed to the disability service office converting it when needed?
>
> ? Yes, I am trying to help everyone on campus create more
> accessible born materials. This is, obviously, the work of 162 lifetimes.
> However, I am realistic enough to know that the ?convert it only when
> needed? philosophy will still exist for some time. Until we can get
> knowledge/tools/simple processes regarding accessibility to layman, we
> accessibility professionals all have great job security :]
>
> Krista Greear
> University of Washington | Disability Resources for Students
> Accessible Text & Technology Manager
> 011 Mary Gates Hall | Box 352808
> Seattle, WA 98195-2808 | disability.uw.edu/<
> http://disability.uw.edu/%22%20%5Ct%20%22_blank>
> [ada-banner]
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151020/9c1fdb20/attachment-0001.html
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: image001.png
> Type: image/png
> Size: 18769 bytes
> Desc: image001.png
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151020/9c1fdb20/attachment-0001.png
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:39:33 -0700
> From: Ganga Harrison <gdharris at ucsc.edu>
> To: athen-list at u.washington.edu
> Subject: [Athen] DAISY format and players
> Message-ID:
> <CABa=b+-j8CYoqVjoYSK-+QxMtA2SK5gw51Hx=
> SH+Z0RYDkbqZQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Could anyone tell me where I can find out more about DIASY players and how
> to create .daisy format?
>
> We currently make Mp3's using Kurzweil and would like to find a better
> audio on the go option for students.
>
> --
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ganga Harrison
> Accessible Technology Coordinator
> Disability Resource Center
> 831-459-4573
> gdharris at ucsc.edu <idees at ucsc.edu>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151021/a37f7793/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:57:31 +0000
> From: John Elmer <JElmer at vcccd.edu>
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
> <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] DAISY format and players
> Message-ID:
> <
> E26567399CC30147A525B0B4E05C04C6011BEB4732 at D2010MAILDB02.ad.vcccd.edu>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> As you probably already know, for books available through Learning Ally,
> they have apps available for both Apple and Adroid mobile devices.
>
> John
>
> From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu]
> On Behalf Of Ganga Harrison
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:40 AM
> To: athen-list at u.washington.edu
> Subject: [Athen] DAISY format and players
>
> Could anyone tell me where I can find out more about DIASY players and how
> to create .daisy format?
>
> We currently make Mp3's using Kurzweil and would like to find a better
> audio on the go option for students.
>
> --
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ganga Harrison
> Accessible Technology Coordinator
> Disability Resource Center
> 831-459-4573
> gdharris at ucsc.edu<mailto:idees at ucsc.edu>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151021/d5c61101/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:00:07 +0000
> From: Joseph Polizzotto <jpolizzotto at taftcollege.edu>
> To: Access Technology Higher Education Network
> <athen-list at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Athen] DAISY format and players
> Message-ID:
> <
> DM2PR02MB1337B32256C6AE3FAAE6D199BC380 at DM2PR02MB1337.namprd02.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Ganga,
>
> The DAISY Consortium has many resources on their website:
>
> Software Playback Tools (Daisy Consortium Website)<
> http://www.daisy.org/tools/splayback>
>
> One method to create DAISY books is by using the Save as Daisy add-in for
> MS Word. The Tobi and Obi tools are open-source conversion tools that you
> might check out, too. Here is a list of other conversion tools:
>
> Daisy Conversion Tools<http://www.daisy.org/tools/conversion>
>
> There are also some YouTube videos out there by the DAISY Consortium that
> you might find helpful:
>
> YouTube Videos about DAISY<
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIR-_tl6Yyc&list=PL2F325B4A7289307B>
>
>
> Joseph Polizzotto
> Associate Professor, Learning Skills
> High Tech Center Access Specialist
> Taft College
> 29 Cougar Court
> Taft CA 93268
> 661-763-7977 (work)
> 408-504-7404 (cell)
> 661-763-7758 (fax)
> jpolizzotto at taftcollege.edu
>
>
>
> From: athen-list [mailto:athen-list-bounces at mailman13.u.washington.edu]
> On Behalf Of Ganga Harrison
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 11:40 AM
> To: athen-list at u.washington.edu
> Subject: [Athen] DAISY format and players
>
> Could anyone tell me where I can find out more about DIASY players and how
> to create .daisy format?
>
> We currently make Mp3's using Kurzweil and would like to find a better
> audio on the go option for students.
>
> --
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ganga Harrison
> Accessible Technology Coordinator
> Disability Resource Center
> 831-459-4573
> gdharris at ucsc.edu<mailto:idees at ucsc.edu>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151021/6e2f3a60/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> athen-list mailing list
> athen-list at mailman13.u.washington.edu
> http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/athen-list
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of athen-list Digest, Vol 117, Issue 18
> *******************************************
>
--
Sincerely,
Ganga Harrison
Accessible Technology Coordinator
Disability Resource Center
831-459-4573
gdharris at ucsc.edu <idees at ucsc.edu>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/pipermail/athen-list/attachments/20151021/03468b1a/attachment.html>
More information about the athen-list
mailing list